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Illegal Photo Usage, Is This My Image?  
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

Hi all,

Just after a little help and clarification before I go accusing an airline of stealing my image in writting!

Here is the site

http://www.iranair.com/genLnk/contact.do?c=i&rand=12769

and here is my image

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/186599/L/

Just a little help on whether or not you think that is my image they have used on their banner on the website?

Thanks in advance

Ben Pritchard

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4001 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

No doubt about it, it's yours!

Good luck on getting some money from them Big grin

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJT8D From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

It certainly looks like it Ben. Despite the small size and lack of detail in the banner, the resemblance to yours is unmistakable.

Graham



Graham Hitchen, KMIA
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

LOL... Good luck to you. I suspect that the Iranian courts will be very sympathetic to your cause!  Nuts

Andy


User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Yep, it's your picture...
Makes me wonder where the 747-200 in take-off in the banner comes from aswell... I'm sure there will be another photographer very pissed off (when/if he finds out).

How can you fight this? You email them, ask them for compensation? And what if they say no? Or -what I expect- simply don't reply?  Sad

Good luck Ben... I hope you succeed contacting them...


User currently offlineKingwide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Take a look at the 'Our Fleet' section as well. A lot of those shots look familiar especially the SP and the 742 [looks like LHR departure shot from Queens to me]


J



Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Well the SP shot is mine
Thanks J and Ben
Peter



-
User currently offlineManzoori From UK - England, joined Sep 2002, 1516 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Not saying they're all ripped off but...

The Image used for the 747-200 is by AirNikon

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



The Image for the 747-100 is by Alexander Jonsson

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Jonsson



The Image of the A321-200 is by Michael McLaughlin

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



The A310-200 is by Ivan Rodriguez

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ivan Rodriguez - IBERIAN SPOTTERS



The A310-300 is by Europix

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Europix



The A300-600R is by Alex

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex



The A300-B2k is by Dayot Jean-Charles

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dayot Jean-Charles



The 727-200 is by Propfreak

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Propfreak



As is the Fokker 100 by Propfreak

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Propfreak



Damned Shame webmasters feel they can rip people off like that!

Cheers!

Rez
 Big thumbs up



Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
User currently offlineBromma1968 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

I found Propfreaks' picture from Teheran of an Iran Air Fokker 100 in the
'fleet' section. It seems as most photos are stolen from a.net.

Anders


User currently offlineKC7MMI From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Why doesn't Johan get involved in this since it seems to involve a.net very much?

User currently offlineManzoori From UK - England, joined Sep 2002, 1516 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

But is this Johan's Problem? Surely you can't be holding him responsible for someone else ripping off the photos?

Cheers!

Rez
 Big thumbs up



Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
User currently offlineKC7MMI From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

I'm not holding him responsible, I'm just saying that since this seems to involve a.net quite a bit, he should get involved. Here is a quote from the Use Photo link at the top "we do not appreciate and react strongly when finding our photos on other sites that use them without permission." So, where's the reaction? I am not holding Johan responsible, I'm just hoping he might get involved.

-Benjamin


User currently offlineAdministrator From Sweden, joined May 1999, 3251 posts.
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3847 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
SITE ADMIN

I do consider it my problem indirect. If companies keep steeling photos from Airliners.net photographers will stop uploading. There's a difficult balance between showing the images in all their glory to all our visitors and protecting them from misuse.

I do not get involved in contacting the copyright violating company however, that I leave to the photographer.

We have been discussing this issue extensively in the past and most agree this is a risk people are willing to take when uploading to Airliners.net. The rewards are bigger than the "costs" of risking misuse which happens relatively seldom. I do have some plans for the future however that could help the situation a bit, more about that at a later date.

Regards,
Johan



Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
User currently offlineLennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3820 times:

Which reminds me:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/110667/

Have any of you guys affected by the Syrian acquisition had any response worth mentioning in here to assist with this thread?

Gerry


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3777 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

if you post your pictures online, people will steal them. The only surefire way to avoid is to not post your pictures.

Have you ever downloaded an mp3? Or a movie file? Or "borrowed" someones software?


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3765 times:

Thanks for all your help on this and the confirmation.

I know the chance of getting anything more than nothing is very slim but I am not going to have my images stolen without a fight.

I know if you put your images online they are liable to be used illgally but thats not the point of my post. Nor is the issue of any other sort of downloads.

Thanks again

Ben Pritchard


User currently offline747 4-ever From Sweden, joined Feb 2001, 604 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Gerry: No, I'm still waiting for an answer from Syrian Air  Sad

Robert


User currently offlineExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3732 times:

Does Iran have that whole "cutting off a hand for stealing" law?

 Acting devilish


User currently offlineEbos From Belgium, joined Jul 2001, 520 posts, RR: 48
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

It's something we have to live with i'm afraid. It's balancing between the 'benefits' and the risks of misuse. Two concorde-pictures were used on stamps in two African countries... chances to take legal actions against those countries are nihil i'm afraid. So if you can't live with it, there's only one solution: no pictures on the internet.

For me the 'benefits' are much more important than the copyright violations. I learned to know many people through a.net and that's the most important for me. But everyone has to make that decision for himself.

Sven





An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
User currently offlineExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

If A.net, as a centralized organization, pursued violators as stringently as is worded in all the warning messages on the site, theft wouldn't be as prevalent a problem I think. As it now stands... those warnings are just hollow threats as most people that fall victim have no idea what next steps to take and probably don't have the time, infrastructure and abilities to pursue violators beyond a "hey... you stole my image!" e-mail.

All A.net would need to do is get some sort of legal pitbull who will defend us with the vigor of, say... Skymonster defending A.net in the forums, and we'd be in better shape as a group. Surely their must be someone associated with Luleå University that is knowledgeable in these issues. After all, A.net is the number one site, right? Surely someone could step up.

As many pro shooters know, the only way to defend yourself from these sorts of things is consistent, automatic legal action from an organized body. It carries so much more weight when a violator is confronted from a representative organization than just a single individual. For example, certain stock image firms have created a rap in the industry for pursuing violations of their photographers to the point that most designers and art directors in-the-know avoid thieving from them like the plague. It's not unlike the RIAA pursuing ANYONE that steals music. (Grandma's included.) They create an aura that persists to the point that makes some people think twice before stealing. It's by no means fail-safe. Theft WILL happen regardless... but at least it "looks" like you give a damn.

Again, it would require time, effort, organization and leadership beyond simple database scripts. Doing nothing, however, is by all means the easiest solution...

William




User currently offlineLennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

sort of legal pitbull who will defend us with the vigor of, say... Skymonster defending A.net in the forums
Just the thought of it:  Nuts


Re: I should have checked the Syrian website first.
http://www.syrian-airlines.com The home domain is not available?
A traceroute is not getting very far either.....
Hmm, I wonder what has happened here?

Gerry

[Edited 2004-01-10 21:48:13]

User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

LOL!!!  Laugh out loud

The Adminstrator has spoken on this one so there's not much more to say!  Yawn

However, to take up on a point made by ExitRow:

"certain stock image firms have created a rap in the industry for pursuing violations of their photographers to the point that most designers and art directors in-the-know avoid thieving from them like the plague"

Yes, and I bet those stock agencies charge a fairly hefty cut for their services, whereas a.net charges nothing. I suspect that legal representation of that nature doesn't come cheap but if William wants to start a legal fighting fund to which ALL photographers contribute on a regular basis, I'm sure we could set something up for ourselves  Yeah sure

Andy - trying to stay in keeping with reputation!  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineExitRow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

The Adminstrator has spoken on this one so there's not much more to say!

Sure there is. It's called "collaberation" and "user feedback." I am sure Johan would love to hear the photographer's viewpoint. Our viewpoint IS important isn't it?

I suspect that legal representation of that nature doesn't come cheap

As I said in my previous post, perhaps this would make an excellent undergraduate project for a young, hungry law student looking for experience in copyright law. Then again... chances are a pursuit of a violation wouldn't get to the point of legal action in the majority of cases. You'd be amazed what a cease-and-desist order on an esquire's letterhead will do. Besides, I believe a firmly worded letter (yes... PAPER!) or e-mail (yes... NO PAPER!) from A.net would make a huge difference compared to doing nothing. Like I've said before, not only are image-lifters in violation of copyright, but in violation of this site's Terms of Service. The legal precedents must exist.

There are currently 10 database editors, 1 programmer, 1 article editor, 18 photo screeners, 12 forum moderators and even a marketing guy, but A.net can't find ONE person who'd be willing to help us defend our copyrights here? Put out a message in the forums. There are plenty of lawyers in the forums.

but if William wants to start a legal fighting fund to which ALL photographers contribute on a regular basis, I'm sure we could set something up for ourselves

It's really not about money. It's about resourcefulness. Finding the right people and creating the right kind of relationships (as in pro bono legal advice) is essential and potentially beneficial to everyone.

Ancient Chinese Proverb.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

No need to shy away from a solution with many benefits just because it requires hard work.

William




User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Ancient Chinese Proverb.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
=============================================

An old Homer Simpson saying:
" Trying is the first step towards failure"  Big grin

I agree with Andy's point.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJofa From Sweden, joined Apr 2002, 320 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Clickhappy

"Have you ever downloaded an mp3? Or a movie file? Or "borrowed" someones software?"

What does that have to do with this thread?


25 Concord977 : Here's a twist. When you take a photo of an airliner, it is generally regarded as "public domain" subject matter. However, when you sell a photo of an
26 Scbriml : It is creepy that a large airline would resort to stealing photos from this website. It's very unlikely that Iran Air directly stole the images from h
27 G-CIVP : "However, when you sell a photo of an airline's aircraft, you are "profiting from proprietary subject matter"." We've had this argument before. If I r
28 Post contains links ExitRow : I would still think that a photo of an airliner, unless taken on company property, would still fall under Fair Use. Why? You're sale of the image is n
29 Lennymuir : ...misconceptions... When you take a photo of an airliner, it is generally regarded as "public domain" subject matter No it isn't, it belongs to the p
30 LHRSIMON : Well i can see your problem..... But the problem you are going to have is the fact that its Iran Air. I work in the airfreight industry in London and
31 Akumas : That is indeed, your image...
32 Ckw : I have always accepted the fact that my images appear on A.net at my own risk, and it is down to me to deal with any resulting infingement. Nonetheles
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