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Advice On Cropping Please  
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3673 times:
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I am very keen to understand more fully the criteria used by screeners for photo acceptance, so here goes with another question for you guys out there.

I have put this photo in the queue - partly in order to be able to provide a link for it, which I have now learned how to do.

http://airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/GWWBM1311.jpg

If I were a screener I myself think that there may be problems with this one due to the cropping. I recognise that this is a very frequently photographed aircraft, and for this reason alone new photos accepted will have to be 'different' or exceptional in some way. According to my own view, I think I have scored points on the 'different' criterion - I do like the contrast between the bright red elevators and the blue colour scheme. However, I am not happy with the cropping, but this is the best I think I can do given what I have with the original (there is not that much more of the original outside this crop).

I am frustrated with myself for not having zoomed out a bit more at the time, but it is as it is. Basically I am worried that the lack of a complete nacelle on the left, together with only half the undercarriage in view, will cause this to be rejected. Though the elevators are 'balanced' in the photo, I am also concerned that the relative lack of balance in other areas - i.e. space to the right of the engine on the right, but the left being cut off - would be a fatal flaw.

I would value comments to help my education, as I am not keen to waste screener's time, or increase my already healthy ratio of rejections.

Still learning a lot.

Thanks.

Paul

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTin67 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 268 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Paul,

It's spot on in terms of colour and clarity, I really like that fact that the elevators are being tested as it really adds colour to the shot. But...

As you say above the zoom factor is too much. It may well be rejected for badmotiv as the undercarriage and starboard engine are not included in the full frame. Pity it's a really nice shot otherwise.

I'm sure you'll get another opportunity to get a shot like this. I'm always having to do this, try try again. You'll nail it next time.

Regards
Martin  Smile


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3584 times:
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Thanks Martin. Unfortunately the photo had been rejected before any further debate could be had. So the original link has now gone. The new link is:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/GWWBM1311.jpg

Although I cannot argue with a rejection I am still interested to hear whether anyone can think of a way this photo could be cropped differently, and potentially saved. Or is the lesson that if certain elements of a photo are cropped/not complete then it will always fall foul of the screening process, whatever else is happening in the photo?

Paul

P.S. As previously, no sour grapes here - just looking for further clarification.


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Is this the original Paul or did you crop it your self already ?
I like the pic. though it really needs another crop which would not be a problem if you had a few pixels more to offer.

Willem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Sorry to say, but the shot just does not look right without the whole gear in frame. Qualitywise it's very good.

Don't zoom that much next time, it's a nice motive!

Regards,
Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineEuropean From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

I like the picture bit as INNflight said

I would not have zoomed in as much

and...

I would like to have seen the Gear!

******

Good luck though in the future. I am having problems too with the whole cropping and editing thing.


European


User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Like Florian said, without the complete gear I think it's a lost case but in case you had it, I would crop this way:



To me, it looks more balanced.

Or in case your original is big enough like for example 3072px and in case the quality keeps good, I would also think about this way:



It removes lots of empty space (the sky).

Luis


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3510 times:
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Thanks Fellas. Unfortunately the original does not have the complete gear, though what you see is cropped slightly. Basically I have to admit I messed up with this. It was one of those situations where I had about a second and I was so focused on catching the elevators and not messing that part of the photo up that I forgot to think about the gear (and the other engine nacelle). Good learning experience though. However, I wish I was as optimistic as Martin in his earlier response about their being another similar opportunity - this happening near the holding point, in good light (at Manchester) and me being there at the same time - I'm not so sure!

But I do like Luis' latest offering. They definitely look more balanced. The original is 3072 x 2048, so that second close in crop would be viable - if the lack of complete gear would not still negate the chances of acceptance.

Any other (screeners') views on that? And thanks to Luis for taking the time to mess with the image.

Paul


User currently offlineJofa From Sweden, joined Apr 2002, 320 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Why not tilt the camera 90 degrees the next time?

User currently offlineTRACON From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Try to get as centered as possible, and take Multiple shots adjusting the focal length each time. Your motive is great, but the angle isn't  Sad

Overall good, though. Also, that 3rd crop looks a lot better than the first.

Keep up the good work

-Tracon


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3415 times:
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Firstly, thanks to all for your helpful comments so far. I have a couple of things to add:

I am still keen to salvage something from this image if at all possible - especially as, with the weather like it is today, it is almost impossible to imagine Manchester in the sunshine again! But this kind of debate is also helping my general education on these matters. I have recropped the original image - close in, rather similar to Luis' 2nd cropping suggestion, but losing all the gear. Unfortunately I cannot work out how to post that image with this thread without making a new link to a resubmission (or a link to some other web space) - so how did you do that Luis? I want to get further feedback here before uploading another image likely to be rejected.

Also, when I look at my new cropped image, even though it still shows off the bright red elevators nicely (and the contrast with the blue of the fuselage is basically the motive for this shot), I become concerned that it resembles too closely another image that I already have on the database (see below).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Markman



However, this photo is of G-WWBB, whereas the crop we are referring to is another airframe, G-WWBM. Therefore I would also be grateful for your comments as to whether the obvious similarity between the 2 images would mean that it would be likely to be the cause of a rejection, irrespective of whether the screener thought the new cropping was acceptable. Or, as they are different airframes, does any similarity becomes irrelevant. Or, finally, should I just give up and put it down to experience?

Clear as mud? I hope so.

Paul


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3380 times:
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I have plucked up the courage to give this another go - in the absence of any further feedback - and it is now in the queue again. If anyone is interested it now looks like this:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/GWWBM1311.jpg

I would still value any comments, especially relating to the similarity with the other BMI 330 photo, prior to this image getting to the front of the queue. If I am refusing to accept defeat and can't see that do let me know. My rejection rate is improving, but too 'healthy' for my liking, and so I am keen to avoid another one if it is obvious to others.

Thanks again.

Paul


User currently offlineEuropean From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

Psych,

Good luck - it would be nice to see it on a.net - The red flaps look great so it may get up-loaded!

European
Jimmi


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3329 times:
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A brief thank you to all of you who have given me feedback on this one. Some wonderful screener has allowed it on to the database. A special thanks to Luis for his efforts.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Markman



Paul


User currently offlineEuropean From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

I saw it on the databass a few day's ago,

Well done!

European
Jimmi


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
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Thanks for that Jimmi.

Paul


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