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Topic: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: Garyck
Posted 2010-12-15 22:50:08 and read 3731 times.

I have started this thread here instead of the feedback forum as I feel this is the best place. (Mods feel free to move)

(This is a copy of an edited e-mail that I sent to a screener last week, But as of yet had no reply, They might be away.)

I've uploaded and had accepted ZK075 and ZK076, Both Typoon's destined for the Saudi Airforce via Malta. They both show the British Reg and Saudi Reg as well as Saudi Airforce titles. I once had a rejection for trying to upload a Saudi Airforce Typoon and Reg because it had a British Reg, and was still at BAE Systems Warton. I was informed it should be UK reg & UK Airforce after e-mailing a screener over the it. Theoretically they are still BritIsh untill the Delivery is done in Saudi, Something might co tech and Saudi reject it till its repaired.

The same aircraft are in the DB now with two/three different reg's/keepers - Which one is actually correct?


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Photo © Gary Claridge-king


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Photo © Brian Pace Malta


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Photo © Peter Tonna



The reason I ask is that the next two are planned for Thursday (this took place last week) Are they Saudi Airforce? Again Technically, they are not UK Airforce as the UK never own them, they are built my BAE Systems, but have to carry a UK Military registration.

So perhaps the correct way should be UK reg and Saudi Airforce.

Sorry if this sounds silly, I was a little shocked to see an aircraft in the DB for the same reason I once had one rejected, I will add, there was a secondary rejection for colour too.

So to round this off, I've just had a rejection for incorrect registration - I uploaded it as ZK078/310 UK Air Force
http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...filename=r1291927039.7775zk078.jpg

As mentioned at the top of this thread I had two accepted two weeks ago under the britsh reg and UK Airforce, so whats changed? Very confusing for all? Should I appeal as is showing the correct reg (s)

Just checked the DB ZK078 is now in a stand alone reg, with no ref to the second reg its displaying 310 under Saudi Airforce.


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Photo © Malcolm J.Bezzina



When she departed. she went with her sister ZK077 / 309 - This is also in the DB under two different reg's

ZK077/309

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Photo © Malcolm J.Bezzina



309/ZK077

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Photo © Peter Tonna



Gary

[Edited 2010-12-15 22:52:58]

[Edited 2010-12-15 23:03:54]

[Edited 2010-12-15 23:07:01]

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: dazbo5
Posted 2010-12-16 01:43:01 and read 3698 times.

Hi Gary,

An interesting debate! When I was at Warton for the deliveries before the last one you went to, I uploaded the photos of ZK073 as Saudi Arabia - Air Force, not UK.


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Photo © Darren Wilson
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Photo © Darren Wilson



To me, even though the aircraft is on a UK registration, it's still in the Saudi Arabia - Air Force livery and should be uploaded as such. The ones I uploaded were accepted without issue being the first photos on the database of that airframe. To give a counter argument to what you've been emailed from a screener, if a new Airbus on a test / delivery registration in France is uploaded, or a Boeing in Seattle for that matter, it's uploaded based on the livery it is displaying, not Airbus / Boeing.

Darren

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: Garyck
Posted 2010-12-16 01:54:52 and read 3696 times.

So, in that case my rejection last night for incorrect reg is wrong, but should've been rejected for incorrect operator? is that right?

Gary

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: dazbo5
Posted 2010-12-16 02:08:51 and read 3695 times.

Hi Gary,

Only the screening team / database editors can answer that one, but to me, your photo shouldn't have been rejected for incorrect information. Once the airframe is with Saudi under the Saudi registration, that's different but if it's still under the UK reg with Saudi titles, that's the information I would upload with. It can't be UK Airforce as it's not an aircraft destined for the UK or in the UK livery.

Darren

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: Garyck
Posted 2010-12-16 02:13:54 and read 3692 times.

I uploaded it as UK Reg and Operator as UK Air Force as that was what I was told many month ago following a rejection, as mentioned I have two in the DB as UK Reg and UK Air Force, even though they are showing Saudi titles.  

But you are right, It need a Screener to confirm on how these delivery flights are to be uploaded to the DB. Just to confuse matters, At Warton we get them flying fresh off the production line still in primer, No saudi Titles or Saudi Reg, but a UK Reg. Here is one loaded up as Saudi Airforce......


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Photo © Neil Bury



[Edited 2010-12-16 02:21:25]

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: dlowwa
Posted 2010-12-16 02:34:21 and read 3687 times.

Gary, I can partially address your question. I was the one who rejected the photo in question, and the problem was that you input the reg. as ZK078/310 not as ZK078 or 310. All of the photos you have linked have one or the other as the reg., but you had both. This is easy to confirm by clicking on the reg. link of your rejected image, and you will find 0 hits, when obviously yours is not the first shot. Now in regards to which reg. (and title) should be used, I will defer to the editors. Again, the rejection was not for choosing the wrong reg., just for inputting it incorrectly, just as if I had uploaded a shot with the reg. ZA591/058 instead of simply ZA591.

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: Garyck
Posted 2010-12-16 03:02:56 and read 3685 times.

Quoting dlowwa (Reply 5):
the problem was that you input the reg. as ZK078/310 not as ZK078 or 310.

I see, when looking in the data base of some Saudi Typoons, it reads ZKxxx / xxx, so I thought thats how you had to upload them. Not realising you upload them as ZKxxx or xxx. I didn't actually realise you could upload and aircraft with two possible reg's.

It seems like a small can of worms, but I have got myself confused over it all. An Editors input to this would be great.

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: kukkudrill
Posted 2010-12-16 08:29:06 and read 3648 times.

Gary,

I think what dlowwa is saying is that you can input the registration as either ZK078 or as 310, but you cannot enter both together. Personally speaking I would enter the RSAF serial as the registration, since the British ZK*** serial is applied temporarily for delivery purposes only.

Images on a.net show up as "ZK078 / 310" (or "310 / ZK078") if the alternative reg is inputted as a code. The code field is normally used for tail numbers or identification letters on military aircraft and is separate from the registration field.

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: dlowwa
Posted 2010-12-16 08:40:58 and read 3643 times.

Quoting Garyck (Reply 6):
I see, when looking in the data base of some Saudi Typoons, it reads ZKxxx / xxx

That's just how it is displayed. Click on the 'Cross-data search' link on any of the examples you have posted and you will see that all of the registrations are entered as separate fields, either ZKxxx or xxx, none are combined. Again, your mistake was a typographical one, akin to entering GVIIK instead of G-VIIK. The 'can of worms' is only about which registration to enter, not if you can enter both - entering both is not an option.

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: Garyck
Posted 2010-12-16 10:29:58 and read 3628 times.

   Its finally sunk in.    Thanks guys.

So now I get that bit, I would've thought that the best way forward is to submit Saudi Liveried Typoons with the Saudi Reg and then put the UK in the Code box, But add Saudi destined Primer typoons as just the British reg as there will no Saudi titles at the time, just the serial under the cockpit window....... When in Primer they have RAF roundals and tail logo..........Does this make it UK Airforce or still Saudi Air Force (View Neils Primer shot further up the thread)

Gary

[Edited 2010-12-16 10:37:30]

Topic: RE: Saudi Air Force Deliveries & Registrations
Username: dazbo5
Posted 2010-12-17 01:27:41 and read 3581 times.

Quoting Garyck (Reply 9):
Does this make it UK Airforce or still Saudi Air Force (View Neils Primer shot further up the thread)

To me, UK Air Force doesn't even come in to it if it's an aircraft not destined for the RAF. It's still with BAE Systems at that point so can never be UK Air Force. If it's in primer with no other markings, it should be Untitled (Saudi Arabia - Air Force), assuming that's who the customer is to me. Again refer to how you would upload an Airbus or Boeing in primer.

Darren


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