Sponsor Message:
Aviation Hobby Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
FSX ILS Approach - Coming Down Too Early  
User currently offlineGenius12 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 197 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 29873 times:

I don't know why this is happening - I'm using the default FSX B737-800, flying from Southampton (UK) to Bristol (UK). Everything is perfect up until about 3 miles from the runway at Bristol.

I engage onto the approach in good time with the flaps set at the correct intervals, and then gear down. The ILS lines up perfectly with the runway heading. But then at about 2-3 miles from the runway, the plane is too low and touches down!

The ILS system seems to be bringing the plane down too early. Like I say, the heading is spot on though.

Please can anyone help with this problem? It happens at any airport I fly to.

Thanks.  Smile

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineScoliodon From India, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 29865 times:

Hi Genius12,

The APP mode in autopilot locks only the heading, tracking the runway centerline. It does not manage glideslope info.
So, it takes care of horizontal orientation, vertical orientation is still in your hand.
So you have to increase/decrease power as required to maintain your glidepath.

Good luck!


Regards,
Balki



JFK-LGA-EWR-DTW-IND-PHX-CLE-SFO-LAS-SEA-ORD-MCO-MIA-DFW-ATL-CDG-FRA-BOM-MAA-DEL-TRZ-DXB-CLT-CVG-DEN-MSP
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 29844 times:



Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 1):
It does not manage glideslope info.

It does on my FSX! Actually, the 737 flies pretty much the same as the STEC 55-X Autopilot I've used... looks different, but the functions are pretty much the same.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29831 times:



Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 1):
The APP mode in autopilot locks only the heading, tracking the runway centerline. It does not manage glideslope info.

It's supposed to. Using the approach mode on the autopilot should track the localizer (not the heading) and the glideslope of the ILS, once each is intercepted.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 29802 times:



Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 1):
The APP mode in autopilot locks only the heading, tracking the runway centerline. It does not manage glideslope info.

As others have said, APPR mode will track the localiser and glideslope. It's the LOC mode that will only track the localiser.


User currently offlineGenius12 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 29789 times:

Thanks for your replies.

So if approach mode does control vertical as well as horizontal, why am I coming down too early?

Thanks.


User currently offlineScoliodon From India, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 29786 times:

Thanks for the clarification guys!
I said that due to my FS2004 exp. with GPS autopilot APP mode enabled.

Or is there a way around there too?



JFK-LGA-EWR-DTW-IND-PHX-CLE-SFO-LAS-SEA-ORD-MCO-MIA-DFW-ATL-CDG-FRA-BOM-MAA-DEL-TRZ-DXB-CLT-CVG-DEN-MSP
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 29782 times:



Quoting Scoliodon (Reply 6):
Or is there a way around there too?

If you have the GPS linked to the autopilot, then you will not get vertical guidance, unless you input a lower altitude into the autopilot and adjust the vertical speed yourself. De-selecting the GPS as your navigation source will allow you to navigate using ground based navaids.


User currently offlineGenius12 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 29765 times:

I think I've solved it! I was using the autothrottle for too long, I think. Switiching it off about 3miles away from the runway and then manually controlling worked - I've just tried Glasgow-Edinburgh as a test route, and I touched down perfectly using ILS at the end of a IFR flight.

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 29753 times:



Quoting Genius12 (Reply 8):
I think I've solved it! I was using the autothrottle for too long, I think.

Hmm... I'm sure I often left the auto-throttle on down to about a couple of hundred feet and it worked fine. I haven't "flown" a 737 for a couple of years, though, and that was the PMDG one. I guess the default 737 auto-throttle is "a bit dodgy", then.  Smile


User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 29688 times:

A couple note-worthy things about FS ILS approaches and autopilots/throttles.

First, in FS, in order to intercept the glideslope, you need to intercept from below. If you come down onto the glideslope, the autopilot will not intercept it, so make sure you're down in plenty of time.

In FS default aircraft, there is no autoland functionality. So don't expect the aircraft to flare and rollout on its own. Instead, it'll just drop right onto the runway, which in a transport category aircraft will generally be in the range of 6-700 fpm. Ouch!!  eek  Autoland capability is possible in several add-on aircraft including PMDG's 737 and 747, Level-D Simulation's 763ER, and the PSS Airbus series.

Also in FS default aircraft, the autothrottles operate completely separate from the autopilot, so if you do leave it on for the approach, be sure to flip it off before you get to the flare, otherwise it'll keep on trucking along at approach speed. In add-on aircraft with the autoland capability, the autothrottles will pull the levers to idle when the flare mode activates.

Hope this information helps solve your troubles...happy flying and Merry Christmas!!

Your CptSpeaking santahat 



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineGenius12 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 29653 times:

Thanks everyone, all your help much appreciated.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29626 times:



Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 10):
In add-on aircraft with the autoland capability, the autothrottles will pull the levers to idle when the flare mode activates.

Except the Airbus, which requires you to bring them to idle yourself (move them back one detent from CLB to IDLE). If you are a retard and forget, the plane will remind you of that.  Wink

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 29621 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 12):

Except the Airbus, which requires you to bring them to idle yourself (move them back one detent from CLB to IDLE). If you are a retard and forget, the plane will remind you of that. Wink

Actually in real life, the Airbus (and Boeing) models are supposed to do this automatically, in case the pilot is a "retard". I've never tested it in my add on's though (PMDG 747, Level D 767, PSS 777, Wilco Airbus), as I'm afraid to botch my flights!


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 29613 times:



Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 12):

Except the Airbus, which requires you to bring them to idle yourself (move them back one detent from CLB to IDLE). If you are a retard and forget, the plane will remind you of that. Wink

Actually in real life, the Airbus (and Boeing) models are supposed to do this automatically, in case the pilot is a "retard".

It's my understanding that the Airbus auto-thrust will bring the engines to idle during the flare but the levers have to be moved so that the engines don't spool up again when the auto-thrust disengages after landing. I know it seems like a Bad Idea to some but the only people who seem to have a problem with it are those who've never flown a FBW Airbus.  Smile


User currently offlineGenius12 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 29555 times:

For a B737-800, is the following landing checklist about right?

When cleared for ILS landing: Flaps 1 step, Speed 200kts, Engage onto approach
When 10nm distance: Flaps 2 more steps
When 09nm distance: Flaps 1 more step, Speed 180kts
When 08nm distance: Flaps 1 more step, Gear down
When 07nm distance: Flaps 1 more step, Speed 160kts
When 06nm distance: Flaps 1 more step
When 05nm distance: Flaps fully down
When at 300feet: Autopilot off, Autothrottle off, Engines idle
When touchdown: Airbrakes on/spoiler up, Reverse thrust, Brakes
When speed 50kts: Engines idle (reverse thrust off), Flaps up, Airbrakes off/spoiler down

Cheers  Smile


User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29533 times:



Quoting Genius12 (Reply 15):

Your distances look about right, but honestly, I fly approaches mainly based on the "feel" of it while taking into account speed limitations on the flaps and gear. If you're flying an ILS, you should be totally configured by the time you intercept the glideslope so all you have to do when you intercept is fly it down.

I wouldn't pull the throttles back until about 50 feet or so, at which point I would also start a smooth round out and flare. If you pull the throttles at 300 feet, you'll have a hard time making the runway. Also, as part of your approach checklist, I'd arm the auto-spoilers (Shift + /), which extends them automatically when the wheels touch the ground. That way, all you need to do when you touch down is apply the brakes (unless you've used the autobrakes) and reverse thrust.

Happy Flying!



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29492 times:



Quoting Genius12 (Reply 15):
For a B737-800, is the following landing checklist about right?

Just a few corrections:

Quoting Genius12 (Reply 15):
When at 300feet: Autopilot off, Autothrottle off, Engines idle

I wouldn't pull the throttle back till 50ft AGL, if you wanna make the runway relatively smoothly

Quoting Genius12 (Reply 15):
When 05nm distance: Flaps fully down

Add in Vref speed, I find 135-145kts good depending on how heavy the airplane is

Quoting Genius12 (Reply 15):
When speed 50kts: Engines idle (reverse thrust off)

60kts to be picky  wink 



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineCumulonimbus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 29460 times:

LOL Land that bad boy like I do! manually :P

User currently offlineNwAflyer07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 29450 times:



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Reply 18):
LOL Land that bad boy like I do! manually :P

lol amen to that


User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 29388 times:

I find I adjust the landing sequence according to the airport, weather conditions and aicraft weight. On an ILS approach I normally start pulling the speed back and dropping flaps once vectored to the intercept, unless there is poor weather/vis and/or mountains in the vicinity, in which I will bring the speed back much earlier.

One thing to make sure of if you are flying an ILS approach is to check that you have switched the NAV/GPS switch back to NAV. When I have been lazy and flown a leg on GPS I have sometimes forgot to switch back to NAV for landing and ended up not making the runway...

B727-200.


User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 29385 times:



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Reply 18):
LOL Land that bad boy like I do! manually :P

Especially fun at Toncontin with the freeware scenery and accurate mesh.  Wink


User currently offlineCumulonimbus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 29378 times:



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
Especially fun at Toncontin with the freeware scenery and accurate mesh

hah hah My machine can handle it top of the line baby!


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic FSX ILS Approach - Coming Down Too Early
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Aviation hobby related posts only.
  • Back all your opinions with facts.
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
FSX - Innsbruck Approach Mission Problem posted Mon Feb 4 2008 14:29:05 by NicoEDDF
ILS//APPROACH Problems On Fs posted Mon Apr 30 2007 09:08:08 by Detroitflyer
NRT FSX ILS Misalligned? posted Sun Apr 1 2007 01:59:10 by Malaysia
Flight Simulator 2002 ILS Approach posted Fri Dec 17 2004 20:29:55 by Oliver18
Fs2002 Vectors You Too Early To Airport? posted Fri Jul 19 2002 23:21:15 by Cramos
ILS Approach Question posted Mon Apr 1 2002 20:33:36 by Hurricane
FS2000 And ILS Approach... posted Thu Jun 28 2001 06:37:26 by Crank
New Heathrow Scenery For FS9 & FSX Coming Soon! posted Fri Aug 31 2007 19:38:26 by BAW076
FSX Randomly Shutting Down/ Crashing posted Fri May 11 2007 01:23:15 by Ebs757
Problem: Too High On Final Approach posted Sun Jan 19 2003 14:21:13 by Manel

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format