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A Thread To Prove The Screeners Are Fair  
User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

I remember reading concerns, voiced by the participants of this forum, that the screening crew could manipulate the photographers viewcount, by simply uploading the photo at an inopportune time.

Mainly by uploading the photo just before midnight Swedish time. Now I for one do not believe for a second that this could be true and am saddened the subject was ever brought up.

So, to absolve the screeners of all doubt, I thought of this thread.

If you think your best photos are always uploaded just before midnight, post the email "sent" and "received" times here.

If the same names crop up over and over, then maybe the screeners might find this thread helpful and make sure the said person might sometimes get better upload times.



[Edited 2004-10-25 16:32:50]

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

Sent 24.10.2004 23:57  Big grin
Received 24.10.2004 23.57

-Pepef-


User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2037 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

"Now I for one do believe for a second that this could be true and am saddened the subject was ever brought up.".

Now there's a Freudian slip.





It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

Thanks Sulman, I corrected that.

-pepef-


User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5592 times:

Peter,

Lets just clarify things a little - it is true that, for any given picture, the likelihood is that the picture will get more hits if it makes it onto the database just after Swedish midnight than it will if it goes on just before Swedish midnight. The reason for this is that each picture appears in the "Most popular of last 24/48 hours" view on the calendar day on which it is accepted, and the following day, based on Swedish time. It is clear therefore that a picture that makes it onto the database at 23:59 Swedish time will be in this view for 24 hours and one minute, whereas a picture that makes it onto the database at 00:01 Swedish time (two minutes later) will appear in that view for 47 hours and 59 minutes. As many site visitors appear to use this view to look at new uploads, it follows that pictures posted just after Swedish midnight are in view for almost twice as long as those posted just before Swedish midnight.

Of course, NOTHING will get an all-so-ran picture views - the most part of getting views is uploading a good original picture - a really GOOD picture will get viewed plenty anyway, and in my opinion this before/after midnight thing is just a crutch that some folks with marginal images try to cling to, to justify hit counts lower than they hoped for.

Now, to understand the screening process - It is of course a fact that a.net has screeners from Europe, the US, and Australia (at least). Swedish midnight is of course midnight across most of western Europe, its 23:00 in the UK, 18:00 on the US east coast, and 14:00 on the US west coast. It is something like 09:00 in eastern Australia. So, notwithstanding the fact that we don't fish specific people's pictures out of the queue, it is of course obvious that there is a vast conspricy going on - by habit the screeners in Europe mainly screen just before they go to bed, screeners in the eastern US screen just after they leave work, screeners on the west coast screen in the early afternoon, and screeners in Australia screen after they get up in the morning. And we do this, each group works at different times of the day, with the express intention of upsetting those few photographers who seem to think hits are everything by processing their pictures at the most inopportune time.

----

YEAH, RIGHT - NOT! In reality its a lottery as pictures are presented in a system determined order which screeners don't influence. Or, to put it another way - if anyone thinks that there's a conspiracy going on amongst the screeners, just to cheat a few photographers out of a few hits, then their energy would be better directed towards getting out more and spending more time taking really good pictures, than it is worrying about whether anyone here will see them.

Andy


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5545 times:

"So, to absolve the screeners of all doubt, I thought of this thread."

Unbelievable is the only thing that comes to mind.


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5504 times:

aloha,

I ve brought up that topic several times. I ve got never any support from anyone, I ve came up with solutions ! instead I was bashed by screeners, forummoderators and my kind friends, which I entitle plugmasters ..... , I only have to look into my emialbox - 80% of my last 75 uploads have been accepted 3 hrs or less before midnight!!! - BUT ITS ALL BADLUCK- YEAH, OF COURSE!!!

robin

ps: and now , pls bash me again and yell at me .....



ABC
User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5493 times:

"...the most part of getting views is uploading a good original picture - a really GOOD picture will get viewed plenty anyway..."

I used to belive in this but it's obvious there are other factors: time of upload and number of uploaded photos. I have good original pictures uploaded 30 minutes before midnight in days when were uploaded +1500 photos, obviously my picture was dissolved and received a "low" number of views.

I'm not complaining, I'm not asking nothing, just telling facts and accepting the system, because this was brought up.

Luis


User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5482 times:

Skymonster you've shattered another illusion I had of a.net. I thought the screeners all got up at 00.00 Swedish time to pick the days best shots from the queue. I better add this to the conspiracy theory list of why my shots get added evening time GMT:
  • I only upload a couple of shots at a time so they get screened after the big batches.

  • I'm not a big name

  • My surname begins with "S", so I'm near the end

  • I only shoot GA/Helicopters and people aren't interested (and judging by my hit rate they're not!)


  •  Nuts

    Seriously I couldn't give a stuff about what time they are added. Once the pictures are in the database they will sink or swim on their own merit.


    [Edited 2004-10-25 17:58:11]

    User currently offlineSA006 From South Africa, joined Sep 2003, 1883 posts, RR: 54
    Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5419 times:

    My surname begins with "S", so I'm near the end

    We screen alphabetically now?

    Rgds
    SA006



    Proudly South African
    User currently offlineAirKas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 4028 posts, RR: 55
    Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5374 times:

    Read carefully:

    I better add this to the conspiracy theory list


    User currently offlineTonimr From Spain, joined Jan 2001, 325 posts, RR: 23
    Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

    I ve came up with solutions !

    I think there must be a problem to give solutions.

    Why do you think the number of hits it's so important?

    Do you REALLY think that we pick up somebody's photos after 0:00 to give them some extra hits and some other's just before to ruin their numbers?

    80% of my last 75 uploads have been accepted 3 hrs or less before midnight!!! - BUT ITS ALL BADLUCK- YEAH, OF COURSE!!!

    Do you know other contributor's stats?

    Most of my photos are ALSO screened between 23:00 and 0:00, so what? maybe some screener wants me bad? or all of them?

    We are VERY BUSY to lose time doing things like that and to defend ourselves from unfounded charges.




    There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
    User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

    " the most part of getting views is uploading a good original picture - a really GOOD picture will get viewed plenty anyway,"

    Might be true, but check this out......


    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Mario Aurich
    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Sam Chui



    The first one was uploaded before midnight and the second one was uploaded after midnight and therefore is staying longer in the 24/48 hrs queue

    A difference in hits 3000 and counting....later on a difference in 20000 hits, since it will be the picture of the day.

    The flight deck shot did pretty good (about 2500 hits) for a 25 hrs life. If it had been uploaded after midnight, I am pretty certain that it would have been right on top!

    Vasco






    User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
    Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5213 times:

    at Tonimr: you are getting me wrong ....

    why does A.net not just put up a kind of 12 accepting times to get rid of that discussion? say the last bunch gets accepted at 20:00 or 21:00 ? and then at 00:01 we put those in , which got accepted between 21:00 and 24:00 ?

    btw: also once again: I DONT GIVE S____ ABOUT VIEWS, otherwise I would plug, load up only windowshots , cockpitshoots, etc, etc ... , I just want that everybody is treated equal. A.net came up with that 24-48 hrs , and all these static features, which I actually like, but there are not very exact - AND THIS IS MY POINT!

    as soon you screeners read something like this, you allways think its against you -NO - it is not!

    Robin

    PS: I am out of here ... , wont take action in the forum for the next months ..., cheers




    ABC
    User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

    I don't agree with different upload times, that's a kind of getting "paranoiac" about it.

    What I don't agree also is the idea that good photos will be viewed, that's naif and in reality it doesn't work that way.

    Does this photo deserves 629 views?

    View Large View Medium

    Photo © Luis Rosa


    I never say I have good photos, I never write pretentious remarks of how good and sharp my photos are, I leave that always to the viewer to decide, but in this case I know this photo deserves more than 629 views.

    Luis

    [Edited 2004-10-25 20:29:18]

    User currently offlineTonimr From Spain, joined Jan 2001, 325 posts, RR: 23
    Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

    Robin, nothing against you but...

    why does A.net not just put up a kind of 12 accepting times to get rid of that discussion?

    Maybe because there are a lot of important things to do? Anyway, you can send your suggestion to the admins...

    and all these static features (.....) but there are not very exact - AND THIS IS MY POINT!

    Numbers should be taken as they are: number of views=xxxx, if you know the method how they've been calculated, they are exact. The problem arises when someone tries to measure the quality or interest of a photograph by these means...

    As per the screeners attitude, the name of this topic is self explanatory.  Big grin



    There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
    User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
    Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

    Great shot Luis, certainly deserved my hit...now 630  Smile

    I've learned that high hits doesn't always = good (spectacular) photo. For example, Sam's shot listed above by Vasco. There's nothing overly "great" about it photo-wise but it is very interesting to viewers, overviews tend generate large hits. No disrespect meant to Sam or the photo itself, I think you guys know what I mean.

    Personally I don't pay much attention to hits. That's why you'll still see tons of plain old boring 50mm side on uploads from me, I personally find them more interesting. But that's me. Some people prefer to upload hit-generating photos only, that's cool also. If we all uploaded the same type of shots it would be pretty boring.

    Now I just gotta find a way to get my uploads accepted at 1201am  Big grin

    Mike

    [Edited 2004-10-25 20:49:27]

    User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
    Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

    Luis, in a word, yes, your MON shot deserves more, a lot more.
    Spencer.



    EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
    User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5111 times:

    I really don't care that much about views, if I did I would have "imploded" a long time ago. But I'm not blind, I visit this website every single day, I see the kind of photos that are listed on the most popular section, and I'm not a machine, I have my own behave.

    Luis
    P.S. thanks Mike and Spencer, I don't want claps in my back but appreciate it.

    [Edited 2004-10-25 21:05:16]

    User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

    Luis,

    you definitely deserve a pat on your back.
    Your work to say the least is stunning. Don't know why, but if this was a "SC @ LAX shot" it would have been top of the 24/48hrs section....for sure.

    That shot is a killer!!!!!!!
    647 and counting..........

    Vasco


    User currently offlineLHSebi From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 1049 posts, RR: 8
    Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

    Awesome Luis! I have admired your shots for a while, and this is certainly no exception! Nice going!

    Sebastian



    I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
    User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

    Please guys, I appreciate it but it's not my wish to turn this topic into a "congratulate me" thing.

    Luis


    User currently offlineBronko From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 810 posts, RR: 11
    Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

    Peter, if you are wondering why your Finnair cockpit shots are getting the hits like they used to, it is NOT because of the time they are being added to the DB....


    Jet City Aviation Photography
    User currently offlineTZ From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 1085 posts, RR: 52
    Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4941 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

    Ok, ok. We've been caught with our trousers-down. We do have what we screeners call "the list".

    The list comes into play at 23:00 and 00:00 (Swedish time). Here's how it works - we can add names to the List and give them a positive or a negative points score. If the total points are negative, then the photographer gets their pictures screened at 23:00, positive points totals get their photos screened at 00:00. The higher the points score in either direction, the closer to exactly midnight the screening is done.

    It's entirely up to screeners discretion who they put on the list and there is no voting or justification needed. It's really used where we feel we need to get "our own back" on photographers because we're quite an unhappy and uncharitable bunch behind the scenes.

    We maintain the positive list solely for people who say nice things about us in the forums, irrespective of the quality of their photographs.

    Oh, and we store the list safely in our black-helicopter parked up on the grassy knoll. Or did we film it all in hangar in the desert?

    Tamsin (a.net screening crew)

    [Edited 2004-10-25 22:34:21]


    TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
    User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
    Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

    I know you're lying Tamsin. I know for a fact that the helicopter is blue.

    -pepef-


    25 Diezel : Now Tamsin told us about the List I can finally tell my little secret too: I'm encoding my pictures with special pixels, so that when a screener looks
    26 Post contains images Sukhoi : Luis, Its a MON 752 thats your problem It might be a good shot but for most the subject doesnt make it worth looking at, now if it was a UAL 744......
    27 Clickhappy : dont forget to count and post your rejection emails, too.
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