KC7MMI From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 854 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
I'm not holding him responsible, I'm just saying that since this seems to involve a.net quite a bit, he should get involved. Here is a quote from the Use Photo link at the top "we do not appreciate and react strongly when finding our photos on other sites that use them without permission." So, where's the reaction? I am not holding Johan responsible, I'm just hoping he might get involved.
Administrator From Sweden, joined May 1999, 3251 posts. Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2560 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW SITE ADMIN
I do consider it my problem indirect. If companies keep steeling photos from Airliners.net photographers will stop uploading. There's a difficult balance between showing the images in all their glory to all our visitors and protecting them from misuse.
I do not get involved in contacting the copyright violating company however, that I leave to the photographer.
We have been discussing this issue extensively in the past and most agree this is a risk people are willing to take when uploading to Airliners.net. The rewards are bigger than the "costs" of risking misuse which happens relatively seldom. I do have some plans for the future however that could help the situation a bit, more about that at a later date.
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
Ebos From Belgium, joined Jul 2001, 520 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2413 times:
It's something we have to live with i'm afraid. It's balancing between the 'benefits' and the risks of misuse. Two concorde-pictures were used on stamps in two African countries... chances to take legal actions against those countries are nihil i'm afraid. So if you can't live with it, there's only one solution: no pictures on the internet.
For me the 'benefits' are much more important than the copyright violations. I learned to know many people through a.net and that's the most important for me. But everyone has to make that decision for himself.
An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
ExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2388 times:
If A.net, as a centralized organization, pursued violators as stringently as is worded in all the warning messages on the site, theft wouldn't be as prevalent a problem I think. As it now stands... those warnings are just hollow threats as most people that fall victim have no idea what next steps to take and probably don't have the time, infrastructure and abilities to pursue violators beyond a "hey... you stole my image!" e-mail.
All A.net would need to do is get some sort of legal pitbull who will defend us with the vigor of, say... Skymonster defending A.net in the forums, and we'd be in better shape as a group. Surely their must be someone associated with Luleå University that is knowledgeable in these issues. After all, A.net is the number one site, right? Surely someone could step up.
As many pro shooters know, the only way to defend yourself from these sorts of things is consistent, automatic legal action from an organized body. It carries so much more weight when a violator is confronted from a representative organization than just a single individual. For example, certain stock image firms have created a rap in the industry for pursuing violations of their photographers to the point that most designers and art directors in-the-know avoid thieving from them like the plague. It's not unlike the RIAA pursuing ANYONE that steals music. (Grandma's included.) They create an aura that persists to the point that makes some people think twice before stealing. It's by no means fail-safe. Theft WILL happen regardless... but at least it "looks" like you give a damn.
Again, it would require time, effort, organization and leadership beyond simple database scripts. Doing nothing, however, is by all means the easiest solution...
Lennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2370 times:
sort of legal pitbull who will defend us with the vigor of, say... Skymonster defending A.net in the forums Just the thought of it:
Re: I should have checked the Syrian website first. http://www.syrian-airlines.com The home domain is not available?
A traceroute is not getting very far either.....
Hmm, I wonder what has happened here?
Skymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2349 times:
The Adminstrator has spoken on this one so there's not much more to say!
However, to take up on a point made by ExitRow:
"certain stock image firms have created a rap in the industry for pursuing violations of their photographers to the point that most designers and art directors in-the-know avoid thieving from them like the plague"
Yes, and I bet those stock agencies charge a fairly hefty cut for their services, whereas a.net charges nothing. I suspect that legal representation of that nature doesn't come cheap but if William wants to start a legal fighting fund to which ALL photographers contribute on a regular basis, I'm sure we could set something up for ourselves
ExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2306 times:
The Adminstrator has spoken on this one so there's not much more to say!
Sure there is. It's called "collaberation" and "user feedback." I am sure Johan would love to hear the photographer's viewpoint. Our viewpoint IS important isn't it?
I suspect that legal representation of that nature doesn't come cheap
As I said in my previous post, perhaps this would make an excellent undergraduate project for a young, hungry law student looking for experience in copyright law. Then again... chances are a pursuit of a violation wouldn't get to the point of legal action in the majority of cases. You'd be amazed what a cease-and-desist order on an esquire's letterhead will do. Besides, I believe a firmly worded letter (yes... PAPER!) or e-mail (yes... NO PAPER!) from A.net would make a huge difference compared to doing nothing. Like I've said before, not only are image-lifters in violation of copyright, but in violation of this site's Terms of Service. The legal precedents must exist.
There are currently 10 database editors, 1 programmer, 1 article editor, 18 photo screeners, 12 forum moderators and even a marketing guy, but A.net can't find ONE person who'd be willing to help us defend our copyrights here? Put out a message in the forums. There are plenty of lawyers in the forums.
but if William wants to start a legal fighting fund to which ALL photographers contribute on a regular basis, I'm sure we could set something up for ourselves
It's really not about money. It's about resourcefulness. Finding the right people and creating the right kind of relationships (as in pro bono legal advice) is essential and potentially beneficial to everyone.
Ancient Chinese Proverb.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
No need to shy away from a solution with many benefits just because it requires hard work.