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Topic: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 04:14:05 and read 5215 times.

Hey all,

Pro photog here, but new at airliner pics.

Geez, this site makes it difficult. Impossible menus, pulldowns that need to be selected laboriously for every picture, and so on. Like I shot 100 pics yesterday at YYZ, and do I really want to manually select the location and date 100 times? It'll take all day.

See here for a few samples: http://blog.michaelwillems.ca/2010/05/25/shooting-airplanes/

Anyway, to the questions.

1. Any tips for YYZ? I was at the base of rwy 24R yesterday and that was fine for "impact" pics, but for more neutral pics I'd like to be shooting more sideways, but without fences in the eway. Tips?

2. What are the recent runway usage rules at YYZ? What is the current list of tower freqs? I was missing one in my scanner and had to scramble to manually program it - nightmare. Suggestions welcome.

3. Any other tips for a pro who is new to airliner shooting?

Cheers,
Michael

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: stevemchey
Posted 2010-05-25 05:07:11 and read 5180 times.

Hi Michael,

I am not familiar with YYZ, but I can comment on the more general aspect of uploading pics to a.net.

First of, as a new a.net photographer, you have a certain limit of photos you can upload at once (I think it is 5 at the beginning). So although filling out the details can be cumbersome, you don't have to do it 100 times. Also, when you prefill the registration and airport code at the top of the screen, most fields get pre-populated for you.

Secondly, as a pro photographer, you will likely have to adjust your pictures to "a.net standards", which are quite different from how most photographers look at pictures. Looking at your blog, I am sorry to say that most of your shots would get a "motive" rejection here. I am definitely not saying your images are bad, I am just trying to give you a heads up that requirements here are very specific. There has been a push for more "creative" shots lately, but I am not sure if any of your shots would fall in that category.

I would recommend you take a look at the photos in the database to see what the general styles of photos accepted here are. And if you have samples you would like to run by other photogs before uploading, post them in the Photography Feedback forum. People there are super helpful.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 05:59:25 and read 5145 times.

Well, I uploaded two pics, and had to go through everything twice: nothing at all was prepopulated.

As for "motive" - not sure what that means. In the usual sense of the word motive, my intention is certainly to make shots creative and not just boring - if this site only wants boring shots of aircraft landing, shot from aside, as the wheels touch the runway, then I guess I am out of here and will not be posting. Shame.

I would still love input on the questions I had, from anyone who knows YYZ.

By the way I used to be a ppl, have 250 hours in Cessnas, in places as diverse as the UK, Netherlands, Florida, California, Toronto, Calgary, Alice Springs, and Hong Kong. so I do understand what goes on when I listen to the scanner  

Cheers, and thanks for the feedback,
Michael

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: dvincent
Posted 2010-05-25 06:39:34 and read 5130 times.

I wouldn't see why the A320 underbelly wouldn't be accepted assuming it was cropped the way screeners like it. It seems like a pretty neat shot to me.

The auto-fill works by entering the registration of the aircraft (e.g. C-GWEN) and the airport code (CYYZ) into the two auto fill fields at the top and click "Auto-fill." Assuming that the reg and location are in the database, the aircraft and airport info fields will fill themselves in with the proper data.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 06:51:46 and read 5127 times.

Quoting mwillems (Thread starter):
Any tips for http://spottingatyyz.blogspot.com/
Two additional spots for 24L - the Hertz employee parking lot on Silver Dart (go on foot only), and a restaurant parking lot on International Blvd which is unused during the day

also http://www.contrailsphotography.com/spottingyyz.html but this hasn't been updated for years, 3 runways are missing.
The info for the 'old' runways still holds though.

[Edited 2010-05-25 06:52:32]

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: stevemchey
Posted 2010-05-25 08:25:54 and read 5077 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 2):
then I guess I am out of here and will not be posting. Shame

Don't shoot the messenger...   I know how you feel, that's why I wanted to give you a heads up about what the site is looking for and accepts. I for example upload pictures to a.net that I think fit on this site and keep my fun/experimental/artistic shot on flickr. I understand that a.net historically comes from a "aircraft documentation" and not necessarily from "artistic photography" background. While this is changing a little, it is the cause of lots of the photo requirements here. As I said in my first post (and as dvincent pointed out), some of your shots certainly have a chance of being accepted.

Just to show that creativity and a.net do go together, I want to share some shots of my favorite photographer here, INNflight.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography



As to YYC, LiveATC.net might have some resources that can help you with spotting at there. Just do a search for YYC and you will get live feeds to the tower/departures/arrivals as well as their frequencies. Spotterswiki.com might be another another good spotters resource, but it seems to be down a lot lately.

Hope you decide to stick around... would be a shame to lose a skilled photographer.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 08:30:30 and read 5073 times.

Hmm.. don't know what I did to screw up my post. Hope it's still legible  

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: stevemchey
Posted 2010-05-25 08:32:36 and read 5074 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 2):
As for "motive" - not sure what that means.

Sorry, I have so gotten used to the a.net lingo... here is an overview of the screening criteria for this site:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejection_reasons.php?#types-of-images

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 09:22:44 and read 5034 times.

A rejection should not be simply for "motive" without additional reason(s) as per the link.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 10:49:35 and read 4993 times.

Quoting saintex (Reply 8):
A rejection should not be simply for "motive" without additional reason(s) as per the link.

If in the shot, as part of the motive, you centered the plane in the upper left hand corner. But there was no real reason to do so (I.E. nothing interesting to warrant the off-center motive), they would reject for motive, centered.

EDIT: Just noticed that was saintex and not the OP, so that's not addressed at you, saint.

[Edited 2010-05-25 10:57:42]

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 11:04:24 and read 4985 times.

@dvincent: I did not see any "auto-fill" field.
@Jetmatt: I'll respectfully disagree that there's no reason, nothing interesting, etc.
Seems to me that all existing pics for the aircraft I submitted were very standard shots ; at takeoff, at landing, from the side, telephoto. A wide angle shot would show the plane from a different perspective from all the others, in these cases. Anyway we'll see.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 11:08:59 and read 4983 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 10):
@Jetmatt: I'll respectfully disagree that there's no reason, nothing interesting, etc.

Well, you don't have to convince me, the screeners are the ones who decide. And that is the way it is. There needs to be something there to warrant the off-centering. And there's no set rule -- it's case by case. If it 'works' then it will be accepted.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 11:23:52 and read 4965 times.

That's fine, we'll wait and see. No problem either way: it just occurred to me that a few new shots of the aircraft I pictured (all of whose other pictures were very standard) would be welcome. If not, then fine, on with my day. Not sure I can warrant a lot of unpaid work, anyway.

Meanwhile, anyone with more info about YYZ, most welcome.

Cheers,
Michael

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 11:26:35 and read 4960 times.

@Steve: it's YYZ, and I'll follow the link - thanks.
@Saintex: it was 24R yesterday; only 23 and 24R were in use. Any good vantage points for 23?

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: dvincent
Posted 2010-05-25 11:34:45 and read 4955 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 10):
@dvincent: I did not see any "auto-fill" field.

It's like, the first thing in the upload page.

autocomplete


See where it says Auto Complete? There's a field for registration and airport code. Enter in the reg (N514UA, for instance) and airport code (e.g. KBDL) and press Get Info. So long as that info is already uploaded into a.net, it should populate the aircraft and airport fields with all of the proper data. I'd go mad if that feature wasn't there.  

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 13:55:54 and read 4918 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 12):
Meanwhile, anyone with more info about YYZ, most welcome.

After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: WakeTurbulence
Posted 2010-05-25 16:12:40 and read 4886 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

I'm going to agree with that. Just a few things I have seen from your website and posts here:
1. Thread Title - "Pro Photographer" - Maybe it's just me, but putting that in your title makes you sound stupid, also it doesn't really matter what you are here, as long as your photos are good by Airliners.net standards.
2. Complaining about the menus - There are clear auto complete boxes at the top of the upload page. Take some time to read the 'Upload FAQ' and 'Rejection Guide or Editing In Photoshop.' Maybe because you are a pro, you don't need to though.
3. Quote from you on your blog -

"One more comment: Don’t try to take creative pictures and post them to http://www.airliners.net: they, I am told, only want non-creative, boring shots.

Personally, I think you need both. Straight “architectural” shots, and wide, dramatic shots. Why people would want to see 100 shots of the same airlines all shot in exactly the same manner is beyond me, but I suppose aircraft fanatics are not creative people.

So if you want to go there, go boring: shoot from the side with a long lens, as the aircraft is landing or taking off. Your airlines shot will be exactly like everyone else’s."


First, this site evolved from a database to a database/photography website. Shooting slide film of side on after side on was the tradition that got this site started. Thankfully, the site has opened up the rules to include much more creative photos, and thus is currently the best (or one of the best however you look at it) aviation photography website in the world. You will be hard pressed to find a more complete database, along with thousands of creative and inspiring shots as well.

Second, no offense but you didn't post any shots that were very creative. Were they a slide type shot, no, but were they groundbreaking in any way, also no. People have been shooting aircraft like the one's you posted for a long time, including myself.

I would post pictures here, but it seems like a waste of time as you already have your mind made up about the site and can't waste time shooting things for fun (even though you posted that in your blog as well).
-Matt

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 16:14:40 and read 4886 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 13):
only 23 and 24R were in use. Any good vantage points for 23?

Locations 7,8 and 9 on the contrails site are still good although the 'hill' they refer to is long gone and you will now be ejected from the private parking garage. From about 4pm onwards (sun position) there is a lesser-known location: a large open space in the industrial area along Northwest Avenue at the E. intersection of Caravelle Drive.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 16:22:23 and read 4880 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

Nobody likes having their work criticised or rejected; especially if it seems offhanded.

The standards here are very high (too high for me   ) and frankly, none of Michael's submissions are up to scratch. Some of the creative work here is outstanding, a newbie needs a thick skin and perserverance to break in.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 16:31:24 and read 4871 times.

Quoting saintex (Reply 18):
Nobody likes having their work criticised or rejected; especially if it seems offhanded.

People need to get over this notion that they are doing the website a favor by uploading, it's the database giving you the favor by giving you free unlimited hosting and bandwidth (paid accounts do not change any photo features from an uploading standpoint), as well as hard to compete with traffic levels.

So, toss all the dirt you want, say A.net sucks and has no creative mentality - your loss not ours or the site's.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 16:59:05 and read 4859 times.

Geez, such vitriol. The posts I denied on my blog were also very personal, all about how bad a photographer I am.

Guess, what, I shoot for a living. If people here do not like it, fine, that goes both ways, I am not all that impressed with most of the shots I have seen here. The ones posted above were very nice, but none of the aircraft I shot yesterday had anything even approaching this: I looked them up, and frankly, there were only "straight" shots of them (sideways landing). And yes, I am very sorry, but I can only say what I think: I think those are rather boring. That's why I uploaded the ones I did. I am sure there are great creative shots out there, but not of any of the aircraft I shot yesterday (I checked about ten of them).

Pro makes me sounds stupid? You guys really like slinging insults, don't you? We call that an "ad hominem" attack, and it is a sign of weakness. Photography is what I do for a living, and the post is a quick summary of who I am. I do not need to learn how to focus, or how to expose, how to choose a lens, or how to use my camera's menus: nothing wrong with that (I teach photography, so I teach people who have exactly these needs) but I was trying to explain that that is not the help I need. If that sounds stupid, so be it.

Complaining abut the menus: well, sorry, but this is a very cumbersome site. I worked in IT for ten years (does that make me stupid also?) and if there was an auto-cmplete box, I missed it several times.

And yes, when I put my time, $30k of equipment, and decades of experience shooting at the disposal of anyone for free, then yes, I am doing something nice. Break in? I was just doing the 'net a favour guys, uploading some pics of aircraft that had no interesting pics. And no, bandwidth and fame in the aviation community will not do anything for me. Free unlimited hosting? All my web sites re unlimited bandwidth. I am sure that is a benefit for some, but not for me.

Yes, I am disappointed at this community, except at the people above who actually helped - thanks guys.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: photopilot
Posted 2010-05-25 17:03:25 and read 4854 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

We'll see how he likes my comments on his blog.
"What a load of crock. Like a snake oil salesman, you “talk” a good game but when it comes to producing outstanding aviation photography, you simply fell short. So…. you blast the A.net website and blame everybody else for your shortcomings. Frankly, IMHO, none of your aviation images are up to snuff and don’t make it on A.net, and frankly, have little commercial value to anybody knowledgeable. Oh, and I do know of what I speak having won both of North America’s premier Aviation Photography Contests and being a former Senior Aviation Photographer with Bombardier Aerospace. Those that can…. do. Those that can’t, whine about it. Would you like some cheese with your whine?
"

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: saintex
Posted 2010-05-25 17:05:25 and read 4849 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
your loss not ours or the site's.

Moi ? Methinks you mistake me for another.  

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 17:13:52 and read 4840 times.

Quoting saintex (Reply 22):
Moi ? Methinks you mistake me for another.

I was agreeing with you, second statement was at the OP. Makes it twice now! lol  

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: dvincent
Posted 2010-05-25 17:14:43 and read 4838 times.

Michael,

I think you just got started off on the wrong foot. Coming into an established community takes a little bit of give-and-take. I don't know much about YYZ (as I live in Boston), but if you need some help or advice on the site side of things, I or others would be more than happy to give you some direction. Getting into this website isn't the easiest thing. It'll take a little bit to adjust to what screeners are looking for. It's not an impugnment on your skills or talent as a photographer.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 17:17:13 and read 4857 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 20):
And yes, when I put my time, $30k of equipment, and decades of experience shooting at the disposal of anyone for free, then yes, I am doing something nice. Break in? I was just doing the 'net a favour guys, uploading some pics of aircraft that had no interesting pics. And no, bandwidth and fame in the aviation community will not do anything for me. Free unlimited hosting? All my web sites re unlimited bandwidth. I am sure that is a benefit for some, but not for me.

Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Like I said, not our loss. I'm sure the unmentionable site would love to host your photos, oh, but wait....they also share most of the same standards as this site does as far as centering and motive go.

S*** Out Of Luck and Jolly Well F****d

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 17:41:42 and read 4841 times.

Guys.... some real haters here? The nice people above notwithstanding, of course.

"The unmentionable site" Are there site wars going on here between aviation photography sites? What sort of hornet's nest did I enter into? I just thought I;d posta few nice pictures and some people might like them. I spent all afternoon doing it.

I have received more hate mail in the last day than ever in my life, all because I find the existing pictures that I looked up of the aircraft I shot boring. That is an opinion, and it is allowed, and it should never result in ad hominem attacks. If a student sends me stuff I do not like, I try to be constructive... I would not dream in my wildest dreams of engaging in the kind of personal hate mail I have received in the last 24 hours.

I looked again at my pics (the 60 I chose out of the 600 I shot). I still think they are good. One is now my Mac's desktop background. I photograph for a living, and I teach photography, but I will not say that this gives me the right to be nasty and mean to those who disagree. You can validly disagree, and you can find my pictures bad. That is your right. You can believe that all verticals should be vertical in pictures: that is your right too, and that objects must be centered unless there is a "valid"reason not to - and stuff about motive (I am still not quite sure what that means) - all those are opinions you can have. Just like I can validly have the opposite opinion.

But what you cannot do if you want to be a civilized human is to be mean. Ad hominem attacks are that: nasty and mean. Look at the words above: aren't you ashamed?

No, I fear not. Some of you here are kind and helpful, but the hate mail I have received (and some of the stuff above) convinces me that this is a very sick community. I was just trying to help... and no, indeed I shall not post pictures again here. If the intention was to chase people away, the haters won. As they so often do.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 17:43:15 and read 4865 times.

@dvincent: that is a nice reaction - thanks. Rather than attack my web (or photographic) skills, you agree it's not an easy site (it's not) and you offer to help. Thanks.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 17:45:12 and read 4853 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 26):
I have received more hate mail in the last day than ever in my life, all because I find the existing pictures that I looked up of the aircraft I shot boring. That is an opinion, and it is allowed, and it should never result in ad hominem attacks. If a student sends me stuff I do not like, I try to be constructive... I would not dream in my wildest dreams of engaging in the kind of personal hate mail I have received in the last 24 hours.

We were helping you at first, but then you go criticize the community around here and critique OUR work as it's not important because your name is not under it. You think you are doing us a favor by insulting OUR work, because it's not up to YOUR standards. I think you need to do a serious reality check, sir.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 26):
Look at the words above: aren't you ashamed?

As you stand by what you have said about our community, I will stand by what I say. I'll be the first one to retract and ask for a full apology if you take back your initial comments about our community and the work we have put into it.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 18:07:49 and read 4853 times.

Jetmatt: Ad hominem means one criticises people. I do not and did not. I criticise the nature of the pictures I saw, but never the people who take them. I criticise opinions but never the people who hold them. Surely you see there is a big difference? Also, I can criticize a site, and be pretty scathing - but never using some of the words I saw above...

Anyway let's all cool off. Time for a bit of finishing of client shoots...

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2010-05-25 18:12:53 and read 4848 times.

And it's offensive when an outside comes in here, tosses around their overinflated ego, and tells us why his photos are better than the one's who have actually successfully uploaded here.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 29):
Ad hominem means one criticises people. I do not and did not.

   See this:

Quoting your blog:
but I suppose aircraft fanatics are not creative people.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-25 20:20:12 and read 4809 times.

Ad hominem: you are doing it again. Attacking me for opinions. "Aircraft fanatics" is not you. Ad hominem - that is Latin, and it means a ***personal*** insult. Unless your name was in there, it's not personal.

You know, I am going to see how to delete my record here (that too seems difficult) and afetr I succeed in dong that, I shall never be back. "Good riddance", we will both say. You will say good riddance to someone who disagrees with you: I will say good riddance to mean, nasty, bullies who mean to hurt someone who just tried to help. Incredible!

Cheers,
Michael

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: INNflight
Posted 2010-05-25 23:32:31 and read 4760 times.

Now.... I'll give it a go and try to be constructive ( geez...gonna be hard!   


First off, everyone has a hard time getting stuff accepted, especially when you're new (not in photography), but to this particular site.
I disagree with the boring comment of yours obviously, but can see your point about the site being a tad restrictive about creative shots, really, I feel that myself. However they are improving.

Now about the photos (and I am not questioning your personal taste / style, but just pointing out why they would not be accepted)...

The first one is a nice head-on wide angle, however I think no one is sure what you're trying to show. The foreground is cluttered, and more distracting than adding to the frame, there's just nothing going on that would be worth looking imo. Plus, the light is not very attractive, but a polarizer could have "pumped it up" a bit.

2nd and 3rd, I just don't like, but I guess you more put them there to make the telephoto point, right.

Now, as for all the other wide angle ones, two things that strike me:


- What's up with the phone booth?! Doesn't add anything to the frame, has absolutely no meaning for this shot. No point in having it there. They don't look carefully composed to me, but more like randomly snapped. Not meant insulting obviously.

You may not realize, but this site actually has a few photographers who earn their living by shooting pro (not anything, but just aviation). It's a very small niche, and while you call most here boring, you'll just maybe find that they are way more skilled when it comes to aviation photography than you are.

As you said in the title, you may be a pro shooting something else, but def. a beginner when it comes to aircraft. Live and learn - or don't.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: INNflight
Posted 2010-05-25 23:38:20 and read 4762 times.

Btw:

It's not like it's never been done before, so maybe take a look at these two...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hongyin Huo
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hongyin Huo



First one has nicer light, a lower point of view, looks balanced and has great impact with regards to the height of the jet.

2nd one has nicer colours with regards to the sky and the foreground, plus shows a ton of people doing their thing.


...just saying really.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: viv
Posted 2010-05-26 06:32:44 and read 4670 times.

Oh dear, what an unhappy thread!

In summary, a newcomer arrives, states he is a pro photographer with flight and IT experience, and asks for help regarding a specific airport.

Strangely, this multi-talented individual cannot seem to master the autofill system on the photo upload page, but I digress.

Unfortunately, perhaps having read the adverse comments on his webpage regarding Anet, some here resort to ad hominem comment.

Me, I consider it totally irrelevant whether an uploader is a pro photographer, or what other talents or expertise he may have.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I await with interest the outcome of the screening process on the shots uploaded by our multi-talented newcomer. Is he for real? Or is he all mouth and no trousers? Time will tell.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: photopilot
Posted 2010-05-26 14:41:15 and read 4560 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 26):
.............He is licensed by PPOC and is a senior photography instructor at Ontario’s main photography teaching school.

First off PPOC (Professional Photographers of Canada) does NOT license photographers. I think they'd be surprised to see someone "marketing" themselves with this s-t-r-e-t-c-h- of the truth and using their good name this way. As a past PPOC "member" I think I'll point this out to my friends down there.

Oh, and Ontario's "main photography teaching school".         
Just for curiosity, when did the Henry's School of Digital Imaging attain that status? Ever hear of Sheridan, Humber, Ryerson, etc. Does Henry's now grant degrees in photography? Thought not!

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 30):
And it's offensive when an outside comes in here, tosses around their overinflated ego, and tells us why his photos are better than the one's who have actually successfully uploaded here.

Overinglated ego? RIGHT ON!!!!               

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: mwillems
Posted 2010-05-26 18:51:43 and read 4498 times.

Geez, more hate! I have hit a nerve, eh.

Just came back because I clicked on the link on my blog. Guys, LPPO means having attained Licentiate status from Professional Photographers of Ontario. Not just a member. And pretty sure that Henry's trains more students than the other schools put together. It's not the only teaching I do, but it's great.

Viv: "Strangely, this multi-talented individual cannot seem to master the autofill system on the photo upload page". Well, mea culpa I suppose. I am an engineer and worked in IT for decades, and no, saw no autofill fields. Hey, I'm fallible, mate, or maybe they don't show up for new members. Who knows.

Cheers,
M

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: photopilot
Posted 2010-05-26 19:40:29 and read 4481 times.

Quoting mwillems (Reply 36):
Geez, more hate! I have hit a nerve, eh.

Just came back because I clicked on the link on my blog. Guys, LPPO means having attained Licentiate status from Professional Photographers of Ontario. Not just a member. And pretty sure that Henry's trains more students than the other schools put together. It's not the only teaching I do, but it's great.

Oh WOW!!!!......

Your own website says "licensed by the PPOC" when in fact, as I pointed out, that's simply not true as PPOC does not licence photographers.

Now, it's LPPO, or licentiate status with PPO (Professional Photographers of Ontario). And how do you get LPPO and what does it really mean?
From PPO's website....
Once your application has been approved you will become an affiliate member. Affiliates are not allowed to vote, or to advertise their membership in PPO. To have full rights and to remain a member, you must meet the employment income criteria and you must submit samples of your work and have them accepted by the Qualification Board of Examiners within four years of joining. You then achieve Licentiate (LPPO) status and are then entitled to advertise your membership in PPO.
So....... LPPO really means that you're now allowed to advertise your PPO membership. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing to do with PPOC.
So go ahead Mike and stretch the truth as much as you wish. We're not impressed here!

Oh, and at the PPOC level, your status is.....
Michael is Nationally Accredited in : TRAVEL/ILLUSTRATION (PPOC)
* Accreditation denotes the first elevation above the general membership level, and is achieved by submitting samples of the applicant's photography to a PPOC Board of Review.
Accredited in ONE out of 84 Categories. We're all duly impressed. Actually, I'm sure that a majority of the photographers on this website would easily beat that number. When you denigrate them and this website, walk in like a bigshot, you get the respect you deserve.... not much.

Quoting mwillems (Thread starter):
Hey all,
Pro photog here, but new at airliner pics.

Geez, this site makes it difficult. Impossible menus, pulldowns that need to be selected laboriously for every picture, and so on. Like I shot 100 pics yesterday at YYZ, and do I really want to manually select the location and date 100 times? It'll take all day.

Considering how you introducted yourself to this site, I'd say you got the appropriate response. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: megatop412
Posted 2010-05-26 21:09:20 and read 4446 times.

Wow, this thread is still going strong. I think everyone can agree on one thing at least: that there is way too much energy being wasted by both sides when it should instead be spent practicing the craft.

Each side has its valid points. And the other knows it. Willems, I share your frustrations about getting shots uploaded/accepted. Personally, I am a stubborn SOB. In my mind, having had a look at the last 10 pages of recent uploads and seeing several shots where I went "Huh? How did THAT shot make it?", I feel there is no good reason to have this shot of mine just get rejected for quality, size, and color:

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...ilename=w1274326278.6045aa767b.jpg

But, I didn't break a five minute mile bitching at my coach about it. I got pissed off and kept at it until it happened. The shot above is actually a resubmission, and I managed to eliminate 4 of the original 7 rejection reasons by starting over. In some ways, this site has gotten very, very particular in what it accepts, while others seem to have shots with what looks like a complete lack of "motive" get accepted time and time again. Strange. And for me, maddening.

I can see the a.net community tried to help you as it has tried to assist me. I looked at your blog and you are certainly no slouch as a photographer. But it was plainly obvious you were, shall we say, brusque in asserting those skills. You have stumbled upon what many, many people have encountered here- the enigma that is a.net, and made no mistake in voicing your displeasure with it. In short, you came on real strong and put a lot of folks on the defensive. It is as if you walked into a party filled with strangers and just said "Whose idea was it to get a pony keg? That was dumb." And I say all this as someone who has not yet had a single acceptance here, so I'm not in the business of kissing anyone's ass about it.

Now dang it, if anyone can tell me what on Earth is still wrong with my 7-6 departure shot then fire away and let's get back to the business of shooting heavy metal.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: stevemchey
Posted 2010-05-26 22:08:54 and read 4428 times.

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 38):
Each side has its valid points.

I fully agree with you here William. There are some really strong opinions here on both sides. But I have to say I was quite disappointed in Michael's strong response here AND his blog immediately after I tried to give constructive feedback. But I could care less... no need to waste energy. I rather focus on helping people that are interested... which brings me to:

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 38):
Now dang it, if anyone can tell me what on Earth is still wrong with my 7-6 departure shot then fire away and let's get back to the business of shooting heavy metal.

You mentioned that it was rejected for "quality, size, and color". I will skip the quality part, because I myself have my troubles with that one sometimes. But size is an easy one: You image is 1280x683 pixels, which is not an accepted size on a.net. The accepted ratios are 4:3 or 3:2, which can be found in the Rejection Guide (this link was listed right below your rejection reason in the rejection email   )
When it comes to color, I certainly see a blue cast. Make sure you have a correctly calibrated monitor when editing your shots, because otherwise you might get color rejections a lot.

I hope this feedback helps. Looking forward to seeing your first accepted shot soon.

Topic: RE: Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc
Username: b737200
Posted 2010-05-27 01:58:03 and read 4383 times.

I wasn't going to say anything at first but certain comments pushed me into it.

I am not going to comment on the quality of the photos themselves since all of mine tend to be rather simple uncreative shots. Not that I'm not happy when they get accepted and spotting is great fun either way but there are others who are better suited to judge them than I am.

However since I have a working brain I can comment on the above argument. I think we can all calm down a bit, however the thread starter should note that we aren't attacking his opinions or his right to have them, we are offended by his attitude which to me at least comes across as condescending. He seems offended by our attacks which he termed as personal, to a certain extent they are, because the problem, in my eyes at least, was HIS behaviour, which is unfortunately a personal trait.

As for some advice to the thread starter for understanding us:
As you said we are "airplane fanatics", some may prefer airplane enthusiasts or whatever, I personally don't really care. That is the point of the site, the airplanes and aviation, so the boring shots on a.net are not boring to use because they show lovely 777s and 747s and A330s and A340s, etc, etc...

The creative shots on here, again manage to really bring across aviation, albeit in different, original ways. However to a certain extent you may still fail to understand them like we do because you aren't an airplane fanatic. Just because you have a ppl doesn't mean you are, I love flying and love the planes themselves, for others flying is great and the plane is a tool.

Anyway that is my humble opinion which I felt I should state seeing that I am part of the community and felt that I should defend it.


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