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Need Info NOW!- New TSA Directive Banning Photos?  
User currently offlineLaw4fun From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Just received a call from a couple of friends who were photographing arrivals in the public observation area at TUL this afternoon. The airport police came around, did a field interview, checked ID and came back and said their sergeant said they would have to leave. According to this Sgt. Hicks, there was a new TSA directive that made it illegal to take photos of arriving and departing aircraft. They called me and I got on the phone....

I first called the Director of Airport Ops who was out. I then called the airport police who had an immediate attitude with me questioning their directives. I spoke with Sgt. Hicks who told me that according to a directive from TSA dated 24 NOV 04, it was now illegal to take photos of commercial aircraft. I asked him who issued the directive and where did it come from. He told me it did not have a name on it and that it came from Washington, DC from the office of Homeland Security. I asked TSA or Homeland Security? Then I got the line, "It is a matter of national security" He then told me that he was not going to discuss it any longer with me; that I could call Nancy McNair, the airport attorney. I called her and she knew nothing about it and suggested that I call Steve Cortwright, the TSA Security Director for Tulsa. I called him and he likewise knew nothing about it but advised that he would check for me and phone my law office in the morning to let me know of the results of his checking. He was a decent fellow who did not have the airport police mentality of "I'm right, your'e wrong, so beat it..."

So, has anyone else heard this or is Sgt. Hicks full of hot air and s**t?
Let me hear from you if you have any knowledge of this "new directive"....


Canon Shutter Slut
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Sounds to me like the police have just fed you some royal bullshit.

User currently offlineFLYBHX From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Appears to be the usual attempt to blind them with bullshit approach because noone will dare to disagree with the national security line - transparently pathetic as I would have thought that all new stuff of that type would be gone over to the nth degree by the civil liberties folks

User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4845 times:

nothing showing up on the TSA website.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

I agree. I would think if this "directive" were true, any law enforcement would have no problem giving you a copy or directing you to where you may find one. If I were Sgt. Hicks and had this offical directive I would have no problem telling you to come on down and check it out. So, it's matter of National Security that you cannot find out that there is a directive to ban aircraft photography. hmmmmm.....

Mike


User currently offlineVisityyj From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

Typical ignorant, bullying coptalk.

You can either ignore them, or if you're really p*ssed off about it then file a complaint with the airport. You seem to know the right people to deal with.


User currently offlineLurch From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Hi this link probably will not work knowing me but its the TSA home page if you get the run around From the sergeant you could always ask the TSA direct!

http://www.tsa.gov/public/


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Arrrrgh, its frustrating sometimes...you know you are doing nothing wrong....but they like to make you feel as you are...I tried to explain to him about a month ago when me and fellow A.netter xpfg were at TUL for an hour or so when the APO decide to come off the field with his lights on feeding us a line about photography is not allowed. I then asked since when (not giving him time to use 9/11 as the excuse) that we were out there almost weekly and "you guys usually drive by and wave at us". He then proceeded to tell us they had a new bulletin that said it wasn't allowed. He then asked us multiple times who we worked for, lol, we of course told him no one and that it was just a hobby. I think at this point he could tell by the looks on our faces that we still weren't buying it, so he radioed for another officer, who then showed up and was MUCH more understanding. His last name was Whitlock...he did take our names, filed reports, took pics of the car and US, told us would be filed with the FBI. We WERE allowed to continue shooting after this. So I guess here, and among other places, it all comes down to who is in charge at any given time, because they are VERY inconsistent with their patrolling....a couple days after that indident, Jim, Ralph, Jarrod, and I were in the south observation lot (where we were today) and Jim and I were on top of his suburban for 10 minutes when the APO showed up, the warning this time..."Just don't fall off the roof guys" So, I just wish they would get their act together and stop throwing, lame, hollow exucses out there! Thanks Jim for calling right away for us....we did stay a bit longer after putting our gear away, nothing interesting came in anyway  Smile

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

It sounds to me like you need to file a complaint with the airport against Hicks for harassment or maybe use your profession to scare the crap out of him.


The only ban I can find, and it has not even taken affect yet, is the MTA's ban on photography in the N.Y. Subway.



User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

Looks like he was messing with you...certainly the TSA director of the airport would know about a new TSA directive!!!  Yeah sure
Good to hear that you are following this through rather than just taking the harassment. If you think about it, the whole premise of his so called "directive" is ridiculous. Commercial aircraft are everywhere...saying it is illegal to take pictures of them is like saying it is illegal to take pictures of semi trucks or boats. Just purely ridiculous!


User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

It seems that the US is a No Go zone for spotters. Are there any otherplaces around the world where cops lack brains?


South Australian Spotter
User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4512 times:
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I wouldn't completely say the US is a no go zone. Here at PHL, there have been really no incidents to speak of in quite a while. One of our local photographers who is there several times a week has a "Hassle Alert" level on his site based on the US Terrorsim Threat Level. Currently our "Hassle Alert" resides on the lowest level.

I think what the problem is, is that you only hear about the bad incidents and "bad" cops, without ever hearing about the hundreds that go and spot everyday without problems. Of course certain airports don't like spotters, most of which have always been that way (even before 9/11).

I'll be back out at PHL on Sunday, and probably again next Wednesday based on weather forcasts, and I hope to have productive shooting.

Joe Wagner



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

The only ban I can find, and it has not even taken affect yet, is the MTA's ban on photography in the N.Y. Subway.

IIRC the ban was rejected/not approved.

Mike


User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4447 times:

how does it feel to live in the land of the free :P i was told by one friendley policeman i wasnt allowed to park in a carpark the other week, unfortunatley it was the weekend, during the week its stuffed with cars, would have loved to have seen him tell me i couldnt park there with 40 other cars sitting there, seams he would prefer me parking next to a crashgate which im not comfortable with

User currently offlineLaw4fun From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4356 times:

Got a phone call from Nancy McNair, the airport attorney, around 5:00 pm on Friday afternoon. Ms. McNair advised me that there was no such directive probhibiting photography of aircraft. She advised that the a/p police would continue to make contact and check ID's but photography was not illegal. I thanked her for her time and professional courtesy.

Sgt. Hicks and his "directive" were, just as I knew, a figment of his own imagination.... Time will tell what Hicks will pull now that we have called his hand on the issue and shown him to be wrong. Hopefully, he will resume his roving patrol of the cargo areas and perimeter roads and leave the photographers alone, once and for all.



Canon Shutter Slut
User currently offlineKC7MMI From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4350 times:

Perhaps you should get something in writing from the police and/or airport ops stating that photography isn't a problem. Also, you migh even call up Sgt. Hicks' Lt and have a word with him.
-Benjamin


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

Ditto on the letter from the airport attorney, and with a letterhead of course too. I was at RIC today where I have only had 2 problems before, and did not have any troubles. I was even using an even larger camera than before (20D w/ 100-400) and they just went on about their business. Good Luck!


Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Was at LGA today taking a few shots from the Terminal. Next to me was a TSA guy on lunch. He asked me what I was doing. I told him and he said "can I see some of the shots" (digital). Showed him and he was asking all kinds of photography questions and enjoying the pics. I asked him about this so-called new "directive". He told me he heard nothing about it and was only told to restricted photography around the security/screening area. His break was up and as he was leaving said "have a good time...."

At least there are still intelligent life on the airport  Smile

Mike


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Jim, you are the man! Thanks for getting us word from Ms. McNair...just as we suspected, we knew we were doing nothing wrong, I too think it would be a good idea if we could get some kind of letter from the TAA Attorney Office to keep in our bags should the situation arise, once again thanks Jim, now just if the rain would hold off tomorrow, things would be great, lol

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineJuanchopancho From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

Today a police officer stopped to check my ID while I was spotting in Detroit. I was in middle of taking pictures when I hear "Hey what are you doing!?" I turn around and there's the police officer. I pointed to my DSLR with a big zoom lens meaning: "What does it look like I'm doing?"
The police officer told me that they had instructions to check every plane spotter. He said I needed permission from the tower and the FAA to take pictures! I had one hell of an internal chuckle at this remark, "Yeah sure officer, I'll ask for permission from the tower and the FAA."  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineLaw4fun From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Just got off the phone with Ken Miller, the Director of Airport Ops for TUL. He said that he didn't know where the a/p police got such a notion but that he would be addressing the situation with them. He has been a good guy in the past and is not anti-photographer by any stretch of imagination. He told me that he would get back with me when he had addressed the situation with them.
Hopefully, when he speaks to Hicks and Co., the problem will be solved once and for all. Thanks to all for your comments and emails.

Jim



Canon Shutter Slut
User currently offlineFlybhx From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Just to add a perspective from a visitor. I was in the US for the NBAA at Vegas and had no problems anywhere I visited for the whole fortnight.

Normal service is gradually returning I think.

Nice work on getting the situation resolved Jim


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Has any airliners.net member ever been charged/fined/taken to court for spotting. Or is the worst anyone's ever had was their name written down and checked out by police?

I've spotted at DTW many time from the parking deck to the north and south roads by the runways and I have never been stopped. I do keep notice to my surroundings and when I see a metro-car airport authority or a cop car I get back into my car and move to my next spot. Not that I wish upon this, but if anything ever did happen an Airport Authority Board Member is close to my family and some executive and I have meet before for business reasons..so I hope i'd get the bail from them.


User currently offlineJuanchopancho From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

"I do keep notice to my surroundings and when I see a metro-car airport authority or a cop car I get back into my car and move to my next spot."

Unfortunately this is what it's come to. I've also been to the parking decks at DTW many times and haven't had any issues, but they aren't patrolled as heavily and it's much harder for them to see you spotting amongst all the vehicles.

As far as I'm concerned they can say whatever they feel like but unless they charge me for breaking the law, which I'm not, then it really doesn't concern me too much. They're just being paranoid and doing their job. So if they check you out just be polite, cooperate, say "Sir!" a lot and have your ID or several IDs. Then go somewhere else and take more pictures.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineSnowJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 207 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

The airport cops are full of shit...period. There is nothing any of them can do to anyone for simply taking photos of commercial aircraft. If that were the case, they'd have to arrest so many people worldwide that it's not even funny! Juanchopancho is right...just don't give the police any real reason to be any more paranoid than they already are and you should have no worries. When I get back to the States I fully intend to start photographing at the nearest airport...not to mention my next AFB!  Big grin


Jaysen F. Snow - Midwest Tail Chasers
25 Dendrobatid : As a Cop with more than 30 years of service (not at airports) I feel that I need to comment here. I am having my own little spot of bother with one pa
26 BO__einG : A few years back, one of the photographers of this website was arrested for taking pictures of arriving planes at Don Muang Airport. He was like a goo
27 Dendrobatid : Bo_eing makes a point. We are talking here about the 'Western world' Extreme caution should be used in other places. I love seeing the photos from Chi
28 Post contains images Fiveholer : Hehe, we had thought all of the Airport police had gotten used to us at Tulsa, but I guess not...I went back out 2 days after Jim had gotten the clear
29 Sulman : The police I've encountered seem to betray a slight disdain for most security people. It's always the security or car parking attendant that will give
30 Post contains images Flybhx : Mick, Let me guess the airport - East Midlands? Securicors finest with their blue light fitted cars. I keep waiting to see one off airport property bu
31 Post contains images Lindy : BO_einG, Wow, more time from that event and people are making bigger stories. Next time people will mention this story they will say that he was also
32 Post contains images SnowJ : Way to go Danny! Don't let 'em give you any sh*t! James is right though, I have never had any real troubles from actual cops--or as I say, REAL police
33 Post contains images Law4fun : Well, Sunday was my first trek after all the hullabaloo by Sgt. Hicks and Co. I was prepared for the worst, having the Airport Ops Director's cell pho
34 Post contains images Sunilgupta : Thanks for setting that straight Rafal! Technically I was never arrested. I was the one who drove one of the police officers to the police station ...
35 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : One reason I LOVE TVC. Not the greatest traffic, but, we do not have this problem (Yet anyway, knock on wood ) When Steve Kempf and I were waiting the
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