InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 31535 times:
Better ATC AI. Easy enough - even if I have to subcontract and design it for MS myself. (Give me a bit, though... I have enough on my plate doing Airline Traffic Manager.)
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
Flinhion757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 198 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 31532 times:
Which hasnt improved too much in FSX. I can only hope that in future versions of Flight Simulator, there will be a better ATC which speaks faster, gives better vectors to approach.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 31491 times:
The big problem with the ATC is that it doesn't completely do the seperation right... which is why I have had many an AI aircraft blow by me within 100' while I was on final. ATC AI is very difficult to program - believe me. It would take a concerted effort to do so. Also, that means it would chew up some serious processor time. The other issue with ATC AI is that it is hard to compartmentalize it into the block zones that they use for processing the AI aircraft right now. If you were to have a back up due to congestion in one of the pre-calculated sectors, it would begin to start spilling over into other sectors nearby - which needs more processing, etc. You run the danger of slowing the machine down or having to get to a point of ignoring issues completely just to keep up. It's a rough problem to fix.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
JamesJimlb From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1010 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 31463 times:
i'd say better planes, panels, sounds and scenery and more realistic ATC one that sounds like a human would be nice.
also ground crew and gates that move and stuff, but not like in FSX but like in AES when they tell you they are begining push back and stuff.
Gift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 587 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 31438 times:
ATC, the ability to be put into holds when there is a lot of traffic, why should I go ahead of the AI, we all have a schedule to keep. lol. I think FS9, would be perfect if it had better ATC abilities, also it should increase distances when there is bad weather, etc, etc...
Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 6): Also, that means it would chew up some serious processor time.
I absolutly agree 100% the problems improved ATC could cause, however I'm sure someone can figure a way around it.
Phatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1057 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 31424 times:
A significantly better AI ATC program is needed. More runways (crosswinds included) functioning, [b]holding patterns[b], [b]separation[b], SID, & STARs are what is mostly needed for now. No more of this FL & DL formation flying over ATL.
CptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 616 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 31418 times:
I'd love to see more improvement in the environment and textures as well as the ATC and AI. Other games (not necessarily flight sims) seem to have much better "worlds" that look much more realistic. FSX was a great improvement, especially with cloud layers and such, but it still doesn't give me the sensation that I'm truly looking out of a cockpit window. I understand that the FS world is MUCH bigger than any other game out there, but some simple improvements in the look of the sky and the ground would be great.
The other thing I think would be amazing is to have the ability to make and airline and fly for them. Go throught the whole deal of getting a flightplan, weather briefings, dispatch sheets, etc. Maybe even throw in some AI passengers that you can actually see instead of having to pretend like FS Pax. Put more of the actual indoor airline/airport environment, the stuff that doesn't directly have to do with flying airplanes, into it. Anyone ever played SimCopter? Something along those lines, with the hangar and a home base and all that jazz, tailored to the airline/commercial aviation setting instead of a rescue helicopter operation, and a little more advanced...just a little I always thought SimCopter would be the most amazing game ever if the flight characteristics were realistic.
Oh, and realistic, visual damage along the lines of CFS. I never understood why that wasn't put in FS. Another great game...which I think still trumps FS9 and somewhat FSX in terms of realism. Definitely is better than FS9 as far as the environment (aside from airports) goes....and that was a game that was made several years ago...
QF108 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 31416 times:
Im 100% agreeing with ATC and AI, this one's probably no chance of happening but the ATC and AI planes have the accents unique to country and Airline. eg the Australian Airport controllers have Australian accents, Air New Zealand pilots have New Zealand accents etc, and JFK ATC are really short and sharp with everybody and always yell at Iberia AI traffic (just like they have done once of twice in real life)
Agree also with a better ground environment, baggage carts, push back trucks and people at the ramp all would be good.
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 31413 times:
Quoting QF108 (Reply 11): this one's probably no chance of happening but the ATC and AI planes have the accents unique to country and Airline. eg the Australian Airport controllers have Australian accents, Air New Zealand pilots have New Zealand accents etc, and JFK ATC are really short and sharp with everybody and always yell at Iberia AI traffic (just like they have done once of twice in real life)
Next to impossible for now. They would have to be pre-recorded... every single phrase in every single dialect and accent. Not a chance they would use that much space for voice assets. Compared to other things they need to focus on, it really doesn't add much to the experience of flying - which is what the game/sim is about.
It's like when I got the suggestion for my airline management simulation that players should be able to select what sort of of coffee is on board. This isn't a Starbuck's sim, this is about airline management. You know, routes, schedules, fares, delays? *sigh*
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 31382 times:
Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 13): Well, with quad core just arrived, I don't think It'll be a problem in a few years.
Trust me... this is a conversation we game developers have every single year. "How much processor time are you allowed for AI?" The answer usually is something to the effect of "whatever the graphics guys leave us". Remember, the more polys (polygons) you render - i.e. more buildings, planes, scenery, etc, - the more processor you are using. Simply adding better trees makes the poly count explode. You want more "stuff" on the ground? That's more processor that is used up. All I'm saying is that MS and other game developers are going to continue to push the visual aspect hard - which doesn't leave a lot for the other stuff.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8399 posts, RR: 41 Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 31374 times:
Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 14): All I'm saying is that MS and other game developers are going to continue to push the visual aspect hard - which doesn't leave a lot for the other stuff.
True but the problem is that so many judge sims purely on the graphics. How many times have we heard "judging by the screenshots, it's no better than the previous version" or "I don't like add-on aircraft XX because it doesn't look quite right on the outside, even if it has the most realistic cockpit, systems and flight dynamics ever"?
I'd be quite happy if the visuals were more or less frozen for the next version and the effort was put into making other aspects more realistic, as you say.
I agree but there are some who don't care about that if the external texture isn't perfect. I wouldn't want the external model to look ridiculous but I do give it a fairly low priority. After all, what's realistic about looking at the outside of your aircraft while you're flying at 30,000 ft?
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 31315 times:
Believe me... I agree with you on that. A lot of game programmers do as well. After all, read the 2nd paragraph on this page of our web site.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 40 Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 31314 times:
I think they should just build in a few default planes, and just make a great platform for addon developers. Because the addon developers are going to go in and build the airports, scenery, and airplanes from scratch, and allot of near perfect realism to the actual airport or aircraft, and alot of the times it's free. They should just lay off the visuals and let the addon developers handle that, they just use there time writting the software platform.
-Matt
Line Technician Safety 101: Never approach a moving propeller...
Agreed. That's another gripe we often hear - that every airliner should be included and that every airport should be modelled in detail in the base package.
Why should the development be bogged down in order to have everyone's favourite aircraft? The default aircraft aren't particularly good anyway. I bought the PMDG 737 and 747 and never use the default aircraft now and I'll get a good Airbus model if and when it becomes available. That's all I need. As mentioned, there are plenty of free offerings for people who want other aircraft of equal quality to the default aircraft, and often better quality.
For FS9, I bought FS Global (which, I suppose, would be desirable in the base package but is an area which was improved in FSX), a couple of Megascenery titles, Switzerland Pro and Scotflight's scenery for my area. If the base package modelled the whole world as well as those, it would take far longer to develop, cost much more and I'd only use a fraction of it.
All that's needed in the base package is a good framework for development, good general scenery depiction (leave it as it is in FSX for now), "reasonable" airport detail (with more detail at a few major airports in each region) and a few aircraft for people to fly "out of the box".
That would leave for room for improvements in, for example, ATC, AI traffic, HF comms, realistic oceanic routing, etc.
QFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 31209 times:
So much of what you guys are complaining about can be fixed with 3rd party programs and if you need it so badly I'm sure you can cough up a little for it.
The reasons MS doesn't include real AI have been discussed here multiple times. There are many options for getting real AI, Ultimate Traffic (payware .exe), Adobe Traffic (freeware .exe), or do all the hard stuff yourself.
The ATC can be partially fixed with Radar Contact, although the speech isn't as fluent as FS it still wallops FS in reality. You can do emergencies, STAR's, SID's, diversions all kinds of stuff.
Panels and planes can be fixed by either buying payware add-ons or freeware stuff.
As David said, FS would be much more expensive and take much longer to develop if everything you complained about was put in the base package, then you'd complain about that.
25 David L: Good point. That's something I always meant to look at but kept forgetting. Thanks for the reminder.
26 InnocuousFox: Yes, but is the traffic control part of ATC correct? Does it direct the traffic properly to keep the spacing, etc.?
27 David L: Obviously I don't speak from experience but, according to the website, it certainly attempts that and more... "AI interactions including: Ground traf
28 Tavong: I really would like to see a FS that doesn´t eat my computer or obligues me to buy a top new one if i want to use it. Gus SKBO
29 David L: But they're never going to release a version that zips along on the average PC with all sliders maxed out, otherwise those with newer machines would
30 Bimmerkid19: Without a doubt.. HF Radios for use on Transoceanic flights, that would make International Flights much more interesting and realistic!
31 Tavong: In fact you´re rigth. Anyway for example when FS2004 was launched almost any computer that could run FS2002 was able to upgrade without many hardwar
32 David L: Yes, but I really did need to upgrade my PC to switch from FS2002 to FS2004. I made a mess of that. What I really meant was that Vista, DX10 and dual
33 Jamesbuk: 1) No AI 2) No default aircraft 3) Nothing in Fs that can be made better by other people. 4) Good ATC 5) Better afcads 6) Make it easier to install fr
34 David L: I think you need a few, such as a light single, a helicopter, a regional /executive jet and a large airliner so you can start using it straight away.
35 Jamesbuk: ah sorry what i also forgot to say is release the game to developers a few months in advance, so get Posky a copy, give PMDG, LDS, PSS etc a copy. So
36 InnocuousFox: You see, I'm a purist. I want the ATC AI to monitor the traffic like a real ATC (person). I want the commands issued appropriately. I want true vecto
37 David L: I'm getting about 10 - 15 fps in the Cessna in FSX, which is playable. I'm sure it would struggle with the PMDG 747 and I'd need to upgrade but I was
38 GAIsweetGAI: A few things I can think of: - Significantly better weather - The ability to insert one-way taxiways in AFCADs - And to echo David L, the ability to b
39 DRAIGONAIR: I would love to see the whole world in photo realistic textures, as in satelite ground textures with tree etc on it. TileProxy does that for FSX now b
40 InnocuousFox: They need to simply work with Google Earth or something to that effect. What are the odds of being able to dynamically load the Google Earth terrain a
41 Jamesbaldwyn: I would like more care put into airfields as my local EGSP is just a line of grass in FS, I had to buy scenery to make it enjoyable to fly.
42 David L: But it's free so people have the choice of whether or not to use it. Including it in the base package would force people to use it, even if their har
44 David L: You're right, there's nothing there. But just think how much time and effort would be required to add detail to all airports of that size. They can g
45 Jamesbaldwyn: Well a taxiway and a building at every airport would be fine. But I appreciate that It would take a lot of effort.
46 Jetmatt777: Trust me it is playable. My PC sucks big time, I get 4-10 FPS on the ground, and get 10-18FPS in the air IN FS9. And I successfully complete flights.
47 Jamesbaldwyn: I know somebody who has similar frames in FS8
48 FighterPilot: One little thing I would like to see is working windshield wipers. Yeah it's not much, but it's one of those things that adds to the realism of the Si
49 David L: It can be done - PMDG's 747 has working wipers, though they only work in one of the cockpit views - 2D or VC, I can't remember which. Still, at least
51 Juanchopancho: Obviously you've never heard of Tileproxy. Already been done.
52 SJC4Me: Turbulence sounds - i.e. cabin shaking noises when the sim detects turbulence.
53 David L: Fair enough - it's a while since I used it. The point is that FS2004 already allowed working wipers to be modelled. First of all, it was InnocuousFox
54 Jamesbaldwyn: :D I would never be able to put a sentance together like that! Well thats Active Camera 2004
55 QFA380: Today I thought of one thng that would be really cool if implemented. My idea is for the person playing FS to be controlling a person. So you start FS
56 David L: Hmm... I just wouldn't be interested in that. I want to "fly" a plane, not control a person. It sounds more like an idea for The Sims, or something l
57 QFA380: ...but you may be wrong You say like The Sims, was also thinking that MS and EA could team up to make this. You would have the option to disable the
58 David L: Because I don't know much about those types of game. But adding an unrealistic feature that would take a lot of resources just doesn't make sense to
59 CptSpeaking: Kinda something like this...except this would be for the FO... Your CptSpeaking
60 Coal: Perhaps because you are not actually in a cockpit looking out the window? Just a thought. Cheers Coal
61 David L: I'm not quite sure what your point is. We're discussing ways FS might be improved. Giving a better impression that you're actually in a cockpit looki
62 Gift4tbone: I just had a thought, an addon that allows you to comunicate with the airline's ops, to find out the gate assignment, I guess this goes along with usi
63 InnocuousFox: There's always a way to achieve that. Spend some money...
64 Jamesbaldwyn: YOU HEAR US MICROSOFT!! After all, we are the pros
66 N710PS: Aside from what everyone else has s aid, active helicopter traffic and not just choppers flying like planes etc.
67 SkyTeam777: Dear Santa, I would like.... - MD-80s for all default airlines and the Soar MD-80s to be in the most recent bright orange color scheme instead of the
68 N710PS: I got rid of all the airline AI that is default at one point and got every airline I could flying around. I also have a good amount of armed forces ar
69 GoingAround: Why? Default aircraft are pretty shocking regarding quality compared to addons. That one thing that irritates me about people asking for improvements
70 Burkhard: There you are absolutely right. I would consider the complexity to have an ATC programmed that is somehow realistic to be many times bigger than what
71 David L: I don't want to wait much longer for the next version and pay much more so that everyone else's favourite aircraft and airlines are included. Give me
72 GoingAround: How about a better MD-80? With REAL airline schemes available for download? Clicky (Basepack, download additional liveries through avsim.com) How abo
73 Acey: The Opensky 340 is absolutely terrible. Rotating at anything slower than 200 knots is impossible.
74 GoingAround: I've never had that problem, have you checked your fuel/payload settings? The external model is very detailed, and is defiantly the best A340-200/300
75 SkyTeam777: I find the statement above quite insulting to my intelligence, as a human being. Of course: - I know that these URLs exist ... - Am a registered memb
76 InnocuousFox: Well then FS should already cost $100+. Careful what you wish for - someone's got to pay the developers.
77 Acey: Thanks for talking to me like I haven't been playing Flight Sim for the last five years. In all seriousness, I've tried, and the POSKY planes are jus
78 GoingAround: I wasn't trying to patronize you, but I haven't had this problem with any of my POSKY A340's, and that is the only reason I can think of that could c
79 SkyTeam777: While I appreciate your helpfulness, I couldn't help to think that this was directed at me (as I am sure others reading this thread who haven't heard
80 GoingAround: Ahh, now you point it out it did seem a bit like that Sorry, Best regards, Alex
81 AirNick: Anything that will raise my fps. Currently, at my absolute best, with everything at either none, or minimal setting, i have 3.5fps - I think a new com
82 InnocuousFox: So what you are saying is that you would like the next version of FS to contain a new computer in the box?
83 BrianW999: One thing I'd like to see ? Especially in airliners, a co-pilot sitting next to me. Even better if they were to be animated in the VC view. You'll see
84 RB211: Major Interstates with interchanges and traffic. For example , I-85, I-285, &I-75 all run around KATL. In real life that's alot of traffic but on FS,
85 GAIsweetGAI: Some more I can think of: -better water dynamics: ie, water acts as water, flows down rivers, reacts to temperature and wind, etc. -in the better AI/A
86 InnocuousFox: Speaking of wx, do 9 or X have actual buildups of T-storms floating around? Also on WX, I want to see the weather changes in the distance. Now, wx is
87 Jamesbaldwyn: Sorry to bump this topic but I had an idea strike me. I would like to see fs that made compleatly random failures at compleatly diffrent times. Insted
88 Jamesbuk: Yeh I agree that would be pretty cool. Just out of interest is there a third party add-on that does this (apart from Fs-passengers) but the thing is,
89 Jamesbaldwyn: Well it could be more common in older aircraft where failures were a more common site. But yes I agree with you're ATC point. All Microsoft have done
90 Babybus: I'd like to see either a movable gate that connects when the plane arrives or put airstairs on the aircraft. When you park up a 747 there is a serious
91 GAIsweetGAI: Another thought: ATC assigning departure runways not according to where you are on the airport property but according to your destination, in the even
92 Jamesbuk: You don't have to wait... I believe thats in FSX. Yeh that would be useful..! Wow really thats it? that sucks ass!! Rgds --James--
93 B727-200: Proper utilisation of multicore processors so that i don't feel like I waste $$$ on my new "FSX" machine The rest of the list is too exhaustive and un
95 AllegiantAir: I just got back into playing FS9, so here is my wishlist!! 1) When I fly in other countries on my FS9, all the aircraft have US registrations. I'm not
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