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Trying To Get My Private Pilot's Certification  
User currently offlinedreamer3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15495 times:

Hey all,

A month ago, I decided I wanted to pursue a private pilot's certification, but I've run into a few bumps along the way. On the first flight, we had engine issues and had to return to the airport as soon as we got up in the air. On the second flight, we got halfway down the runway during takeoff and aborted because the plane wasn't generating enough rpms to get into the air. This has made me completely lose confidence in the plane, a cessna 172. It's such a shame, because I love the actual experience of being in the air.

Is it possible to train on a more stable plane? Maybe one that has a jet engine? Is there a flight academy that has a flawless safety record?

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 15466 times:

A jet engine? Well.... I suppose, in theory, yes. If you are ready to shell out a couple hundred thousand bucks...

If you dont like the airplane, or you feel the maintenance might be fishy in that particular school, find another school, with a different type, or a newer model.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 15463 times:

No. If you want to get a PPL, you're going to have to do it in single engine propeller aircraft, such as Cessa 152/172s, Piper PA38s, 28s etc. No, you can't train on a jet.

But think of it this way. Both your experiences proved the safety of what you were doing. In both instances, something went wrong - as will always happen to you in aviation, whether you're flying a C172 or an A380. But the system worked both times - the aircraft was brought safely home the first time, and the instructor recognised the issue and stopped the second time.

Plus, you've probably already used up your bad luck tokens  



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineTupolevtu154 From Germany, joined Aug 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 15441 times:

Alternatively, if you're really that worried, you could try gliding. I don't know how common gliding clubs are in the US but it's just as fun, far more relaxing and cheaper. The biggest selling point for you would be the lack of engine in the first place!


Atheists - Winning since 33 A.D.
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15357 times:

A 172 or a 150 is THE plane to get your private in. I would argue that it is far better for new students to learn in than any other GA aircraft. It is perfectly safe and reliable, but like every other aircraft, how safe the individual plane is will be determined by the quality of the operation and how many corners they are willing to cut.

Something to also keep in mind. I'm assuming you are a bit of a commercial aviation geek since you are on this site. You probably see that whenever an airliner has any type of problem it is generally a big deal and people will post about it and make a big deal about it (too big of a deal usually) and the reason for this is because the world of commercial aviation is so safe and uneventful that when something does happen it becomes big news.

General aviation is not like that, there are WAY less regulations and requirements involved. Because of this and because there is less money involved in the airplanes/business/pilots/ect... there will be more "problems" You will have lots of little issues in your GA career and that's just the way it is. I have 1000 or so GA hours and I have had my share of little problems or annoyances. Nothing major, nothing that I had to declare an emergency for or talk to the FAA about but little things like you mentioned.

If anything take them as a learning experience, they will factor in to your decision making abilities and ultimately help you as a pilot.


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15340 times:
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Quoting bueb0g (Reply 2):

No. If you want to get a PPL, you're going to have to do it in single engine propeller aircraft, such as Cessa 152/172s, Piper PA38s, 28s etc. No, you can't train on a jet.

I don't believe that it is stated anywhere that PPL training MUST be done in a SEP aircraft.



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15318 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
I don't believe that it is stated anywhere that PPL training MUST be done in a SEP aircraft.

It's not but good luck finding the cash to do it. Even if you wanted to upgrade to simply a multi-engine piston you would be more than doubling the cost of any given rating. And a multi-piston is no safer or more stable than a single piston.


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15304 times:
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I know, but that's not what buebog was saying. If the OP has the cash at hand (who knows, he might have won Megamillions) and wishes to learn on jets/turboprops, there will be people out there who will be willing to provide the training from ab initio. I'm sure that insurance would cost just as much as the fuel though!

I for one think it would make a refreshing change to zip around in a Jet Provost instead of my 172!



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlinen797mx From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15301 times:

Quoting Tupolevtu154 (Reply 3):
Alternatively, if you're really that worried, you could try gliding. I don't know how common gliding clubs are in the US but it's just as fun, far more relaxing and cheaper. The biggest selling point for you would be the lack of engine in the first place!

Well if he keeps flying with a plane that cant get up to the necessary it might be a possibility...  

In all seriousness however I would look into the flight trainings safety records and maintenance logs for the plane you are in and double/triple check everything is good and up to date. I attend Kent State University and know they have a very good safety record when it comes to maintenance. The only thing I have found to be a problem is occasionally on some of the older aircraft I will find a popped screw.

Also, with regards to the engine not performing well I would look deeper into what they do with the plane after you cancelled your flight. IIRC there was a flight school in NY that was shut down because they were trying to cut costs by not repairing planes that were failing, hopefully not another case.



Clear skies and strong tail winds.
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15292 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 7):

Realistically, even if he had the money it wouldn't work. First off, large turbo-props/turbo-jets are not designed to do quick flights (traffic patterns) I mean Aloha had a hard enough time flying 737's inter-island in Hawaii. Also he would run into the same problem of general condition of the aircraft. Sure large planes are well maintained when they are with an airline or charter operator, but they aren't about to lease out a plane to guy who wants a private pilots license. Finally, unless he buys the plane, no one is going to "rent out" their jet. Training aircraft take a beating and large planes are not designed for that.


User currently offlinedreamer3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

Thanks everyone for all your responses. They have all been really helpful. I have not won the megamillions so cessnas will have to do for now. But wow, training on a 737? What a dream.

I talked to a guy with the Air Force who recommended I train on pipers. Any thoughts on this?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for flight schools in the NYC area? I'm looking for a school where I'll only have to spend 10-15k for a certificate, that has a good maintenance record. Also, I'd prefer if the school had instructors who like being instructors. I've noticed that a lot of instructors are just there to accumulate hours. And i'd prefer if the instructor had a little gray in his/her hair. Sorry if anyone reading this is a young instructor, I know this is a form of ageism, but i just feel better with a seasoned vet.


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15259 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 9):
First off, large turbo-props/turbo-jets are not designed to do quick flights (traffic patterns)

No offense but tell that to guys that come up to VCV and beat up the pattern and request multiple instrument approaches while flying E50P's, EA50's and various Citations.

FX1816


User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15227 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
No offense but tell that to guys that come up to VCV and beat up the pattern and request multiple instrument approaches while flying E50P's, EA50's and various Citations.

Multiple approaches are different than touch and goes where the engines are going from high settings to low settings very quickly. Plus those are experienced pilots, either working on a type rating or testing nav equipment.


User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1359 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 15221 times:

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 10):
I'd prefer if the school had instructors who like being instructors. I've noticed that a lot of instructors are just there to accumulate hours. And i'd prefer if the instructor had a little gray in his/her hair.

Just because they're there to build hours doesn't mean they don't like instructing. Honestly, for what you have to go through to become an instructor, you don't just do it to build hours. It was hands down the most brutal checkride of my life just to get the privilege of teaching people to fly.

The other thing to keep in mind is you'll likely pay more for a seasoned instructor, and in my experience they're usually ex-airline pilots who will expect more out of you faster than a younger instructor.

And lastly, as far as your aircraft for training, yes you can use a piper, but the Cessna's are a far more stable platform to learn in. The Cessna 172 can take far more abuse than the Piper Warrior or Piper Archer, I teach in both types daily and would rather have my initial students in the 172. Just because you had a small incident in the 172 is no reason to write it off. Look at a different school than the one you first went with and you'll find its the most common trainer out there, and after your first bad landing you'll understand why.


User currently offlinesimonisjf From South Africa, joined Sep 2012, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 15211 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 13):
Just because they're there to build hours doesn't mean they don't like instructing. Honestly, for what you have to go through to become an instructor, you don't just do it to build hours. It was hands down the most brutal checkride of my life just to get the privilege of teaching people to fly.

The other thing to keep in mind is you'll likely pay more for a seasoned instructor, and in my experience they're usually ex-airline pilots who will expect more out of you faster than a younger instructor.

And lastly, as far as your aircraft for training, yes you can use a piper, but the Cessna's are a far more stable platform to learn in. The Cessna 172 can take far more abuse than the Piper Warrior or Piper Archer, I teach in both types daily and would rather have my initial students in the 172. Just because you had a small incident in the 172 is no reason to write it off. Look at a different school than the one you first went with and you'll find its the most common trainer out there, and after your first bad landing you'll understand why.

I agree with Flyer732, I just feel safer in a high wing plane for some reason. I have had my instructor cut my engine completely in flight and had me glide while I "fault-finded". Very scary but it shows you the capability of your plane. The C172 is an excellent plane in my opinion. You got some good practice in dealing with emergency procedures. Stick it out but perhaps move to another flight school and ask to see their maintenance procedures.

Flight instructors.. yeah some of them seem to be bored out of their minds but given their jobs (teaching many folks who only get to test for their PPLs at 130 hours...) I respect them. At times the working conditions are not that great.



@simonisjf is where I am at. I love thunderstorms, but only from the ground!
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 15210 times:
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Quoting alaska737 (Reply 9):
large turbo-props/turbo-jets are not designed to do quick flights (traffic patterns)

Large ones? Agreed. But I was referring to something like a Pilatus PC-7, or a Jet Provost. Those *were* designed to take abuse. I wasn't suggesting that he fly a 737! For a start, the OP wouldn't get to do his solo!

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 13):
The Cessna 172 can take far more abuse than the Piper Warrior or Piper Archer

Amen! I put it down to the landing gear.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 12):
Plus those are experienced pilots, either working on a type rating or testing nav equipment.

I am aware of at least one flight school that uses a fleet of Citation Mustangs for their jet phase. Those aircraft do nothing else but training flights.

Quoting simonisjf (Reply 14):
I have had my instructor cut my engine completely in flight

Interesting! Mine would never do that on a single engined aircraft!

Btw dreamer3, are you doing this for fun, or with the possibility of turning flying into a career?



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlinedreamer3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 15192 times:

Nah just for fun. No way could I handle the pressure of being responsible for other souls. Big Kudos to commercial pilots. Although part of me dreams of flying seaplanes commercially between the Virgin Islands.

User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 15180 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 6):
It's not but good luck finding the cash to do it.

That is what I meant... notice I talked about hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 6):
And a multi-piston is no safer ... than a single piston.

Debatable...

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 9):
Realistically, even if he had the money it wouldn't work. First off, large turbo-props/turbo-jets are not designed to do quick flights (traffic patterns) I mean Aloha had a hard enough time flying 737's inter-island in Hawaii.

Ever heard of jet trainers? L-39 and so?   Nobody says he should fly multicrew airliners... Meanwhile I seem to recall that there was/is an airforce that has their whole curriculum in turbine planes (jets and maybe turboprops) - so if a soldier can do it, why not a civilian?



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinedreamer3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 15178 times:

L-39 training is only for those with a pilots license. we're talking about training on jets without any prior flight experience. But thanks for the info. Once i get my PPL, I will be training on those bad boys. The unit cost is only 300,000!!! I don't get it. Why don't all training schools offer the L-39? Wouldn't everyone prefer to fly on those as opposed to cessnas? They cost about the same

User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 15171 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 4):

A 172 or a 150 is THE plane to get your private in. I would argue that it is far better for new students to learn in than any other GA aircraft. It is perfectly safe and reliable, but like every other aircraft, how safe the individual plane is will be determined by the quality of the operation and how many corners they are willing to cut.

Let's not forget about PA28s/PA38s... PA38 is arguably the best trainer of them all... unfettered engine access, great in the stall, nice spin, handles like a larger plane, lots of space in the cabin...

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 4):
I don't believe that it is stated anywhere that PPL training MUST be done in a SEP aircraft.

It's not, but nobody is realistically going to be able to get a PPL (and only a PPL, as the OP seems to want,) on an a/c that isn't an SEP.

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 7):
there will be people out there who will be willing to provide the training from ab initio

Unlikely. Even all expensive ab initio schemes I know of do ~100 hrs on SEPs.

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 10):
I talked to a guy with the Air Force who recommended I train on pipers. Any thoughts on this?

Doesn't really matter. They're all light SEPs, so comes down to personal preference. I trained on the piper PA38, fantastic trainer. I'm a piper guy and would always chose a PA38 over a C150/152 and a PA28 over a C172/182 but there's no real rational reason to chose one vs the other.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1359 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 15170 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 19):
Let's not forget about PA28s/PA38s... PA38 is arguably the best trainer of them all... unfettered engine access, great in the stall, nice spin, handles like a larger plane, lots of space in the cabin...

You won't really find any PA38's in the states, the 172 and the PA28 are the standard trainer aircraft. But as I said in my previous post, I teach in both types daily, and I much prefer putting my initial students in the 172, which will handle what they throw at it much better. On top of that, spins are not typically taught to or shown to private students in the USA, only a requirement at the instructor level.


User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 15164 times:

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 18):
The unit cost is only 300,000!!! I don't get it. Why don't all training schools offer the L-39? Wouldn't everyone prefer to fly on those as opposed to cessnas? They cost about the same

They might cost... well, comparably, to a SEP... but the cost to run them... in another world.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 15151 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 19):
PA38 is arguably the best trainer of them all... unfettered engine access, great in the stall, nice spin, handles like a larger plane, lots of space in the cabin

All I will say is that there is a reason it's been dubbed the "TramaHawk"

Quoting Fabo (Reply 17):
so if a soldier can do it, why not a civilian?

I might not be 100% correct on this but US Military pilots don't go by the regulations that civilian pilots do. When they are going through their training they don't get a DOT licence that civilian pilots do.

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 18):
The unit cost is only 300,000!!! I don't get it

Yeah and BAC-111's are only 100,000, but there is a reason they are that price. Fuel/Maintenance/insurance/hanger space would more than triple the base price

Quoting Fabo (Reply 17):
Debatable...

Not for a new student.


User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15130 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 22):
I might not be 100% correct on this but US Military pilots don't go by the regulations that civilian pilots do. When they are going through their training they don't get a DOT licence that civilian pilots do.

Yes, that is most certainly true in most, if not all military flying, but the basic principles of flight still apply.
Academically speaking of course, as cost of such training would be prohibitive for most, if not all, flight students, if a military pilot can learn ab initio on turbines, so can a civilian. Not that he would have much use of it (unlike a career military pilot).

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 22):
Not for a new student.

Definitely. The question is, where would he be put on solo... assuming that instructors and examiners would hold him to high enough standarts. Again, this is an academic debate, as this would not be practical for a civilian private students for reasons not dissimilar to jet training. Then again, I know of a school (a tiny place, with grunt of business on different aviation jobs), that did teach basic PPL on a twin for a while - their Cessna was grounded for some reason and other options were a cropduster trainer with a big radial in front, or a touring twin of roughly Seneca/Baron class. The twin was cheaper in the end, so they used it for teaching while Cessna was in the shop.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15059 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 22):
All I will say is that there is a reason it's been dubbed the "TramaHawk"

By people who haven't flown it, due to accidents caused by people trying spins at 1,000 feet...



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15098 times:

Quoting dreamer3 (Thread starter):

Think of it like this--the majority of PPLs are earned with the 172/150. Hell, I did a lesson in a 172 from 1972. (Very 70s.... all red inside!) It's perfectly safe.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4892 posts, RR: 10
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15064 times:

Quoting dreamer3 (Thread starter):
On the first flight, we had engine issues and had to return to the airport as soon as we got up in the air. On the second flight, we got halfway down the runway during takeoff and aborted because the plane wasn't generating enough rpms to get into the air. This has made me completely lose confidence in the plane, a cessna 172.

I'd say if anything, lose confidence in maintenance. Cessnas aren't popular simply because of their looks. They're great airplanes, but they can go sour if you don't take care of them. The type of plane isn't the concern, but rather the flight school.

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 10):
I talked to a guy with the Air Force who recommended I train on pipers. Any thoughts on this?

If you're doing your training during the summer, go Cessna. If you like baking cookies on the glareshield, go Piper. If you're a stickler for an "airliner-like" throttle quadrant, go Piper. If you like more than one door, go Cessna. If you like to look down with an unobstructed view, go Cessna. If you like to turn your head and see where you're turning, go Piper.

In terms of maneuvers, they're both great, but I find the stall characteristics in the Pipers more gentle.

I flew the 172 for my Private, and switched to the Warrior for Instrument. I fly both in my Commercial training, as well as the Arrow, which flies like the heavy beefed-up Warrior that it is. If you get a chance, try both; different spokes for different folks.

Quoting dreamer3 (Reply 18):
The unit cost is only 300,000!!! I don't get it. Why don't all training schools offer the L-39?

Fuel, insurance, maintenance, and NIMBYs.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlinenipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 15095 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 19):
PA38 is arguably the best trainer of them all

   I've flown both the Tomahawk and the 172, and prefer the Tomahawk. IIRC the 172 has springs attached to it's control cables, I find the PA38 to handle more directly. And it has two doors, just like the 172   .

Nick



one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1359 posts, RR: 22
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15082 times:

Quoting nipoel123 (Reply 27):
  I've flown both the Tomahawk and the 172, and prefer the Tomahawk. IIRC the 172 has springs attached to it's control cables, I find the PA38 to handle more directly. And it has two doors, just like the 172   .

Even so, you'll be hard pressed to find one in the US. In my time flying, I've only ever seen one PA38, and it was private.


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15067 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 12):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):No offense but tell that to guys that come up to VCV and beat up the pattern and request multiple instrument approaches while flying E50P's, EA50's and various Citations.
Multiple approaches are different than touch and goes where the engines are going from high settings to low settings very quickly. Plus those are experienced pilots, either working on a type rating or testing nav equipment.

I KNOW that touch and goes are a bit different than instrument approaches but I also said that they come and beat up the pattern at VCV, with multiple touch and goes, for at least an hour at a time.

Experienced pilots or not who cares I responded to your quote of.....

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 9):
First off, large turbo-props/turbo-jets are not designed to do quick flights (traffic patterns

So I never said anything about the pilots experience but kudos to avoiding my actual statement.  

FX1816


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15046 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 28):
Even so, you'll be hard pressed to find one in the US. In my time flying, I've only ever seen one PA38, and it was private.

My flying school has 14 of them. We sometimes joke that we own the entire airworthy European fleet... And it's only half a joke...



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4892 posts, RR: 10
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14985 times:

If Cessnas and Pipers aren't your thing, Diamond's DA-20 is growing in popularity. It utilizes a control stick, and has a canopy. Also, light sport aircraft are joining the scene.


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineAllegiantAir From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14176 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 28):
Quoting nipoel123 (Reply 27): I've flown both the Tomahawk and the 172, and prefer the Tomahawk. IIRC the 172 has springs attached to it's control cables, I find the PA38 to handle more directly. And it has two doors, just like the 172 .Even so, you'll be hard pressed to find one in the US. In my time flying, I've only ever seen one PA38, and it was private.

I work at an FBO in Minnesota that has a PA38 as its primary trainer. I also did all of my Private in it. Great plane, had no problems with it. It is pretty economical too. The POH claims it burns 7 gallons an hour, but if you lean it during cruise at 65% power you could get it down to 6 gal/hr.

It is true that it's rare to find PA38s as training aircraft anymore. I've seen probably a 10 Tomahawks in the past few years and only two have been used for flight training (the two at our FBO, one was sold). They ARE designed to take quite a beating. The only problem is is that you can't have two 200 + pound people and full fuel.



Live to Fly.
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14164 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 26):
If you like more than one door, go Cessna.

PA38 has 2 doors!

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 26):
In terms of maneuvers, they're both great, but I find the stall characteristics in the Pipers more gentle.

Definitely true for the PA28. PA38 stall/spin characteristics are awesome though (ie sharp, defined, proper - much less gentle than the C152/172) - one reason why it's such a good trainer but not such an amazing tourer.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlinetan1mill From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14162 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 31):
If Cessnas and Pipers aren't your thing, Diamond's DA-20 is growing in popularity. It utilizes a control stick, and has a canopy. Also, light sport aircraft are joining the scene.

I got my PPL using a DA-20 and have no complaints. There will always be the discussion about whether a high wing or low wing is better. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I got my instrument in a G1000 equipped DA-40, which was nice, but looking back I wish I had done it in a non-glass cockpit and then transitioned to glass after. Going from steam gauges to glass is much easier than glass to steam in my opinion.



Love many, Trust few, Always paddle your own canoe.
User currently offlineMrCazzy From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10350 times:

No place will have a flawless safety record. Mistakes do happen. I am currently a student at university of North Dakota and have been flying a Cessna 172. I personally love the aircraft. Stability wise it is great. Flight wise try to fly 3x a week minimum to maintain currency and always study ground material for the check ride

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 36, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9417 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
Quoting bueb0g (Reply 2):

No. If you want to get a PPL, you're going to have to do it in single engine propeller aircraft, such as Cessa 152/172s, Piper PA38s, 28s etc. No, you can't train on a jet.

I don't believe that it is stated anywhere that PPL training MUST be done in a SEP aircraft.

If you own the airplane, you can train in it. No matter what the airplane is.

Quoting simonisjf (Reply 14):
I have had my instructor cut my engine completely in flight

Cut, as in turned off? Or just brought back to idle?

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 28):
I've only ever seen one PA38, and it was private.

Same here....at Peter O Knight Tampa

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 26):
If you're doing your training during the summer, go Cessna. If you like baking cookies on the glareshield, go Piper. If you're a stickler for an "airliner-like" throttle quadrant, go Piper. If you like more than one door, go Cessna. If you like to look down with an unobstructed view, go Cessna. If you like to turn your head and see where you're turning, go Piper.

Great summary!



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
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