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I Dont Understand - I Am In Need Of Urgent Help!  
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3671 times:

Please help me..  Sad
I am FURIOUS!  Angry
it is about my film/self/SCANNER.

I've chose slides for a SPECIFIC REASON!
To get better quality scans.
Ive been using 95% of my shooting with negatives.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim



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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim



And yet, they are barely good enough to get accepted on to this site with warnings if Im lucky. And yet its tough as hell!
So some courteous and friendly photographers who are high quality shooters have advised that I should look at some slides, and they are magnificent quality with perfect colour and no grain.(When I looked at their shots on this site)

Now this is the second time that I used a Provia 100F to take pictures and when I scanned them, they came out GOD AWFUL!! So awful that they are a hundred times worse than my negative scans. I felt like crying. Sad These were supposed to come out beautifully, with Perfect colour, ABSOLUTELY NO FRICKIN GRAIN! but its the opposite. Ive tried in the past MANY MANY times to try and fix this but... My fate was unfortunate..  Sad


-=please Look at the dark areas that I circled.. This overall causes 99.9% of hard grief to me. and Provias have these grains?!=-

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ProjectPl/bobo2k/crap4.jpg
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ProjectPl/bobo2k/crap1.jpg
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ProjectPl/bobo2k/crap2.jpg
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ProjectPl/bobo2k/crap3.jpg
(This fourth link is a picture of a rabbit.. still bad like planes)

(You have to copy and paste link cuz its one of those sites. sorry about that)

These are the examples I have recently shot.
Some are actually good shots Ive taken but now look like garbage due to the problem.  Sad

When in the scanning menu after I previewed or Scanned..
The image looked NOTHING like the original in the way you see with a projector or with the naked eye.
(They look like EKTACHROME!)  Sad
The Brightness/Constrast it WAY UP! and when I try to adjsut, it does NO CHANGES!.. The Colour looks Rancid that I feel like crying. Provias are supposed to be good .. not like this!
Already only TWO slides came out the way I wanted them to come out. TWO OUT OF 100+slides I have came out in good quality.. They're both on ths site.
Ive wasted over 25 dollars on this one roll of film..  Sad

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Bo Kim


Hey, No grain! or way less than the others.

What is wrong with the rest???

Please I need your help! I've honestly kept this quiet for about 6 months now, thinking that I could fix this but I was wrong. I took these pictures like how I would take them with negative film and they came out like this pity..
Here is what I was looking for in a Provia film.
Somehow I did not find this when I scanned.
And yes these photographers I exampled, Id SERIOUSLY be heart filled if they can assist me..Because they are provia photographers. If you non fuji/side shooters but have the HPS20 scanner.. I would also dearly appreciate your help.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris weldy



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Weldy



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Charles Falk



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Photo © Charles Falk



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Photo © Aric Thalman



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Photo © Aric Thalman



(Even on cloudy darker days, these shots still look better than mine in quality  Sad I was gona put in Jan Mogrens shos cuz they are amazing and also Provia used [i think 98%])
Please help me as it will graciously make me feel happier.
I feel so saddened by this that I was about to weep like a little girl.  Sad
Ive had a bad day already.  Sad And I dont want to make this worse by getting this post erased by the admin because its a plea of assistance from a fellow photographer..

Im thinking that theres somehting wrong with the Scanner honestly but Im completely Puzzled.
I know a few that owns the same scanner but gets no problem unlike me.
I use a HP S20 Scanner and my slides comes out like crap while my prints come out decent..
Provia 100F and Sensia ll were ones I use and ones that suffered.

Once again, this post is a request for immediate attention. Something is going wrong and I am having a hard time dealing with it.

Thank you,
-
 Sad Bo Kim  Sad


Chance favors the prepared mind.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJared From United States of America, joined May 2001, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

I don't know much but the links of jpgs crap2.jpg etc etc cannot be found.

User currently offlineJared From United States of America, joined May 2001, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

Heh, i'm stupid, copy paste yeah yeah they work if you do that, sorry.

User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Bo,
haven't you tried VueScan yet?!
http://www.hamrick.com

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Bo,
check your email.
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 740 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3466 times:

Others may disagree with me, but the HP scanners (Photosmart and S20) are, in my opinion, not very good with slides - the main reason I ditched mine and moved to Nikon. The main problem is noise in dark areas - this looks like, but is not, grain. It is electronic noise generated by the scanner which becomes visible in the shadow areas. Vuescan software will help you overcome this as it allows multipass scanning - this means the scanner makes multiple scans of the image, then "averages" the result - as noise is by nature random and will occur in different patterns on each pass, the averaging is used by Vuescan to cancel out the effects.

It also sounds like you are having trouble with the colour space - that is, the manner in which the colour range on the slide is mapped to the (comparatively) limited ability of a computer to handle colour. The problem is more apparent with slides than negs, because slides have a wider range than slides, hence the effect of the conversion is more apparent. Again, the HP software is a bit limited in allowing you to manage this - Vuescan will give you more flexibility.

In short, there is a lot more to slide/neg scanning the sticking a film in and pressing the button. Most of us will have spent considerable time "tuning" our scanner set up to suit our films. You also need to make sure your monitor is properly calibrated, otherwise you won't know if the scanner is producing correct results.

Finally, don't think of your investment in Provia as wasted - if, as you say, the slides are of high-quality, well they're not going to disappear, so take the time to experiment until you can scan them properly ... at least you have a good target to work with.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineA380-200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3465 times:

Hi Bo,

I'd agree with Jared...more likely to be scanner noise than grain...you will notice this "effect" is pretty much absent on the brighter aircraft fuselage...  Big thumbs up

I used to get this a lot with my old slide scanner (Jenoptik JS21) but since getting my Acer Scanwit AND Vuescan I can scan most slides with no problems...  Big thumbs up

Be advised though that I am finding Vuescan 7.0 does not scan negs very well whereas Vuescan 6.4 did a really good job...anyone else noticed this or is it just me...?

And like Colin says..if the slides are ok...they'll be there for you when you do get hardware/software/process in place for scanning them...so hang in there.

Cheers,
Dean



User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Thanks for the advises so far
.. Im starting to feel better now.
They most certainly are good slides that I took.
Unfortuneatly the scans Ive done had made me kinda ticked off..

As for Vuescan..I have the 6.4 version but it is unregistered and my scanning capability is very limited so I havent used it ever since. And If I register, I'll get charged and I dont even have a credit card to pay for..
Unless, its possible to get a crack for this.

Jan: I got your email..
and replyed.

Bo.



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3954 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

I am inclined to agree with all of the conclusions given here.

One thing I did notice though and it concerns your CO 737 shot. I appears to be a little 'soft' or out of focus. Did you use an unsharpen mask on this ? If so, then perhaps the original shot is out of focus. Do you have a magnification Loupe as well as a lightbox. If you are serious about shooting slide, even negatives, these 2 tools are almost indispensable. The naked eye can not pick out minute flaws such as focusing problems or poor depth of field. The only way to see these before going to the trouble of scanning is to edit your work on a lighted surface, namely a lightbox, through a loupe. Both of these items a 4x loupe and a 8x10 lightbox can be had for around $20-$40 each, well worth the investment if you plan to keep on shooting slides as well as negs.

One other thing, with the shots that show increased grain...i.e. noise. Did you by chance crop any of these shots ? If you did, and depending on the amount of cropping done and the achiving the required size for A.Net, that will certainly increase the amount of noticable grain..

These are just my theories.

Good Luck,

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Those:
Your theories are agreeable 100%.
My shots were not cropped in any way.. Thats the truth,
I have a small slide projector but not a loupe. I can get those easy.. but a light box IM not sure.. its like 80-100 canadian dollars and way tooe xpansive..

But I will think and try out the vuescan thing and will welcome any other help I can get..

Bo



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Bo-

Try using the image editing GIMP (Graphics Interface Manipulating Program?).
Save all your original scanned files as *.TIF and work from there. I have been using PaintShopPro 5.0 and 6.0 up until now. Now I only use GIMP, and I personally think the quality is much higher. I must admit though, I am using very good equipment to start off with.

As Thomas said though, and I hate to admit it Bo, but a good loupe and lightbox is a must if you're truly serious about shooting slides. It's a once-in-a-lifetime investment, so I'd seriously consider getting them. You should be able to get both for $100CDN. I believe my "Mini-Pro" light box was about $60CDN alone. It's big enough to fit 6 slides (3 x 2 : to give you an idea how big it is).

-Rob




What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

hmm.. I never realized in a serious way that slide shooting would require not only the film and camera..
More accessories in the shopping list.
oh boy, I guess you guys are right about that.
I'll take a look at both loupe and light table and consider it as quick as I can if my budget can handle an additional 100+ dollars.

Well, as for the GIMP.. is there a website where I can download that program Rob? Im eager to try it out.
I am using Vuescan right now and tinkering around with some shots. I am feeling a little better with how the results are.. But I still do see the grain/noise in my scans.

I also need help with that multi scan thing.
Colin had mentioned the multi scan function and I found it and gave it a try, well when I saw the final scan, it looked very blurry.. I set it to 5 passes, and now I see 5 fuselage lines on my airplane picture.
Is there a way to solve this fender-bender?

Bo



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Bo,

Have a look at DOWNLOADS.COM . Search for GIMP. It's not a big program, but it takes a little getting used to. Once you find out what works, it's well worth it. But, you have to be honest here, there is absolutely no way of reducing every single speck of "noise" from the shadowed area. Everytime you "sharpen" a picture, it automatically adds "noise" to these areas, and there is little that you can do about. Unsharpen mask helps, but it certainly doesn't solve the problem. The only difference is that I shoot only Kodachrome, which from what I've heard is fairly tough to handle... but I feel that I've tamed that beast  Laugh out loud.
My latest 2 uploads were edited with GIMP. Have a look, Bo. Keep in mind, A.Net compresses the photos a fair bit to save disk space... the original is over 600k, where as the one on A.Net is about 180k.

-Rob




What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Thank you for your help Rob.
I'll download that program.
I guess Im aware that everything is not possible but Im just getting fed up with all those o"noises"
And Congrads for taming the Beasty Kodachrome..!
 Big thumbs up

bo



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Hey Bo, its 2am here in indiana so i'll make this quick...

are you using a polarizer? all my pictures shot w/ a polarizer wont scan right. *period* i hardly even try those anymore...

just curious, i'll expand on that more tommorow...



CHRIS


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3355 times:

Hi Bo,

Sorry to see that you're having problems. I assume that your slides are fine when you look at them through a loupe or a viewer. I also assume that you have the latest drivers, and have tried Vuescan, etc.

The S20 scanner is a funny one. Some people swear by it, and other people have had no end of problems with it. It seems to be a product with more than its share of querks in it. Not having one myself, I can't say much more than what I have heard.

My Nikon Coolscan III loves Provia, but hates Kodachrome, so the issue is not unique.

The scanner is the most critical piece of equipment you have, if you are loading pictures on this site. I've seen a lot of people coming on this forum asking for advice on the proper equipment, and they ask about cameras, lenses and films, but the scanner appears to often be the afterthought.

I would consider the following ranking in terms of the quality of the equipment:

(1) Scanner
(2) Film
(3) Lens
(4) Body

Considering your problems, I would recommend that, if you are now saving up for a camera upgrade, divert that money into a good scanner. Read all the reviews, and take a good slide to different shops, and ask to try out the scanner with it (if you can, save the result on a diskette so you can compare the results at home.) All scanners will have slightly different results. I also had a Minolta scanner that were just as sharp as the Nikon scanner, but the scans were otherwise hugely different.

If you can't afford one right now, relax. Go ahead and shoot your pictures while you wait. As Colin said before, your slides will still be there when you do. Once you have the scanner considder processing all the old slides a project for wintertime when the weather is lousy and you can't take new pictures.

Cheers,

Charles


User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 740 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 3353 times:

BO-einG - I'm not sure I can explain the "5 lines" which occur when you use multi-pass scanning - or the bluriness. This sounds like a possible scanner problem - position of the image shifting slightly on each pass? As someone else said, the S20 is an odd beast, and quality does seem to vary between individual scanners. Using 5 passes is a bit unusual - most people prefer to work with multiples of 2. In my experience, 2-4 passes results in a significant improvement, and 8 in a slight further improvement - beyond that can't see any different! I would strongly recommend that you find someone with a credit card to get a proper version of Vuescan - it is frequently updated (currently v.7.021 I think) and Ed Hammrick provides superb user support.

Someone mentioned problems scanning negs with the current version of Vuescan - this has been reported a number of times on the filmscanners list, though I haven't noticed it myself. The problem appears to be in the colour masking. The suggested work-around is do a rawscan to disk, then rescan from disk using variations in the colour masking.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (13 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Hey Chris, bout time youve responded to my post!
I have a polarizer and I use it.
I dont think that causes much of an negative effect..
Well it was a little bit when I used the original HP Scan Menu, with lots of noise on the pictures, For Vuescan, I cracked it and It now registered, I scan again and notice noise but its not as much.

Im beggining to get a little bit happier..
As for Colin, ya, the blurriness and those 5 lines.
I read the faq and it said that all scanners, Minolta, Nikon are workable with the multipass function EXCEPT the HP Photosmart scanners..
Too bad it included my HPS20.. So the s20 is imcompatible with the multipass.. DAMM!!  Angry
But Ive found another way to slightly improve my overall scans with the image reduction.. I set it to 2 -3
and it scans with reduced size.. but Im still learning more baout that.

Right now Charles, I do not have any plans for an upgrade. Already 800 dollars was spent and I dont think something like that can occur again.. Firstly, my city does not sell that much of a variety.. its This the Minolta Scan Dual l. and the Nikon coolscan something.
All over 500.. jeez..
Slide processings all done in capital city so I dont knwo who I send these slides to.. The one i chose was the cheapest I could find.


Overall, I thank you for your help guys.. I am very much appreciated and I do feel better, and Iw ill continue shooting slides and scannign them to airliners.net..

Peace..  Big grin

Bo



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

There is another option... Getting your pics put onto Photodiscs right from the developer. I think they do that both with negative and slide film.

Have you tried that? You might not get the best results in the world, but it may be better than what you are currently getting.

Charles


User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (13 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

Eeee..
Ive heard about negative shots being on CDs, but not from slides.
Ill get scharged additionaly and also I am not sure if I can get the lab to do that as I dont know what their number or place is. But I will try and get more info about that if I can.

Im worried that the resolution they put on may be too small like 540/300 or something.
Or they may compress the pictures to make it come out corny.

BO



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (13 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
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Hi Bo

Have you ever thought that the shots themselves are crap and it is not the scanning or the scanner??

Best to have a look at that first.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineUSAir_757 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 996 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (13 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Gary,

If you read the whole post he states that the shots themselves were fine!

IT seems to me as an improper editing method. As rob stated, use GIMP and then unsharp mask.


Regards
Cullen



-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
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