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Am I The World's Worst Photographer?  
User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Is it a question of the 'eyes of the beholder' or that the
'beholder' has no eyes? I claim the Airliners Net rejection record of 17 rejections out of 17!

On a score of 1 out of 4 acceptance rates, I must rate
ZILCH1 };-(

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Keep trying. I think we ALL started out like that. I know I did, anyway.

Charles


User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

>>Keep trying. I think we ALL started out like that.
I know I did anyway.>>

I'm running out of time age-wise and location-wise.
Edinburgh isn't exactly one of the World's sunniest
places. We have had 8 sun-less daysin the last ten! :-(


User currently offlineA380-200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Ok then...no sun...don't take pictures!!!

Many people will tell you, if the sun don't shine, don't waste yer time...

I know how you must feel...I live close to EMA and the traffic there isn't exactly busy...and the weather here sucks too.

So...spend the time honing your scanning and post scan manipulation skills...ideally using a good, sharp, sunny shot...hey, if you don't have one, beg steal or borrow one...just to practise with.

Then, once you have that sussed, when the sun shines go take some shots...keeping it simple...maybe starting with stationary stuff...and see how you get on.

Good luck,
Dean


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

I'm sorry but I have to disagree about the "no sun no pictures" point of view. I've been recently in Zurich two times, and each time it was raining and the results where not that bad (I think at least) because I had only 5 rejections out of 131. Sometimes wet concrete produces nice reflections.
About rejections: I don't think that you've got the record. Mine was 125 out of 129 because I added my URL to the copyright. So the whole sunday was spent with editing the photos again and resubmitting them.
Peter



-
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Peter,

I saw your pics, and they are remarkably similar to ones I took in december. Same weather and everything. Frustrating, isn't it  Angry. At least you got lucky with a little bit of sun and some reflections.

I agree that you can take some interesting pics in poor weather, but they are more difficult. Color balances are wrong, exposure is a bit messy, and you have to play a little bit with the picture to get it into good shape (At least I do.) For a beginner like Fox1, that would be like jumping into the deep end before learning to swim at the shallow end of the pool. Good-weather pics need much less work.

Here are the pics I took that day, if you are interested. See the simularities?

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?nr_of_rows=81&keywords=Charles%20Falk%20December%2022%2C%202000&first_this_page=0&page_limit=60&sort_order=photo_id+desc&thumbnails=photos&engine_version=3.5&nr_pages=6&page=

Cheers,

Charles


User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

>>So...spend the time honing your scanning and post scan manipulation skills>>

I don't have an expensive scanner! I use a Canon EOS 300 c/w Canon 28-105 and Canon 75-300mm
Plus a 2.11 mil pixel digital.

Seems to me that success is down to a top-notch
mega-bucks scanner and slide film.

Is there an senior citizens Airliners.Net? :-((((((((((

Maybe my lottery numbers will come-up this weekend?


User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

Hi Fox1,

I doubt whether you're the worlds worst photographer. We can't see your photographs, so we can only speculate on why they are being rejected. However, my tuppence worth is as follows:

My impression is that rejections fall broadly into three categories:

1. Bad original picture - too grainy (wrong film), out of focus, blurred, incorrectly exposed, etc.
2. Bad composition - bits chopped off, subject too small, things in the way, sloping horizons, etc.
3. Bad scan - contrast or exposure wrong, too grainy, etc.

You need to consider why your pictures are being rejected and sort out that particular problem.

If your rejections fall into group (1) above, the pictures are probably mostly unrecoverable and you need to go shoot some more pictures. Take note of the comments about sunny days and static shots to start with. But I doubt (1) is the problem as I doubt you are the world's worst photographer!

If its (2) that is the problem, there may be something you can do post-scanning to correct the problems - you can't bring back bits that were chopped off when the photo was taken, but you can correct horizons and you may even be able to crop out distracting stuff in the foreground etc. But if it is this that's the problem, next time you take some pictures, you need to pay more attention to the composition - don't rush your pictures and make sure everythings OK before you press the button.

However, seems to me that most people, when they have a problem, have a problem with (3). If this is the case, you need to practice and experiment with your scanning and post-scanning technique. Read the FAQs to make sure you're not falling foul of the image size, resolution or other rules that apply to uploads. Read the threads on scaning technique on this forum and try some of them. Have a look at other scanning sites like scantips. Look critically at your end result through a browser so you see it as it will be seen on airliners.net. Look carefully at the large versions of images on airliners.net to see if the sharpness, contrast, grain etc on your pictures are equivalent to the pictures that are already on airliners.net. If they're not, adjust your scanning technique and try again.


Whatever you do, give yourself a fighting chance. Start off with what you regard as your better / best pictures, or pictures of something interesting that isn't already on airliners.net - don't choose the stuff you shot most recently or stuff that's close to hand unless these are your best.

Finally, whatever the reason for your rejections, be honest with yourself - if what you see through a browser after you have scanned, cropped, retouched and saved as a jpeg is not as good as the majority of stuff already on this web-site, I'd honestly suggest that you don't upload the end result but instead start again with the scanning, etc. If you upload stuff that you know in your heart of hearts is not as good as what's already on this site, you know what will happen - don't subject yourself to that until you are as close as you can get to being 100% happy with what you are uploading. And if at the end of the day you can't make it work, ask some specific questions about the problem as you see it - there's people here who will try to help.


Andy


User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Fox1,

> I use a Canon EOS 300 c/w Canon 28-105 and Canon 75-300mm

Sounds like your camera gear is fine then  Smile

> I don't have an expensive scanner!

When I decided I wanted to start scanning slides and negatives (not specifically for airliners.net), I decided to buy a film scanner. It cost a bob or two, although no more than a new 35mm camera body I'd also have liked but now cannot justify. Buying the film scanner was a painful decision given the low cost of some flat bed scanners. However, I do know that the results have, even in three months I have owned it, justified the price - I'm pleased with the scanner.

I have no idea what problems can arise if you use a flat bed scanner, as I have never possessed such a device, although pretty much everyone here will recommend you use a film scanner. There are some relatively cheap ones around, even in the UK, which may be worth a little bit of research.

Andy


User currently offlineUSAir_757 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 996 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

>Seems to me that success is down to a top-notch
>mega-bucks scanner and slide film.


Ahem...I use an OLD Pentax ME-Super and a Pentax 80-200 zoom just as old...and a CHEAPO $190 slidescanner...


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © C. Wassell



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © C. Wassell




Hey, we all started somewhere...
http://www.geocities.com/aviationspotter/0008.jpg


Cullen



-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Fox,

Andy's comments are right on. I concur completely. I would add that your equipment is fine. I had excactly the same equipment until last fall, and got plenty of pics accepted, even with a flatbed scanner. Here are a couple of examples with that gear.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



And there are a number of senior photogs here who still use prints on flatbeds, I believe, so it can be done.

But a film scanner is definately worth it, if you can manage it.

Cheers,

Charles


User currently offlineEDIpic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Hi Andy

>>>If you upload stuff that you know in your heart of hearts is not as good as what's already on this site>>>

Andy, I've been checking out the new uploads into this site for months
there's are still numbers of really poor scans (in my opinion).
I feel I can say this because I get weekly e-mails from Johan with his
acceptance/rejection opinions which I use to help me look harder at what I'm doing. But I'm still shocked by the number of low quality (current aircraft, not old) shots being accepted. I would never reveal these shots on this forum, but I do keep a track of them for comparisons.

To Fox1

Don't worry. I was getting replies as bad as that when I
was first venturing into this website. I think that trying to get
the "house" style is what you should aiming for.
These rejection e-mails allow you to see what's gone wrong
and have a second look.
It's worked for me and generally, it's accurate.

Cheer

EDIpic


User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

EDIpic,

I agree with you, but only to a limited extent. In my opinion there are very few "really poor" scans that have been accepted recently, except perhaps one or two where the subject is of exceptional interest, maybe historically, in which case I fully concur with the decision to accept the photo. In the end, is this site about photography or about airliners? I think its about airliners, and if a lesser quality (note I say lesser quality, not poor) picture is the only one available of something different, unique or interesting, I believe it should get accepted. But in the end, its up to Johan of course, not us.

I'm probably as guilty as the next person of having a few pictures here that might be described as "marginal" in quality terms. There's been one or two occasions when I've finished work on a picture and thought "well that's not brilliant", but I've still uploaded it. However, I only do that when I think the subject is particularly interesting or something new. I wouldn't do that if the subject was ten-a-penny on the site already.

The point I was trying to make was this: If anyone has done the best they feel they can do with an image and they think that it is of interest to the airliners.net community in general - if they think it will contribute something to the site overall - then I suggest they upload it and leave it to Johan to decide whether its worthy of inclusion. If a photographer hasn't done the best they personally think they can do with an image, they should really try again.

Surprisingly perhaps, I'd find rejection easier to take if I knew I'd done the best I could - the loss would not be mine as I'd still have the original picture. If I knew deep down I could have done better and I got a rejection, it'd be like being found out after doing a sloppy job, and I'd hate that!!!  Smile

Andy


User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

hey i havent read any other posts, but i know i've gotten FAR more rejects than 17!!! my acceptance percentage at first was about 0.000001%

but keep at it, my last 50 pics have been all accepted w/o warnings, (100%) its not as hard as i thought it was!

 Smile


CHRIS


User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11951 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Are you the world's worst photographer? No that would be me. Big grin

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

<>

Your reply was very informative and borne out by the fact that some of my worst shots at Schipol were
accepted! :-( Check-out my April 2001 shots on
www.edinburghairport.org.uk - photo gallery.
Shots on airliners are under Joe Curry.

The earlier standard shots I'm not particularly proud
of. :-( Yes I will perserve even if it means lying on
the runway for approach and take-off shots.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)


User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

>>Sounds like your camera gear is fine then <<

I use an Olympus 2100 digital most days. Images are
easier to retrieve and compare to a 35mm image
when blown-up to 10x8.

I think the same old 'furniture' at EDI is part of my
problem. Perhaps I should take that trip to BFS
after all? ;-O



User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

>>Ahem...I use an OLD Pentax ME-Super and a Pentax 80-200 zoom just as old...and a CHEAPO $190 slidescanner... <<

I think I'll perserve with the Oly and trade-up next year
to a G1.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy




User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3924 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

No Thom@s...I am the world's worst photographer! Smile/happy/getting dizzy




"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

>>To Fox1

Don't worry. I was getting replies as bad as that when I
was first venturing into this website. I think that trying to get
the "house" style is what you should aiming for.
These rejection e-mails allow you to see what's gone wrong
and have a second look.
It's worked for me and generally, it's accurate. <<

Is there room for two of us at ABZ? } Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

>>hey i havent read any other posts, but i know i've gotten FAR more rejects than 17!!! my acceptance percentage at first was about 0.000001%<<

The 17 on this 'round' are to be added to a few dozen
on previous 'rounds'. :-(


User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11951 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

thomasphoto60, we should have a company called "Thomas and Thomas, crappy photos while you wait." Big grin

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 730 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Joe,

I see you have one big advantage over me and many of the rest of us ... I your profile says you're retired! I hope this means that you have a little more time than some of us, and best of all the luxury of being able to get all those shots I'm missing while stuck at my 9-5!

I've said this before in this forum, but its worth saying again - if you live in the UK, you can't afford to let weather put you off - try and use it to advantage (clouds, reflections etc.) Try using Reala for good results when the weather stinks.

Cheers,

Colin





Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineFox1 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

>>but keep at it, my last 50 pics have been all accepted w/o warnings, (100%) its not as hard as i thought it was! <<

Alright if I submit the pics to you instead?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlineEDIpic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2059 times:

>>> Is there room for two of us at ABZ?

Surely you know who I am Joe?
I don't visit ABZ, you must be thinking of someone else.
I'll probably see you at the Ingliston fence next week!
(a Micra isn't it?)
The EDI furniture is okay. You just need time to get the best ones
in good daylight.

EDIpic


25 USAir_757 : Thomas, Thomas, you guys are NOT the world's worst photographers, stop rating yourselves so low!! Cullen
26 Post contains images Fox1 :
27 Post contains images BrainStorm123 : I know it is hard to get your start at A.net. But belive me if you get one accepted you will going to scan scan scan and more it was a dream come true
28 Thomasphoto60 : Cullen, We were only kidding around. Thomas
29 Post contains images USAir_757 : lol Thomas ok then i dont mind Cullen
30 Post contains images BO__einG : Ive been suffering the Klumps too. Recently Ive been gettin emails from fellow spotters at my airport who use this site and they say that they really
31 Post contains links LGW : My advise to you is this. I know the weather isnt amazing but, search around on the web for cheap flights and book a flight from EDI (taht was your lo
32 Post contains images Granite : Hi What's all this talk about me I was actually thinking about visiting EDI this comming weekend but: 1. Mail order films from MX2 have not arrived ye
33 Post contains images Fox1 : >>How are the queues on the Forth Bridge??
34 Post contains images Granite : Hi Unfortunately, my film did not arrive in the lunchtime post so no EDI for me this weekend If I plan a photography trip to EDI or GLA I usually leav
35 Post contains images EDIpic : Ahem..... The "Forth Bridge" is a railway bridge. Suggest to drive over the "Forth Road Bridge" when you decide to come down Gary. Take care Gerry/EDI
36 Fox1 : >>My impression is that rejections fall broadly into three categories: 1. Bad original picture - too grainy (wrong film), out of focus, blurred, incor
37 Fox1 : >>If I plan a photography trip to EDI or GLA I usually leave ABZ around 5.00am for the 2 hour drive down.
38 B757300 : Hey Fox1, I can fully understand how you feel. I've uploaded about 150 photos and had every single one rejected. The truth of the matter is that it is
39 Post contains images Fox1 : >>Hey Fox1, I can fully understand how you feel. I've uploaded about 150 photos and had every single one rejected. The truth of the matter is that it
40 Thomasphoto60 : Hello Eric (B757300) I would like to see the CO 777 photo that you described in your post. As I have a few pics taken at IAH. If you don't want to pos
41 EDIpic : Funny, I have noticed one strange thing. At what time did you get your e-mail Fox1? I seem to get a higher rejection rate when the photographs are all
42 Post contains images Ikarus : "If I were you Fox, I'd give up on it. It takes more time and money then most people want to spend and even then the chances of acceptance are almost
43 Jan Mogren : >My impressions are: 1. I am not using Linux? 2. The 1024x728 rule that allows 'untouched' photos is rubbish! 1. What has this got to do with anything
44 Scotty : Joe A bit off topic - I agree with your website comments re BAA's monopoly on Scotlands airports. I would like to see EDI operated by an independent o
45 Post contains images Fox1 : >>A bit off topic - I agree with your website comments re BAA's monopoly on Scotlands airports. I would like to see EDI operated by an independent ope
46 Fox1 : >>At what time did you get your email
47 Aerorobnz : my first couple have been rejected, it seems to be the scan quality, because the actual photos look as good as most of the photos that make it here, s
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