SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 69 Reply 1, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
I note that the thread has been read 41 times and this is the first response. I just clicked on it to see what a "calssier" was. If you meant "classier" I understand it now.
I am not one to believe that B&W photos are inherently superior to color. I think they have to be a better composition than a given color photo to be superior. Here in the US, California wines are usually better than French on a dollar-for-dollar comparison but some people will just never admit that either.
The B&W photo shown is nice enough but it would have worked in color too. I still shoot some black and white. Using Ilford XP in one of my cameras and whatever I can find in my 4x5.
The "superiority" of Black and White is, in my opinion, kind of a fable. Not everyone who shoots B&W is an Ansel Adams. I like the work of Richard Steinheimer too, especially the steam locomotives. I believe that he may have used B&W just because finer grain was available than in the color film of the time. Still, I think we might agree that it would be nice to be able to search the site for black and white photos.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
EGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 37 Reply 2, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
I think in the cases of other subjects (particularly Portraits and nude photography), it is 'classier'. However, I don't think B&W really works with aviation, even if its a really artsy photo. Most of the better photos are very rich in colour.
ExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3223 times:
Black and white CAN be used in aviation photography and produce some stunning results. Just need to be creative and have a firm grasp of the fundamentals of contrast and tonal value. And in the following examples, EXCELLENT composition.
Skymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3207 times:
Fully support the thoughts already expressed... However, be aware that we have recently had some "clever" so-and-sos submit what are obviously digital pictures converted to grey (or for you guys in the US, gray!) scale. This does not, in the collective opinion of the screeners, accurately replicate black and white and therefore a fair number of such pictures have been rejected badcolor. So, by all means keep on submitting genuine black and white photos, but don't try and fake it please.
Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 659 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
B&W is neither "better" nor "classier" than colour - it is simply different.
B&W photography is much more about form, light & shadow than colour. Sometimes colour distracts from the shape of the object and destroys the composition. In other cases colour IS the subject, and in some the shot could be equally made in either B&W or colour. For example, sometimes I'll shoot a colourful biplane in B&W to give the shot a "period" feel. Which brings me to Andy's point:
digital pictures converted to grey (or for you guys in the US, gray!) scale. This does not, in the collective opinion of the screeners, accurately replicate black and white
I hope what is meant is that the screeners are (rightly) rejecting simple grey scale conversions. It is true that this is not the same as a B&W image as some additional curve manipulation is required. I hope Andy didn't mean that we musn't submit B&W shots just because they were taken with a digital camera. As explained above, it is the subject & composition that should determine whether or not to use B&W, not the camera.
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 52 Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3091 times:
To add to Andy's comments.... recently it seems a handful of photogs have even resorted to converting their images to B&W when the color version has been rejected. Many of these have also been rejected for badcolor or scan.
Bruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5034 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3084 times:
I dont understand.......are you saying that a digital image in which you discard color information/channels in photoshop is not as good as shooting in b/w film? Then how do you correctly turn a digital image into black/white?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3074 times:
Bruce- I don't know anything about actually shooting in B&W, but I do know that not everyone knows how to correctly do it and/or convert in PS. Done right I think B&W photography can be very classy... I know a guy who does weddings in B&W and his stuff looks great. You gotta have an eye for it I guess...
Heliporter From Switzerland, joined Jul 2003, 140 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3052 times:
Sometimes a bit strange ... I see only pixels (.jpg) here at a.net and I'm really wonder why a screener should deal with the original medium (slide, negative, print, b&w, glasplate ...). The matter here should be good quality VIEWING PLEASURE and nothing else ... IMO.
Markus Herzig - Swiss Helicopters, Pilatus Porter and Aviation Photography
Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 659 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3042 times:
Bruse - the response curve of B&W and colour film is quite different - whereas colour film needs to treat all colours equally. B&W tends to be slightly oversensitive to blue and undersensitive to green/yellow. So simply grey-scaling colour does not produce a B&W type tone curve.
In practice, grey-scaled images look rather flat - they lack the contrast & sparkle expected from quality B&W images. To get a good result, you need to play around with the individual colour channels - channel mixer in PS usually works well, but there are also a number of plugins you can get to do the job - often with B&W filter effects incorporated - I have seen (though not used) some which claim to reproduce the look of particular B&W films (eg. Tri-X, FP4 etc.)
On the few occasions I attempted to convert a few shots to B&W the simple/short cut way (the only way I knew how really), I tended to run into some of the shortcomings that Andy and Colin mentioned.
Were you able to do a simple conversion to B&W like Weitse mentioned earlier, or did you have to employ any plug-ins etc?
Also while those concorde shots are outstanding that Anthony pointed out, I am not certain they'd all pass these days. They might. But, I could imagine one or all getting hit with a Bad Size, and then, possibly, Bad Centered, or even Bad Dupe and Bad Dark as well. That was 1999.