kann123air From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 166 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9380 times:
Hi all,
I just wanted to know what are some of the hardest airports for general aviation to land in (example: VNLK Lukla, Nepal). I am exploring these airports in FSX to hone my landing skills.
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 555 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9355 times:
Ehh my guesses would be Kai Tak or EGE. There was a show about the most extreme airports on the history channel. Pretty interesting show. As for the airports I guess SXM and TGU are up there too.
kann123air From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9306 times:
Hmmm....I have tried Kai Tak and TGU on a 738 (and landed successfully), and SXM on most aircraft on FSX (largest being the 744-successfully), but I am yet to try EGE. But, considering that AA 752s fly there, it is probably much easier than Lukla.
Couldn't even land a Beech Baron 58 in Lukla, and I have been a Flight Simulator enthusiast since I was 5!
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 555 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9214 times:
I don't have FSX but I play X-Plane 9 on my iPad. So theres not much challenge but its still some sort of flight sim. The most challenging thing i've done is landing on runway 1L at SFO in a thunderstorm on an A380.... Now that takes skills
Just tried Aeroflex-Andover, and I can see what you mean about the tough landing with the lake right in front of RWY 21. Do you think it is possible with a Lear 45?
Right, SAB is REALLY hard.
Tried it in a SQ 738 (I know, ridiculous right?), and you can guess the result. Can it even handle a Beech Baron 58 or King Air 350?
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1221 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8602 times:
I don't know...I've never had a problem landing at SXM unless I try to come in over the mountains. But coming in over the beach for me at least, is an easy approach...and I'm just getting to the point where I'm actually making successful landings...only took me a few years.
Ps76 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8525 times:
Hi!
I think Courchevel in France is pretty tough. It has a sloped runway and is in the moutains and stuff. There's a guy doing a series at the moment in the screenshot forum of Flightsim.com of tough airports to land at if you're interested.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8352 times:
Just suggested this be moved to the Hobby forum. This isn't about real flying.
aerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2244 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8304 times:
Tivat, Montenegro is a real challenge! A non ILS approach through either mountains or over a lake. it's fun Look @ pics of the real place to see what I mean!
BA EI FH FR TS ZB 3K 5G A306 A313 A320 A321 A333 B738 B744 B772 BCN CRL DUB FRA FUE GRO HEL HER HKG JFK LHR LIN MAD MXP
csturdiv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1254 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8254 times:
There is an add-on for FSX that is for dangerous airports. One of the airports is Mountain Air in Ashville, North Carolina. I have not flown there in FS9 or FSX, but a friend of the family flew his Piper Meridian in there as he said it was a hairy approach, and he is no rookie when it comes to flying.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8247 times:
Quoting kann123air (Reply 7): Can it even handle a Beech Baron 58 or King Air 350?
King Air no, Baron maybe. But for T/O would have to be empty. I have done many successful landings there but only in Caravans and Twin Otters.
Another great airport is Saint Barths SBH but you need to find good scenery for it! FlyTampa makes a great one for FSX/FS9 but FS9 also has a great freeware SBH on avsim along with a great SABA freeware. Both airports need some add on scenery to get the landings done right.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
THEBATMAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 821 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8209 times:
Quoting kann123air (Thread starter): There was a show about the most extreme airports on the history channel.
So from the show, the 10 most extreme/dangerous airports are:
10. San Diego’s Lindbergh Field KSAN: Due to high volume of traffic, has a single runway, and is right next to the population center. According to the airport director, they handle over 550 flights a day,
all with one runway, and too many aircraft could end up on a collision course if something goes wrong. Cited accident is PSA182, the Boeing 727-214 which crashed into a Cessna 172 during approach.
9. Madeira’s Funchal Airport LPMA: Due to turbulent winds and dangerous terrain as well as the runway extending out into the ocean. The runway itself was cut out of the mountain and is very short.
Another risk is bird strikes due to the large number of seabirds in the region. Cited accident is TAP Portugal Flight 425, a Boeing 727-282Adv which overran the runway. The runway was lengthened
and is built on stilts out into the ocean, meaning if you go off the runway, there is a 60+ foot drop.
8. Vail Colorado’s Eagle County Airport KEGE: Terrain (Rocky Mountains), unpredictable weather, and high altitude. Approach requires higher speeds due to altitude and the fact that Vail is in a valley
and you have to quickly descend once you cross the mountains and the weather can change in an instant. No specific accident is cited, but it is mentioned private pilots have underestimated the dangers
and resulted in crashes.
7. Courchevel France’s airport LFLJ: Elevation, built on mountainside, ski jump runway, no ability for a go around. Not much else said about it.
6. Hong Kong’s Kai Tak VHHX: Yes it is closed, but it had one of the most dangerous approaches due to buildings. the landing was visual (the checkered board), and the extremely short turns onto final.
Cited accident is China Airlines Flight 605, the Boeing 747-409 which went off the end of the runway.
5. Gibraltar Airport LXGB: Shared with the RAF and is restricted air space, and there is highway access across the runway. Also terrain, weather and buildings in the area around the airport. Spanish airspace
restrictions force short and sharp turns onto finals. When wind is from certain directions, The Rock of Gibraltar causes crosswinds and severe tailwinds for aircraft on approach.
4. St. Maarten’s Princess Juliana International Airport TNCM: While it has the most beautiful views, both the beach and the aircraft, its low approach over the beach, steep climb out over the mountains,
and very high number amount of traffic. Thankfully the steep climb out has not resulted in any accidents. (They showed a bunch of great videos from the beach and talked about the Sunset Bar.) And of course
they had to mention the idiots who “ride the fence” and try to hang on from the jet blast from departing aircraft. They even filmed this for the show while people tried to survive a 747 takeoff, thankfully
no one got hurt.
3. Saint Barth’s Gustaf III Airport TFFJ: Extremely short airport, very dangerous approach, and a runway which ends in the ocean. So far there have not been any fatal accidents, mostly because you have to have
special training, certification, and special licenses to land at Saint Barth’s. Landing is often downhill, but if you are landing “uphill,” there is no go around if you need to abort.
2. Tegucigalpa, Honduras’ Toncontín International Airport MHTG: International airport with the shortest runway that has regular, commercial traffic. There is 65 foot cliff at the end of the runway, and a mountain
at the other. The approach is completely visual (similar to Kai Tak) and the area you have to aim for is only about 500 feet apart. The runway is just under 7,100 feet long. Cited accident is Tan-Sahsa Flight
414, a 727-200 crash that was the result of CFIT and a USAF C-130 which went off the end of the runway in 1997. Also was the most recent, TACA Flight 390, an Airbus A320-233, which overran the runway, went
over the cliff, and crashed into a hillside. After that accident, the runway was extended which was done by removing a hill. This reduced the steepness of the approaches.
1. Lukla, Nepal’s Tenzing-Hillary Airport VNLK: Extremely short runway, low visibility, high altitude, and weather which can be anything from clear to ice in a heart beat. The runway has a gradient of 12 degrees
with a mountain at the higher end, and a 2,000 foot drop at the other. There is no way to go around if something goes wrong. Pilots who fly into the airport have to have gone through special training and
certifications before they are allowed to fly into the airport. Numerous crashes with the most recent being Yeti Airlines Flight 103, a De Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter which crashed on approach killing
18 onboard, only the pilot survived.
AndersNilsson From Sweden, joined May 2004, 411 posts, RR: 20 Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8091 times:
Vágar, Faroe Islands. 4,101 feet short runway.
"Accidents and incidents
3 August 1996: a Gulfstream III of the Danish Air Force crashed during final approach to Vágar Airport in bad weather and poor visibility. Nine people, including the Chief of Defence Jørgen Garde and his wife, perished as the aircraft collided with high terrain surrounding the airport.
1989: an Atlantic Airlines BAe 146 aircraft failed to stop at the end of the runway and was subsequently out of service for 3 weeks.
26 September 1970: Icelandair Fokker F27 originating in Copenhagen with a stopover in Bergen Norway. The flight from Bergen to Vágar Airport crashed in bad weather on Mykines. Eight of the 34 passengers lost their lives, and the badly wounded were airlifted away by helicopter. A marble memorial was placed in the Church."
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3429 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8020 times:
Growing up around CRW, these lists always amuse me. SAN... come on.
The runway is not that long (9,401ft), and add to that the severly displaced threshold (1,810ft) making it 7591ft for landing. Certiantly long enough for larger jets (BA operate the 777 into SAN) but its short when you have to consider the steep approach required,
Infact BA fly the 777 to PHX on the leg back to LHR for fuel as the runway is not long enough for the fully laden 777.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3792 posts, RR: 4 Reply 27, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8099 times:
Quoting 330guy (Reply 26):
Infact BA fly the 777 to PHX on the leg back to LHR for fuel as the runway is not long enough for the fully laden 777.
Not quite. Back in the day, BA operated a 777 LHR-PHX-SAN, and turned around and did SAN-PHX-LHR. This was as scheduled, not due to any length restrictions.
The current BA LHR-SAN-LHR has never made a tech stop in PHX.
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3429 posts, RR: 7 Reply 28, posted (10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8082 times:
Quoting 330guy (Reply 26): The runway is not that long (9,401ft), and add to that the severly displaced threshold (1,810ft) making it 7591ft for landing. Certiantly long enough for larger jets (BA operate the 777 into SAN) but its short when you have to consider the steep approach required,
Infact BA fly the 777 to PHX on the leg back to LHR for fuel as the runway is not long enough for the fully laden 777.
9,400ft. isnt that long!? Thats ample length for EVERYTHING except a TATL departure. If 9400 isnt that long then I never realized how many airports had "short runways". Hell, SNA must just be like landing on a walmart receipt.
The steep approach doesn't change how long a runway is or needs to be. It's not like it's london city. Any pilot landing on 27 could put it on the numbers if they so chose to.
Out of curiosity, what is a long runway to you? Is the shuttle landing strip just average?
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1221 posts, RR: 5 Reply 29, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8024 times:
Quoting flymia (Reply 24): Also the DCA river approach is not simple. Have to make sure you avoid the restricted airspace.
That's actually something I'd like to see in the next version of Flight Simulator....ATC warnings about restricted airspace, permission to fly through it, etc.
I think I may try some of those 10 approaches tomorrow. Not like I have anything else doing...
THEBATMAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 821 posts, RR: 11 Reply 30, posted (10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7786 times:
Probably one of the hardest trips I've ever done in FlightSim: Lukla, Nepal (VNLK) to Paro Airport in Bhutan (VQPR) in an A320. Might have been easier in a Twin Otter or Caravan, but my fuel and payload were very light. Anyway, try it - NOT EASY.
THEBATMAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 821 posts, RR: 11 Reply 32, posted (10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7758 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31): However when I tried this myself, I found the runway much too short. What did I do wrong?
Right off the bat, I would guess that your flap setting was wrong, or your elevator trim was not set properly. Also, what were your fuel and payload settings?
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3429 posts, RR: 7 Reply 33, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7661 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31): I've seen 747s flying out of TNCM in pictures and on TV. However when I tried this myself, I found the runway much too short. What did I do wrong?
Probably flaps, trip, and weight...weight likely being the biggest goof up.
Quoting THEBATMAN (Reply 30): Probably one of the hardest trips I've ever done in FlightSim: Lukla, Nepal (VNLK) to Paro Airport in Bhutan (VQPR) in an A320. Might have been easier in a Twin Otter or Caravan, but my fuel and payload were very light. Anyway, try it - NOT EASY.
That one is tricky. I've had everything up to the 75 in there.
contrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7349 times:
Canarsie Approach into JFK. I see at least 3 or 4 go arounds a week and thats in perfect weather.
Lemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 251 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7333 times:
Quoting 330guy (Reply 26): you have to consider the steep approach required
Not sure about this. According to the VOR approach plate (http://tiles.skyvector.com/sky/files/tpp/1108/pdf/00373L27.PDF), the descent angle from the FAF to the runway is only 3.14 degrees. Sure, it's steeper than a standard ILS approach, but not by much.
YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 696 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6692 times:
CYTZ. If winds are blowing from the north and you are doing the steep ILS to 26 you get all sorts of mechanical turbulence from the buildings. It's also just shy of a 4000 ft runway. Tricky to get her down and stopped without ending up in the lake. (either end of the runway actually.)
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3792 posts, RR: 4 Reply 41, posted (9 months 19 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
Quoting steffenbn (Reply 40): Seriously, I don't get why every one says that SXM as a difficult airport to land in! There are (mostly) no obstacles!!
Huh?
At one end of the runway there's a rather busy beach, and at the other there's more water then mountains. Not to mention that the runway is only 7000 feet long...
Just because the approach path doesn't have vertical obstacles, doesn't mean that the landing is "easy".
CharlieNoble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 42, posted (9 months 6 hours ago) and read 6456 times:
Quoting steffenbn (Reply 40): Seriously, I don't get why every one says that SXM as a difficult airport to land in! There are (mostly) no obstacles!!-Steffen Nielsen
Steffen I think it's because pilots have to focus on the runway instead of the ladies on the beach
bristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1993 posts, RR: 1 Reply 43, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6252 times:
Sedona, AZ is pretty tough if you approach from the east - even if you follow the 'altitude lights' by the side of the runway you can miss the runway altogether - something to do with the updraft from the hill maybe? FYI it's a nice flight to start at Flagstaff and put down at Sedona.
steffenbn From Denmark, joined Apr 2010, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6259 times:
Quoting CharlieNoble (Reply 42):
Steffen I think it's because pilots have to focus on the runway instead of the ladies on the beach
Didn't think about that! Well it might be true, 'cause women are the biggest obstacles in this world!! Espacially when in "Summer Suit" (read as sarcasm)
JohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 6 Reply 45, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6177 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SUPPORT
Quoting THEBATMAN (Reply 21): 3. Saint Barth’s Gustaf III Airport TFFJ: Extremely short airport, very dangerous approach, and a runway which ends in the ocean. So far there have not been any fatal accidents, mostly because you have to have
special training, certification, and special licenses to land at Saint Barth’s. Landing is often downhill, but if you are landing “uphill,” there is no go around if you need to abort.
19 fatalities from one (1) aircraft (dhc6) which crashed while on approach to the airport. Which as far as I know is the only fatal crash at that airport. How do I know? I live on a nieghbouring island.
chrisco1204 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3635 times:
Ocean Ridge Airport (E55) in Gualala California is extremely difficult to land in. It is parallel to the coastline with a very narrow runway that has towering trees surrounding the airfield in all directions. The crosswinds are often very strong, and accompanied by sudden changes in wind speed and direction. I wouldn't recommend it for fledgling aviators.
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Didn't think about that! 
Well it might be true, 'cause women are the biggest obstacles in this world!! 
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