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My First Post 9-11 Showdown  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Posted (10 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

Hello everyone.

Well, I've been a member for almost 3 years and in that time I have read many horror stories from fellow photographers and their encounters with police/security. I have printed a lot of these out for reference and advice on how to handle a confrontation. There doesn't seem to be a problem at my 3 area airports: TPA, PIE and SRQ. At TPA and surrounding area, I have been questioned a few times by police (I have to deal with 3 different police agencies) but no big deal, I've always been allowed to stay. Because of the NON-gestapo attitude around here, I guess I haven't been properly trained for a showdown. I had never had one post 9-11.....until yesterday.



To keep track of my emotions, use this legend.

Level 1 = Moderately pissed
Level 2 = Really pissed
Level 3 = Downright LIVID
Level 4 = Blowing a FREAKIN' gasket!!!!!!!


My spotting buddy DLX737200 and I were visitng the Orlando Sanford Int'l Airport. We were having a good time, but I guess we overplayed our hand, staying too visible for too long. We had climbed up some stairs giving us a great view of the field. We were there uninterupted for 30 or so minutes. It was very hot. We went inside to cool off and check the moniters. We came back about 30 minutes later, and were up at the top of the stairs waiting as a My Travel 763 was about to park right dead in front of us...a perfect shot!

As I looked down, I saw a security guy ask very nicely to come down from there. DLX737200 didn't even see him.  Laugh out loud.

So we walked down the stairs and we watched as the security guy left. (Level 1) I was MODERATELY pissed, but OK, fine. I said, lets just wait here by the fence for the plane, which was almost here. DLX737200 went back to his car for a moment directly parralel to where I was standing, about 50 feet away.

TOO MY TOTAL SURPRISE I hear from behind "You can't be here" I don't remember his exact words. Some **ckhead in a go-cart. I said "Well I'm down here because that other guy chased me from up there."

And then he says......


OH WAIT, CAN YOU GUESS??????????  Insane







"Since 9-11, the government doesn't allow pictures of the airfield."

 Insane  Insane  Insane  Insane  Insane  Insane

He SPECIFICALLY used the word "Government"

I-yi-yi  Insane

(Level 2)

I yelled at DLX737200, "FORGET IT" I started walking back to his car. But this dude was following me in his go-cart like I'm a common criminal as he was reporting on his walki-talki "Yeah I got 'em. What do you want me to do with them?" Radio voice said, "Get there IDs"

(Level 3)  Angry  Angry


DLX737200 was challenging this guy with very good arguments to which this low-level bozo had no answers.

So the supervisor arrives and gives us the same ol' horse hockey. But as the conversation ended he asked us how we got in here. I said, through the gate. He said that normally its the employee lot but otherwise it's for PASSENGERS ONLY
Level 4  Pissed
Level 4  Pissed
Level 4  Pissed
Level 4  Pissed

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME??? It's a public place isn't it! What the hell is that?????? While the exact words weren't said, there was definately body language that conveyed "LEAVE THE FUCKIN AIRPORT." We left. Vowing that I'll never go back again......UNTIL NEXT TIME.  Big thumbs up By the way, a few weeks earlier I got a $63.00 parking ticket at this same airport. Very hostile.



Since this was not my hometown airport, I'm not pursuing this. But I just didn't know how to handle this situation. What could we have done?  Confused  Confused






So we drove back to MCO and met up with another photographer. We then went to Frontage Rd. The signs on the north side say "NO PARKING 11:00PM-6:00AM" It was 5:00PM. Cop came by and barked "there's NO PArking here"

Cop barked: "There's NO PARKING here!"

DLX737200: the sign says from 11:00pm to 6:00am

Cop barked: "NO PARKING ANYTIME"

DLX737200: Well we WERE obeying the sign.

Cop barked: Well, there's a new terror warning and they don't want people taking pictures of the planes.




WHO IS THEY?  Insane

See that.

HE COULDN'T WIN THE ARGUMENT, SO HE BULLSHI**ED US



We spotted at some other locations around MCO. I seperated from the other two guys. Good thing I did because they were confronted by a Federal Air Marshall. I'll let DLX737200 pick up that story.



Bottom line: MCO was conquered once again. I got off 70 or so shots for the day.









Now, take the MCO/TPA quiz.



1. "You can shoot through the fence, just park the car away from the fence"

A. MCO
B. TPA


2. 'NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKINGNO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKINGNO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING/NO PARKING''

A. MCO
B. TPA


3. "WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I'M A FEDERAL AIR MARSHALL. LET ME SEE
YOUR ID."

A. MCO
B. TPA


4. "WELL, THE PEOPLE PARK THERE TO WATCH THE PLANES, SO WE PUT A
TRASH CAN THERE SO THEY DON'T LITTER."

A. MCO
B. TPA


5. "SO, YOU'RE MUNCHING ON BREAKFAST AND WATCHING
AIRPLANES...THAT'S COOL."

A. MCO
B. TPA


6. "YEAH, I JUST BOUGHT A SUPER SUPER DUPER TELESCOPE, SO I NEED TO
FILL OUT THAT FORM TO SPOT FROM THE PARKING GARAGE."

A. MCO
B. TPA















STAY SAFE AND HAPPY SPOTTING!!!!  Big thumbs up









I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePaulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
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Well from what I hear MCO is one of the ONLY airports in the States that is like this.

If I was I would send emails and write to every one you can think about it I would not care if it is not you home airport. Write TSA call them about it. Write the local paper. Write a national publication. Write the public relations and airport police, even the Airport Managers. You get my drift. Any one with a brain would know that it is not illegal to take pictures aircraft.




Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

You should definitely pursue the Sanford thing further if you can...good things can happen...

Im very curious to hear about Dlx's story with a FAM...please post ASAP DLX!

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineDlx737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1956 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

LOL LOL LOL LOL  Big thumbs up

As for the quiz:

1. B.
2. A.
3. A.
4. B.
5. B.
6. A.

Did I get a 100% A+ for the day?

As for the FAM guy.... not that big of a deal.

727Lover ran off for a while to get some landing shots and I sat with a new friend of ours named Bob ( he doesn't have a user name on this forum ). Anyway, I hung out with Bob and we were taking pics of the North Taxiway with planes coming from 17L/35R. All of a sudden, this young lookin guy pulled up in Black Sports Car and walks out to us smiling. I thought at first he was another spotter/photographer.

FAM: How's it goin guys?
US: Good. And you?
FAM: Good good...
Pause
Pause
FAM: what'cha all doin?
US: Just takin pictures
FAM: Oh yeah? what for?
US: Just ourselves.
FAM: Oh... you all work independently or somethin and sell them?
Me: Not really sell just collect them and upload them to Airliner websites.
FAM: oh. well let me introduce myself. I'm FAM so and so, so and so. We got some calls on you all that you all have video cameras videoing the planes.
Me: no no... no videos. Just digital cameras!
FAM: I see. Well you aren't doing anything illegal. But I do have to do some preliminary paperwork on the case. You all aren't going to get in any trouble or anything... just a simple report of no importance. Also, OPD might come out to question you but your not in trouble or anything.
Me: Wait a second, do you mean they might just show up or are you sending for them?
FAM: Well.. I have to send for them but they're just gonna ask you the same questions.
Me: Oh ok.

As he starts to walk away, he goes:

FAM: You know what? Let me just do somethin real quick while I'm here. Can I see your IDs?
Us: sure. here they are

He just looked at them each for 2 seconds and then gave them back.

FAM: Ok then. Thanks so much guys. We just like to make sure of what's goin on especially with all the alerts and such out there right now. Some people just get real nervous when people are loitering about the airport takin pictures.

Bob: well we understand but we're on your side... trust us.
FAM: Ok then. Well have a great day!
US: See ya!

Then 727Lover showed back up and we told him this story.

We waited 20 minutes and OPD never showed so we decided to leave. On our way out though, 1 OPD Explorer drove by with a woman cop driving it. We waved to her and she waved back smiling.  Big thumbs up Go figure!! I thought for sure she would turn her lights on and pull us over for leaving the scene of "the crime". But it was so much fun. Even though we had to run from Cops/Security for the whole day, I got 170 pics and it was so much fun!

-DLX737200

P.S. 727Lover, i did too see the security guy at SFB when he first told us to get down!


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

Great story.  Big grin

I love SFB. I have a decent spot I goto (Havent been there since spring 02 though, but, I was never bothered)

Anyhow, "NEW TERROR ALERT"? What time was this? I went to Navy North Island today, and asked what the threatcon was, and they said the basic one.



[Edited 2004-05-31 05:53:45]

User currently offlinePaulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 6 hours ago) and read 3830 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well what happened is the FBI (I think) last week released to the media those pictures of known terroists and said that an attack was going to happen this summer at a major event.

Well homeland security was very upset because they said that the FBI did not tell them anything about what they were going to release, and homeland said that this is no new info. They even said that how they found out about is when someone was watching the TV.

So much for creating a agency that talks together.



Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months ago) and read 3763 times:

Aren't FAMs supposed to be on the planes?

If this guy and I are on the same plane, isn't his cover blown?

And this isn't the first FAM moment at MCO I know of.






Paulinbna,

just so there's no confusion, the MAIN assault of the day, the one that really got me upset was at SFB.


That My Travel 763 shot would have been great.  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed

[Edited 2004-05-31 15:16:12]


I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

Did the FAM ever show you his identification to prove he was a FAM?

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineDlx737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1956 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

Yeah... i forgot to include that. When he said, "let me introduce myself... I'm so and so", He pulled out a little black book thing and in it had his badge and credentials that said FAM on it.

User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7545 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

As I was told by Monroe County's finest in ROC a couple months ago....
"What are you guys doing here?" (I was alone sitting in my car)
"Just watching planes"
Here's where it gets good...
">>They<<" "Don't want >>your type<< hanging around the airport with 'what's going on in the world today' , you understand right?,please move on."
My 'type' huh??
I wish all US airports had the mindset like LAS,MIA,FLL & LAX. When are they cops going to admit that '9-11' was the fault of bad security screening and $hitty cockpit doors?, NOT people watching planes. Those people did not climb the perimiter fence and sneak aboard!



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

So far I have not been bothered at any airport in Australia or New Zealand (touch wood). From the horror stories I have read I think that these cops/security personnel are on power trips and have big egos.


South Australian Spotter
User currently offlineZoomer From Netherlands, joined Dec 2000, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Unfortunately, much of it is down to the volatile mixture of paranoia and ignorance of some individuals. My own experiences in the States were mixed but generally OK (Arizona, Nevada and California). I have no problem getting checked for I/D etc. as long as they don't start B/S me about what is and isn't legal. I probably know the answers better than they do.

User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6848 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3381 times:

Let us not forget that this is the country where a woman was visited by the police after she went to a shop to buy a flight simulator program for her son, shortly after 9-11.

Obviously everyone who buys flight simulators is a clear and present danger to us all, as well as those who take photographs who are clearly planning "the next big thing".

Here's an idea. All the 9-11 hijackers were passengers on those aircraft. Let's stop people being passengers then there'll be no chance of any hijacks.

Even better, ground all aircraft and replace them by Greyhound, or whatever. No, let's all walk. Ah, but people who walk can be dangerous. Stay at home and do nothing.

Andy



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Ehhhhhhh.. FAM's can't do shit on the ground, unless it's in the aircraftt. They told us that in Initial Training. They ain't called Federal AIR marshalls for nothing..

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3204 times:

I had an experience with a rent-a-cop at KDTW when Jorgos was here, he wanted to take some pics. now, we paid for the parking, etc etc.. We're standing next to my car, on the deck for the new Mcnamara terminal, when some idiot wanting to play boss walk up to us, and say "Some passangers told us there are people taking pictures on the parking deck. That wouldn't be you, would it?" Man. The camera in Joge's hands wasn't enough to convince him.

Here's the rest of the conversation:

Me: Why are we not allowed to take pictures?
Rent-A-Cop: It's just the rules.
Me: Who'se rules?
RAC: I don't know, I just know it is.
Me: Well, why aren't there any signs out here?
RAC: There don't have to be signs.
Me: Acutally, yes. Signs have to be posted for that kind of restriction.
RAC: You're not in any trouble now, but you have to leave or you will be.
Me: Really. We can get in trouble for what? Paying our parking fees, and causing no harm to anyone or anything? Interesting.
RAC: Well, you just have to leave. That is all.


After this, I take Jorgos to KYIP. Talk to someone there, explain he is an aviation photographer from Finland, and they take us right out on the ramp with all the Kallitta planes. Hmm.. What a difference, huh???????



Now, thinking about it, DLX737200 or 727Lover, I'll be in the TPA area 6-11 thru 6-16... any chance of showing an amateur some good places to take pics????

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1956 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3179 times:

I wouldn't mind comin down to TPA next Saturday to do some spotting. Just all depends ont he weather though... 727Lover, how bout it? You only live 5 minutes away so I guess it wouldn't matter to u.

Forecast for TPA next Saturday:

High:
91°F

Scattered T-Storms

Wind:
From the Southwest at 12 mph

Precip: 50 %

Max. Humidity: 67 %

UV Index: 10+ Extreme



That means they'd be using the 18s again  Sad but I'm worried about those Scattered T-storms. Of course, thats still 7 days away and I've learned from experience with the Weather Channel, the forcast can change 1,000,000,000,000,000 times in 7 days!!! TRUST ME! My forecast for my ATL day trip must've change 30 times in 8 days!


User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

DLX- please check your email.

One other question for any TPA area spotters.. Might it be possible to take a pic or two of my incoming flight? I'm on DL, a 767 from ATL. I'm arriving around 1130am-12pm on the morning of the 11th...

Thanks!!!!

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

The SFB area is a little sensitive because it is the Red headed stepchild to MCO. When I worked there I was told by my supervisor that he doesn't like spotters or photographers. I however lucked out since I worked there I had a little leeway. As far as MCO the people working there for TSA and even some of the airlines are complete retards and idiots. I was in CA last week and we were down at SAN and they have a designated spotting location that the port authority won't bother you. LAX there are also designated spotting areas. But yeah SFB has got an inferiority complex because of MCO. I do know of a place off property as SFB that you can get away with spotting.



Sean from MCO



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineJamotcx From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

You guys say that you have to show your IDs?

What if you dont have any ID on you?

I guess I better make sure I have my driving liscence or passport on me this summer if i decide to do a bit of spotting.


Jamo


User currently offlineVir380 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2002, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3044 times:
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Sorry that we are still reading about these people who have no idea about reality !

727lover looks like you gave these guys a real job to do ... instead of strolling around looking semi-important or sat on there fat a**** watchin TV and eating whatever they can get delivered .

I would say keep at it ... let them earn there money  Smile

Dont let these loosers put you off...

Regards Tony


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1956 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

I would say keep at it ... let them earn there money

LOL  Big thumbs up I never thought about that! At least 727Lover and I can help the security personel with their job security! LOL. Why let them get paid for wasting gas driving around in their 2004 Explorers on taxiways and perimeter roads munching on Taco Bell or some other fastfood! They can chase 727Lover and I all day! We make them have to actually WORK for a change!

-Justin


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

FAM: You know what? Let me just do somethin real quick while I'm here. Can I see your IDs?
Us: sure. here they are

He just looked at them each for 2 seconds and then gave them back.



See, what I don't get, is WHY they need to see the I.D. if they don't run it. Do they have every terrorist name in their head?  Confused


Boy, I really feel for the innocent arab spotter/photographer.  Sad



I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineRotor1 From Tajikistan, joined Mar 2003, 230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2923 times:

They're just seeing if anything sets off their BS detector. If you falter in providing an ID, or it looks fake, they go off that as "something amiss" and start looking at you in more detail.

-Mike



The best aviation photo I've ever taken was rejected by Airliners.net
User currently offlineMcdonobr From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2891 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Have they now removed the fencing from Frontage Rd. adjacent to the 528 toll road? When I was last there approx. 2-1/2 yrs. ago, both sides of the road were fenced off and no parking was allowed anywhere.

User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1956 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

No... the fencing is still there.  Sad  Sad  Sad

We park on the opposite side, the grassy area. It isn't overly safe nor it is good on our cars but it's legal! We still get kicked out though.


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5499 posts, RR: 51
Reply 25, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

There is a canal (just after frontage on conway rd) that leads to a lake over there by Frontage (facing north you see the lake). People, including myself, used to fish there......now they put a fecne up saying no tresspassing. SAD!

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