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Opinions, Please!  
User currently offlineElcableguy77 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 523 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

As was well documented in here about 2 weeks or so ago, I took some pictures at ORF, using a Canon PowerShot G1 After going through all the photos, I came down to two that looked as though they'd be suitable for addition to the photo collection. They are my first submissions. Having submitted them today, I know it'll be a day or two at the least before I hear something from the screeners. While I wait, I though I'd see what everyone in here thinks about them.
The two photos are:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/N677BR_GMW.jpg
and
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/N249PS.jpg
Any comments would be welcome.
Thanks!
-Gavin


Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

is this a serious question? the first one is plain nasty, the 2nd is so dark i can barely see the winglet.

forget them both, better still, delete them from your que and save wasting the screeners time...



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
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Hi Gavin,

I am afraid to say that I think the screeners will give both these photos the thumbs down. One of the key issues is the distance of the main subject from the camera and, as a result, the fact that the plane does not fill the frame. This tends to lead to a rejection for 'bad distance' (I think I am correct that this is the criterion used), unless there is some other aspect of the composition that is arresting, such as a striking sunset. I think this is a particular problem with the first photo, where the surroundings do not really add to the image.

You may be able to crop in closer, but you then may have a problem with the quality of the resulting image.

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

I don't think they will get accepted. First one is too far away and the second is too dark.

Staffan


User currently offlineElcableguy77 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 523 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Wow. Three responses within 20 minutes.
Well, I did ask for honest opinions, and I certainly got them. The US Air Express CRJ, I thought it looked fine on my screen, but then again, I do have my brightness up a bit. After setting the screen to default mode, I saw exactly what you guys saw: It's to friggin' dark.
As for the Independence CRJ, I'll take that criticism, too. I did have a marvelous side-on shot, yet when I downloaded them I noticed I cut about the first foot or so of the nose cone off. Oh, well.
I do appreciate the criticisms. Hearing what you have to say gets me pointed in the right direction and motivate me that much more to take better photos, as I would one day love to have photos on here that make someone go, "Wow."
Thanks again for all the input, and keep it coming.
-Gavin



Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Qantas077,

Try to be a little more constructive. Gavin has asked for help and while you are right that his photos could be much improved, you made your point in a pretty rude way.

Gavin,

It takes a very long time to get great results like the Tim de Groots among us. You have a fairly good camera and I would expect that with practice you will be able to get acceptable results for this site with it.

The main two pointers I have to give are this: fill the frame and shoot in good light. If you fill the frame, you do not have to crop out large areas of sky, decreasing the effective size of your image sensor. And, shoot with the sun at your back, preferably with the side of the aircraft you are photographing as well lit as possible. The best time for this is the afternoon, when the sun is not directly overhead but is not yet too low on the horizon.

Good luck and keep shooting!

A346Dude



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9603 posts, RR: 69
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2211 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Speaking of Tim de Groot I screened one of his pictures this evening, it was such a nice shot. Nothing spectacular in the "normal" sense, but the angle and light were perfect. What a dick Big grin

Gavin, you need to get closer to the action (either thru zoom or just being closer) to be in with a shout. Have a look at some of the shots that the site has of the reg numbers you snapped to get a feel.


User currently offlineElcableguy77 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 523 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

I was looking at getting a 1.5 teleconverter for my G1, so I can zoom in closer. Would it be worth the $90 or so to get it?
Again, I do appreciate the encouragement and criticism.
-Gavin



Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9603 posts, RR: 69
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2201 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I am not familiar with your rig, but you might want to head over to dpreview.com and see if there is a forum for your equipment, if so there will be a ton of advice and technique to be had...

User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Gavin,

I was originally thinking you were using the 5MP G5. Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis, mostly unique shots such as rare aircraft.

So, you will probably eventually want to consider a new camera. Until that time, however, you could consider the teleconverter. It will probably affect image quality negatively, but I wouldn't expect it to be overly significant.

Basically, what I'm saying is if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and you think you will get good use out of it, buy a digital SLR. I would recommend, however, that you learn to master the camera you have now first, and gain a basic understanding of photography including the affect of aperture and ISO speed, among other things.

[Edited 2005-03-03 02:40:17]


You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineAviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2155 times:

Hey Gavin,
I have used a Powershot G2 which is closely related to your camera. I first purchased a Tiffen teleconverter (College student budget) for use with it, and then later I purchased the Canon TC-DC-58 teleconverter. If you are unable to get closer to the action, I definitely recommend the Canon glass. The 2x of the Tiffen or similar lenses will infact get you closer, but the quality will be lower and there is also some vignetting with it too.

You have a perfectly capable camera for getting your photos online. In my opinion, it is just a little tougher to get something with top quality. Plus, it will make you a better photographer mastering the camera. Any questions or comments, drop a line and I will do my best to help. Keep shooting.

-TJ


User currently offlineDaren3006 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

Qantas077,

I would assume that every photo you have submitted has been accepted. You were never a novice photographer. You must have started out as an expert. Damn...wish I could have done that.

I usually try to keep this kind of comment to myself but I can't believe your post.

Daren


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

here we have the idiot patrol, i mean seriously, why would you seriously start a thread about the first photo? christ, just look in the database and that'll tell you that your not even close to heading into the acceptance que. a little bit of common sense goes a long way, the photographer asked for our opinions, why shit around with him?

some of you are probably to gutless to tell him that they are bad shots, i'm not and i don't get every shot accepted, but its not my photos in question here. if the photographer can't tell the first shot is way to far and bad distance and the second to dark then somethings very wrong...

[Edited 2005-03-03 06:12:30]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2091 times:
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Gavin

Quoting A346Dude (reply 9):
Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis

This does not really matter.. the 3.3MP point is moot, the largest pictures accepted here are roughly equiv. to a 1.7MP camera and many equiv to a 1MP or smaller. having said that your equipment does limit you a bit.. but that can be a good thing. It forces you to a/get in closer b/concentrate on your technique.
Many of the greatest photos ever taken.. Aviation related or not! were taken with equipment much inferior to the all singing all dancing, multi MP DSLRs and their stabilised autofocus lenses.
The 3.3MP does limit the margin for error in composition but then that also forces you to learn those skills..
Keep trying
Chris



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Gavin,

You will find that this site is very strict and that most of the regular photographers here are professionals. Listen to them. I have and my pictures have gotten better. Your pictures will be rejected and all the reasons you have read here are true. Dark, Object too far away etc. One thing I learned is to buy good equipment, it is costly but there is no other way, ask the pros here and just keep snapping! Go to the airport every chance you get. Go to all Angles and just practice. You better invest in a good tele lens too. At least a 200MM.

Keep snapping!


User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting Qantas077 (reply 12):
some of you are probably to gutless


Being gutless has nothing to do with it. With an attitude like that you'd be better off keeping your opinions to yourself. The forum is here to help people, regardless of their ability. You would do well to remember that, as you maybe seeking advise here yourself at some point.


User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1664 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2049 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

The first two responses to Gavin's reasonable request for help are models of what not to do and how to help.
Qantas077 response is derisory and unhelpful, that of Psych a perfect, tactful response. If the Qantas response was the only one, I would not expect to see Gavin back.
I find it offensive to be described as being gutless to want to be polite, to not deliberately upset someone. I have judged photographic competitions face to face with the photographers and always tried to find something good to say, even for dreadful photographs.
Evidently Gavin has a long way to go, but, come, on, let's help people not simply put them down..
Willo.... a perfect response
Would Qantas077 have made a response like that face to face ?
I doubt it, but the keyboard makes it easier doesn't it ?
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

You may as well ignore responses from individuals like Qantas077. For whatever reason he seems to need to insult. I told Gavin his pictures were poor and would be rejected without insulting him. Why people have to do this is beyond me. Anyway Kenko makes a good TC, it's pricey but worth it.

User currently onlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1363 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting A346Dude (reply 9):
Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis, mostly unique shots such as rare aircraft.


Hmm, there are a lot of D30 users on here that get shots accepted on a more than infrequent basis. Myself included.

If you know how to use any camera you can do anything you want.


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

hey, i'm not the one asking what everyone else thinks, he asked so i told him and why do you want me to pretty up my reply, ask yourself this, if your a screener or a viewer of this site would you find those photos good on the eye? i don't think so, i'm actually suprised the author even started this thread at all, let alone submitted the photos.

simple way to workout what your photos are comparable to is to search the database for the same plane, i doubt you'll see any shots of them in that quality..

he asked, i told him straight out, simple as that...to be perfectly honest i'm suprised they are still in the upload que, i'd have thought the negative comments would've said enough.

[Edited 2005-03-03 10:40:50]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Im not even going to comment.... Im just to gutless !!!


Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1664 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Qantas077
It ain't what you said......I actually agree with that, sorry Gavin !
Just the way you said it.
Prettying it up is what it's about sometimes.
Just read what Psych wrote. He also said they were not up to scratch but in a way that would upset no-one.
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1995 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Qantas077 (reply 19):
he asked, i told him straight out, simple as that...


I'm not sure that's true, Qantas077 - you told him rudely.

I was typing my response to Gavin's question just as I was off to bed, and I had hoped to be the first response. I was a bit sad when I saw that your reply had got in before mine. I don't dispute the points you are making - you are right that we should all be familiar with photos in the database and develop an idea about what the standards for acceptance are. One way for a relative newcomer to do that is to come on to this Forum and ask advice from more experienced photographers. I have sought advice here more than a couple of times and would always want straight feedback, that I could then reflect on. But you don't need to belittle to give honest feedback. I am sure Gavin would not have posted his thread if he thought the photos didn't have a hope.

Even if he had realised that they were not up to standard - as a fellow contributor recently did in a thread asking for advice - I don't see what's wrong with asking for advice and suggestions. I would take it as read that photographers would treat each other respectfully - whatever their standard.

Mick - thanks for that feedback.

Paul


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

From my point of view:
1.) Too dark and too far away.
2.) Too dark, too far left and low in the frame, too far away and off angle.

If you try to crop those photo in a way that the plane fills the frame they wont get in either i am afraid because then they will become badquality.



-
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (reply 18):
Hmm, there are a lot of D30 users on here that get shots accepted on a more than infrequent basis. Myself included.

If you know how to use any camera you can do anything you want.


Ryan,

I agree completely, in fact I myself use a D30. And before that I sneaked a few photos taken with my 2MP P&S past the screeners.

The point i was trying to make is that it will be hard to get shots that were taken with a 3MP P&S on this site. Not impossible, just hard.



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
25 Post contains images Fergulmcc : Gavin Its very important to have your screen calibrated correctly. This may have helped you initially and able to see the darkness of your shots. If y
26 Post contains images Elcableguy77 : Fergul: Not as yet, my friend. I kinda need it to access this site and such. Again, I appreciate all the advice and criticisms. Now, all I need is to
27 Post contains images Fergulmcc : No Problem Gavin The two shots would be done for bad distance, no questions asked. You really need to get the frame filled with as much aircraft as po
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