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Goodbye Flight Simulator?  
User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1214 posts, RR: 8
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13524 times:
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Microsoft has reportedly pulled the plug on ACES studios, this may be the end of FS
http://iblueyonder.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/microsoft-shutters-aces/

Scooter01


"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13514 times:

Really ugly news. This means FSX will last until 2013 at least.

User currently offlineReguPilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 495 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 13491 times:

It means there is no more Flight Simulator! NOOOOOO!!
http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2009/01/the_end_of_an_e.shtml


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week ago) and read 13460 times:

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 2):
It means there is no more Flight Simulator! NOOOOOO!!

I'm actually kinda glad, if this is true. This will force whoever decided to buy or relive the franchise to do a major remake of the program. I find it pathetic even FSX still has some programming elements from FS98 and even earlier DOS versions of the simulator (i.e. BGL files). They really need to make a sim with X-plane realism but with the visual appeal of the FS franchise, which can still be much better. The only reason I like FS is that it is so customizable. Heck, my FS9 looks and performs waaay better than FSX.

[Edited 2009-01-23 09:41:04]

User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1296 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13380 times:

Even though ACES has been shut down this is simply a effort of MSFT to get things under one brand. Made little sense to keep the ACES name even though it was 100% owned by them.

Same thing happened to other smaller MSFT studios during better times. Indeed some did and will loose their jobs but others will continue to work for MSFT and on the same projects.

I dont worry too much since I've read that they will continue to develop fs one way or the other at MSFT.

Leo  Smile



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13223 times:

This might actually be a good thing. A different company like EA Games could hire these now former microsoft employees and continue the flight simulator game, sans the microsoft name. The game could be even better with more updates and expansion packs. Microsoft seemed to not really care a whole lot about the game anymore so someone like EA games taking over would be really interesting

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13192 times:

In reality, all MS did was the basic package.

I have add on sceneries, weather, aircraft, traffic and a lot of other things not done by MS that have made the sim a lot more then it was to start with.


User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13174 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):
A different company like EA Games could hire these now former microsoft employees and continue the flight simulator game, sans the microsoft name. The game could be even better with more updates and expansion packs.

That would be awesome.  thumbsup 

Anyway that's I got from Google News
PC Mag
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339520,00.asp

Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5522 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13094 times:

Oh well. I'm happy with my FS9. I probably won't get FSX, unless supercomputers become the norm and inexpensive. It'd be nice for someone to pick this up who has a tremendous passion for aviation and pays attention to details, such as air traffic control.

User currently offlineZappbrannigan From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12873 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
I find it pathetic even FSX still has some programming elements from FS98 and even earlier DOS versions of the simulator (i.e. BGL files).

I realised FSX was a bit of a half-baked effort when I found they'd blindly cut and pasted part of the help documentation from FS9 - including features which were present in FS9 but were removed from FSX (such as the ability to move the Tower position). Although I'm running FSX, and quite happy with how I have it set up, it does appear to be the Vista of the FS world - a heap of window dressing but no real core improvements when you get down to it.


User currently offlineNorthwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12859 times:

I'm disappointed to see that MSTS 2 was axed, for the now second time. The photos looked pretty good. Which leads me to:

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):

Never really thought of it that way; that is a really good point. I hope that in this case, is ACES is done for good, I hope that this can happen, and MSTS 2 can be finished, and MSFS actually becomes really good.


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12802 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
They really need to make a sim with X-plane realism but with the visual appeal of the FS franchise, which can still be much better. The only reason I like FS is that it is so customizable. Heck, my FS9 looks and performs waaay better than FSX.

Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 7):
That would be awesome. thumbsup

Anyway that's I got from Google News

God help us if that happens. EA Games are not a very promising prospect. And there would be NO addon support. It'd be locked up tight. There are opportunities in a stable platform for 4 or 5 years where developers will find out all the possibilities and push the platform to its limits. What is there now is very flexible.

[Edited 2009-01-26 02:42:31]

User currently offlineZappbrannigan From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12793 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 11):
Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

I've found X-Plane to be more accurate and realistic in the light aircraft world - and conversely, all the heavy jets I've seen on X-Plane have been pathetic compared to the likes of PMDG stuff for FS9/X. XP has some features that would enhance the heavy jet world in FS - such as sloping/uneven runways that the aircraft rides over nicely (I think strut compression might even be modelled) - you get a real sense of speed down the runway in XP, unlike the billiard-table runways in FS.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12672 times:

We are getting more information now. It looks like the ACES team management did not perform as expected. They could not produce the three projects ( TS2, FS11, ESP2 ) with the budget they got for it, and not with even delayed time schedules. Now the ACEs Studio got axed, and like old Egypt that burried the slaves with their Pharaos, global capitalism burries the workers with their luckless managers.

Microsoft has refused to sell the exisiting FS plattform to the former ACES team that would have tried it on their own ( source Phil Taylor http://www.futuregpu.org/ )

I interpret this that they intend to set up a new group, using the exisiting basis, or at least want to keep this as opportunity. Since FSX has sold well and still is selling well, now that normal gamer new hardware is capable to run it, this may not be a bad decision.

What I'm afraid of is that FSX code comes under XBOX control, and FSXBOX loses its openess.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12657 times:
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Good. This will allow me to catch up to FSX! I have owned it for a couple years but I have not dared install it yet. Doing so would make me spend butt-loads of money on a new computer. Every release of a new FS means I build another new computer and I'm over it! Especially since I never get a version of the game running flawlessly before the next version comes out. Too much baggage.

With that said, I have reached a point where I am considering a new computer. I built this one over 4 years ago. I think it's time. Hopefully I will be able to finally install FSX and it looks like I wont have to worry about another upgrade for a while! ha!



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12538 times:



Quoting Zappbrannigan (Reply 12):
XP has some features that would enhance the heavy jet world in FS - such as sloping/uneven runways that the aircraft rides over nicely (I think strut compression might even be modelled) - you get a real sense of speed down the runway in XP, unlike the billiard-table runways in FS.

That'd be a superb feature.

I guess however the whole development makes me annoyed at the way the whole lot got shafted.

Okay, get rid of the failed project managers - but keep the good people who make it what a great product it is/was. I met all the people behind FSX. While some managers losing their jobs doesn't worry me much - I feel bad for the artists in the team, the younger people who are trying to expand their careers.

I also remember Brett Schnepf, a real firebrand if ever there were one.  Smile I also remember "Z" on the karaoke...  Wink


User currently offlineRB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12294 times:



Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 2):

Microsoft just made my wife very happy......D@#$!+!!!



Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12273 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13):
I interpret this that they intend to set up a new group, using the exisiting basis, or at least want to keep this as opportunity

Agreed. I think some of us are jumping the gun... at least, I hope so. I mean, they've said they're scrapping the ACES team, not FS, right?


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12201 times:



Quoting David L (Reply 17):
they're scrapping the ACES team, not FS, right?

What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head? Or will be shot in the head in a few months?

If there is hapless management - then axe them, but don't get rid of the really talented people who know the product inside out and have very good ideas about how it might be made better.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12177 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 18):
What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head?

Yes, I said "ACES team" but it doesn't seem to be clear just what's happening. It could end up effectively being a "restructuring". I'm just saying I need more information before I decide how I feel about it.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11960 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 11):

Have you not tried the PMDG MD11? That's plenty realistic enough? Does X-Plane have anything to rival that level of realism?

I have the 737NG series. The only thing realistic about them is the button pushing, thats it really. And I would know considering I'm (technically) type rated in the 737 (yes, the REAL thing), I have 26hrs in 737-3/5/8 Level D sims, I'm just missing the type rating to show up in my license, but that wasn't part of the deal during my internship with CO.

I was talking about flight dynamics. X-plane is like a virtual wind tunnel, something none of the FS versions can even approximate, as FS is based on a crude tabular system.

I was skeptical of X-plane's dynamics until I did the ultimate test when I simulated a VMC demo in a Piper Seminole in X-plane. The thing started rolling over itself at 56kts which was EXACTLY how the plane behaved all the times I did a VMC demo in the real life Seminole. Not to mention X-plane has an extremely accurate constant speed prop/thrust dynamics.

I will admit though, I still play FS9 more than X-plane, heck I haven't played X-plane at all this year.

The ultimate flight simulator for me would have FS graphics and X-plane dynamics.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11937 times:

To run FSX with meaningful settings, you do not need anything special today. A fast dual core or not too slow quad core, 3 to 4 GB of Ram, and any x8xx graphics adapter do it, and should be in the 600-800$ area. Just don't save on the graphics, do not take anything of x6xx or even below, true FSX grafics needs the true 3d cards.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 18):
What good is the base, if the core people who have the knowledge have been shot in the head? Or will be shot in the head in a few months?

It isn't the first team that worked on FS that got dissolved, and all I hope is that it isn't the last one. Time will show, until than time has time to catch up with FSX.


User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5186 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11920 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 21):
It isn't the first team that worked on FS that got dissolved, and all I hope is that it isn't the last one. Time will show, until than time has time to catch up with FSX.

really? Can you elaborate on that. I wasnt aware of the team being dissolved before?



That'll teach you
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11920 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 20):
I have the 737NG series. The only thing realistic about them is the button pushing, thats it really. And I would know considering I'm (technically) type rated in the 737 (yes, the REAL thing), I have 26hrs in 737-3/5/8 Level D sims, I'm just missing the type rating to show up in my license, but that wasn't part of the deal during my internship with CO.

I suggest you get in contact with PMDG and start pushing them to do better then, or push the X-Plane community to do what is missing better.

However, I was involved in another well known FS simulation, and the feedback we got from pilots and engineers of the real thing was different to yours. Admittedly, ours was a much older and more complicated airliner with many old fashioned round dials (even had a INS).

It's a question of who is tuning the performance of the plane in Flight Simulator. It's a very fine art - and what I was involved with was pretty much the ultimate in complicated flight characteristics. Certainly testing it was tough enough.

It was tweaked again and again and again, verified against real world data endlessly, and tested 'till we all started to get quite exhausted (and sometimes a bit cranky). It's not that FS can't be accurate, it's just a matter of who is developing the addon, and how they are doing it. It has a lot more left in it.

There is scope for developers to do their own simulations of anything FS doesn't do so well outside of FSX. In fact, that was encouraged for anything very complex, with the idea of SimConnect being the bridge between a developer's addon architecture and FSX. It would probably even be possible to do something X-Plane like (in terms of physics), assuming you had the expertise and development resources to support it.

Using SimConnect is also best practice, with the idea of minimising the amount of connection points your own code has with FS (less places things can break if MS changes/upgrades FS internal code).

However, I've backed right out of flight simulator now (due to my day job taking up the majority of my time). So I'm not exactly up to date with the latest developments. My last purchase was the MD11, and I have very little time for it. That's my world now - I don't play any computer games any more.  Sad I get home, I eat, watch about 30mins of TV then go to sleep.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11916 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios

shows that closing of game studios happens every year at MS. And the old BAO team is gone long agao too.


25 FLY2HMO : Well for them to do better, flight sim would have to be better in itself. But now that they're dead, who knows what's gonna happen...
26 Burkhard : More news - Microsoft offers an open position for project lead of developping Flight Simulator. So Good bye to the topic - welcome to the new Microsof
27 VC-10 : That's true, how could you bring out a celebration of 100 years of flight and not include Concorde?
28 David L : Well, there's a surprise. Perhaps they realised they couldn't do it justice. Even the less challenging default aircraft are pretty mediocre.
29 RB211 : That's good to hear. Maybe this time they'll set it up so that I can easily modify my AFCADs and include a movable tower.
30 Cpd : Because they'd do a pretty poor job of it - and two addon developers already did the plane.
31 VC-10 : I know, I was part of the test team for one of them!
32 LASOctoberB6 : Well, it wouldn't have been any good. Their representation of Boeing's models were terrible. I quickly removed them from the program once I learned h
33 Burkhard : I also don't mind what they include, I mind that the engine works and the tools to create contents make good stuff - the rest I build myself or know s
34 Post contains links FatmirJusufi : Microsoft Flight Simulator Petition http://www.petitiononline.com/MSFS/petition.html
35 Post contains links ReguPilot : According to an Avsim newsflash, FlightSim is dead as well as ESP, which was the big hope. If ESP is dead, I don't see why they would keep with flight
36 Cpd : With a model like that, if it happens - they are going to go nowhere. The devotees are going to stick with FSX and or FS9. FS9 is still a good perform
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