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How To Improve My Photo?  
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Well, I'm a bit experimenting with my new dig-cam. I've made a few photo's and submitted to a.net. They were refused. No bad feeling offcourse because I'm still a rookie and still practicing with my new cam. But I thought that this was a nice try actually. What can I do better next time? Weather was good, spot was ok... What's wrong? Thanks for all your help and replys.

click for my first try

Cheers,
Schreiner


Soaring the internet...
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineInterpaul From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 409 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

What was the rejection reason?

User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

- 0209045.jpg (Martinair McDonnell Douglas MD-11F)
The image quality of these photos is low. This may be the result of several
perceived problems happening simultaneously, such as grain, blur, lighting,
contrast or color defects, which would lead us to believe that a fresh scan
(in the case of a non-digital image) or a complete rework starting with the
original camera file (in the case of a digitally taken image)would be necessary,
rather than a simple adjustment to the uploaded file.

It could be caused by the scanner you are using, the way you scanned your
photos, the (digital) camera, the light conditions when you shot the photos,
object out of focus, improper photo manipulations or any combination
thereof. Most of the time, the cause is either a bad scanner or that the
scanner wasn't used properly. If you think this might be the cause, please
read the documentation for your scanner and find the best DPI and color
settings. Generally a higher DPI and color setting will make a higher
quality image but only to a certain degree and it differs between different
brands of scanners. Try many different settings until you find the best
combination. If you are using an old or low quality scanner you might
consider investing in a new or borrow one from your friend/workplace/school.
If you are using a digital camera, check camera settings, please be aware
also that ,unprocessed, digital camera output is generally not
of acceptable quality for airliners.net. If you are using a lower quality digital
camera with a resolution below 3 Megapixel you might consider investing in a
camera with higher resolution or borrow one from your friend/workplace/school.

A frequent source of this problem is when the photograph was taken under
poor weather conditions without appropriate corrective measures (such as
exposure). Note that making acceptable photographs in poor weather
conditions or at night is quite difficult, and you should perhaps try to
achieve a good level of expertise and a few successful uploads of good
weather photographs before attempting much more difficult poor weather
or night photography.

If you think you have been able to improve the quality of the photos,
please re-upload them. Note that we are still very interested in
having these photos in our database, we only ask that you try to improve
the quality of the digital version of your photos. You can find examples
of photos with a high quality scanning in out "Editor's Choice"
section linked to from the front page of Airliners.net.

The photos were soft. This doesnt mean they are blurry (like motion
blur). It means that they could need this extra kick of sharpness.
This target can be reached by using the sharpen function of your
Photoediting program. For example in Photoshop try the Adaptive Unsharp
mask. But be careful not to oversharpen your pictures. Oversharpening can be
identified by jaggies. This is when a line that should have straight borders
has borders that look like stairs. Most scanners will not provide a very
sharp image without such post-scan manipulation. Raw digital camera output
is generally not of an acceptable standard for airliners.net without some
form of post-processing.

If you think you have been able to improve the Sharpness of the photos,
please upload them again. Note that we are still very interested in having
these photos in our database, we only ask that you try to improve the
sharpness of the digital version of your photos.

-----------------------
So... it can be anything?



Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineLHSebi From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 1049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Looks like jpeg compression to me there. But that's just me  Big grin

Sebastian



I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1817 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

I think I can tell you why, there may be other opinions too.

The picture is clearly of sub-optimal quality. Just look at the cockpit windows and their edges for example , they seem to be rather wobbly.

Here are some good nose closeups


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jerome Zbinden


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © BAIRES Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nacho Piédrola - IBERIAN SPOTTERS



BTW, where exactly in schiphol did you take that picture ? Looks like on ehll of a spotting location!



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

Okay, I know what you mean... but I thought it was sharp enough. I cant sharpen the image more with photoshop, because it will get worse while doing that. Is there a way to improve the sharpness of my next images by changing my way of photo taking?

Here are the settings:

bits: 24
Resolution: 230 *230dpi
Shutterspeed: 1/1024 sec
F: 4.9
Focus: 63 mm

Thanks for any commends!

Cheers,
Schreiner

BTW: The spottingsite is at the crossing of the "hoofdvaart" (Hoofddorp) and the taxiway to 36L Polderbaan. (pssss... our secret..  Smile)




Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3649 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4750 times:

The image is already over-sharpened a tad; I wouldn't sharpen it more, and would actually sharpen it less. You've got halo effects around all the high-contrast edges, and some of the noise is probably exacerbated by the sharpening.

What camera is this? I ask because you say you're using f4.9. If it's a point and shoot camera, you may not be able to do much better, but most SLR lenses have a "sweet spot" at between f5.6 and f11. Try that and your photo may be naturally a bit sharper next time - it looks like you used either a long zoom here or telephoto, so you'd want to be in the sweet spot of the lens for the best natural sharpness.

I also personally think it's a tiny bit too tightly cropped on the nose, but it probably wouldn't get rejected for that. There is a sort of "rule" in photography, though, that when you have an object that appears to be going somewhere, you give it a little bit of room in the photo so it doesn't look like the photo is "trapping" the subject (alternatively, many photos break this rule on purpose specifically to suggest the subject is trapped). But that's subjective; I don't think that's why it got rejected. But personally I'd suggest just giving a tiny bit more space in the crop next time; maybe another two feet off the nose of the plane.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3767 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Start from the original file again, crop, resize the image to 1024 x 7** pixels and sharpen it. You might want to use NeatImage to get rid of the noise.

Keep trying.

cheers,
Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

Great tips guys, thanks alot.I downloaded NeatImage but don't get it yet. Working on that.

But; how to kill the halo effect? Is that because of the zoom? Will a tripod help?

The camera is a Kodak DX6490, not a slr but "close". It's a good camera with a Schneider lens (10 optical zoom) and a PASM feature so that I can learn how and what when I buy an SLR.

Thanks again, I'll keep trying. Ive some others still in que.

Cheers,
Schreiner



Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3649 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

But; how to kill the halo effect? Is that because of the zoom? Will a tripod help?

The halo effects are from oversharpening, whether you did it yourself in post-processing or the camera did it. Some cameras have in-camera default sharpening settings that are too high as it is.

I just checked out the Steve's Digicams review of this camera, and looked at some of the sample photos there. They also have halo effects, for example look at this shot:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/dx6490/samples/101_0071.JPG

Look at, especially, the edges of the red boats vs. the blue sky. There is a hard halo effect there similar to what's in your shot. So it seems like this is in-camera over-sharpening. Is there a "low sharpening" mode or something similar on this camera? (Or an actual sharpness setting like on an SLR?) I don't know much about this camera. That's probably the only way you could get rid of the halo effects, if there's some way to turn down the sharpening in the camera.

The review itself also says the jpeg compression in this camera is a little too aggressive and so some of the noise in your photo (like that boat photo too) is probably caused by the compression. Do you have the settings turned up to max quality and size?

NeatImage will definitely help with the compression noise; just don't be too overly aggressive with it. Use the preview feature and spend some time tweaking the settings so your photo has less noise but still looks natural.

Oh, and you asked about a tripod - a tripod would help your sharpness, that's the point of them. I don't personally think softness or blurriness are a big problem with this photo, though. But a tripod is good to use when you can just to ensure you're getting the best sharpness possible. They're not always convenient and you might not always want to (or be able to) use one, but you should at least have one as part of your equipment package. Having more than one is ideal - for example, a nice, big, heavy one for when you're going to plant yourself on the end of a runway somewhere for a while, and a tiny little travel tripod for those days when you just want to walk around with your camera. (A travel tripod is only like $20, so definitely worth buying.)

[Edited 2004-09-11 21:21:47]


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Spacecadet: thank you very much! I'm now testing my cam with different sharpness-settings. I'll keep you updated. Let's see if my photo's that are in the que right now will get accepted.

Cheers,
Schreiner



Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

I've got some in que where I can not find the halo effect, so the has to be something different. I guess that I need to correct the lighting a bit when shooting with much zoom and very sunny conditions. Is this a reasonable explanation?


Pic in que

Cheers,
Schreiner



Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 48
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

I don't think that picture will make it either. Quality is alright (although a bit soft) but you could have clipped off 150 pixels on the left. It's not centered very well.
Eduard

Another waving captain from Amsterdam... Jippee!  Insane


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