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OpenSource Aircraft  
User currently offlineKirkc From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5737 times:

Hello all,

What do you think about an open source aircraft development project like the one at jumbolino.org?
For me very interesting, though maybe an opportunity like it was for software many years ago?

kirkc

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKirkc From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5262 times:

Hello everybody,

Phase 1 of the project is close to end, this means the basic aircraft requirements will be defined on December 31st!

kirkc


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

What a crap, they don't know if they want to build a helicopter or a submarine, have not analysed the market, and want to build an aircraft anfd get it certified?

User currently offlineKirkc From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Hello Burkhard,

isn't that a chance to participate right from the beginning in defining what to do? Instead of complaining about decisions done by others without having influence, they have a poll where everybody can participate and join the decision making progress, instead of just watching some persons. And the decision of the majority will be like a kind of market research, representing the "need" of the voters, doesn't this reflect democracy?

kirkc


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5184 times:

I have seen many unrealistic waste of resources, this is one of the most ridicoulous. Why then decide they want to make an aircraft a priori? Why not plant some trees?

If it were a project for a flight simulator, such an appoach might make sense, and bring something on FS2000 level around 2030 - but here we speak about a real aircraft I assume, so something that needs many millions of $ just for the certification process...


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 708 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5157 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Wait, is this for flight sim or for real?


Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5146 times:

For real I understand ! For Flight Sim it would be fun, for real it is a bad joke.

User currently offlineKirkc From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

The project pages say for real. And why not? I mean, did not everybody say it is nonsense when Linux started? And now it is used in really critical areas. I say : think different! for me it is interesting and a challenge. And there are many good engineers, technicians, enthusiasts and students out there, who really can make a good thing in this project.

User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

Er, I'm in agreement with Burkhard, he has a point.

For Flight Sim, yes, great. But an opensource real plane, surely not.

I mean look at the effort that goes into real planes, just to name a few:

Cessna Skycatcher
Cirrus SR-22
Honda HA-420
Cessna Citation Mustang

Just to name a few from the GA or VLJ category. Not even thinking of the big names like Gulfstream or Dassault Aviation. This is the same Dassault that offers Catia and the legendary fighter plane Mirage, along with some of the most advanced biz-jets you can get. - They also had a 2008 revenue of €3.75 Billion.

Hardly small fry. I'm open minded, but I see the idea of an open-source real plane ending in disaster.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5129 times:

The LINUX example is a very good one. Berkeley System V was a UNIX version written by programmers and students at the Berkely between 1976 and 1979. So basically built using taxpayers money, it was free available for other universities, fine. Some parts of it were based on still older AT&T code, and partially replaced over the years.

In the mid of the 80th it became clear that the approach used for this system, a single threaded kernel, was inefficient in all multi-user or multi-process application, more modern UNIX implementations took over, using POSIX standards etc... and most important efficient Kernel concepts. AT&T gave up all property rights of this ( not voluntarily, there were many lawyers involved), and it lay around in the software bin for a decade.

The big discovery by Linus Torwald was that
a) the requirements of a home computer are low, you typically only run one application
b) PC hardware has got so powerful that you can give up on efficiency - with a big enough engine everything flies
c) Microsofts Windows 95 etc weren't efficent either.
d) Nobody claimed any rights on the code he discovered under dust built in more than a decade.

So a bit of software was bundeled and a bit written and ready was LINUX - and since then got nothing but many new colorful desktops .

So, let us a build an airplane a la Linux.

It will look like a DC9, have the efficiency of the DC9, and will be built in China. There whill be a 90 seater called Gnome, a 102 seater called Geyser and a 114 seater called Giant. I hope it will be as reliable as a DC9, and not come with instructions how to crash it as normal passenger as Linux comes...


User currently offlineKirkc From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

You don't have to forget that there is some experience in opensource since the beginning of LINUX. And I think, opensource can afford several persons checking things than only a few ones like in companies, which have to take care on the money. I mean, 4 eyes see more than 2 and so on.
And concerning the LINUX example, I would not only say that the effort of the last few years was only some colour and nice desktop. But this is another topic.

I believe in persons around the world being able to fulfill a small aircraft as opensource. And even if the project manages not the certification but the design, this would be a big effort (though the certification requires a lot of money). Maybe like LINUX a company then will take over the certification? who knows. But without trying and starting we will never know.

And concerning on CATIA, it has some nice colours, but if this opensource aircraft ends up like CATIA, you're right, it will be a disaster...


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