Psych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 2968 posts, RR: 60 Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1329 times:
I am somewhat confused here as to what the correct course of action is here - a crew comment would be gratefully received, as well as any other thoughts.
I have just uploaded a photo of TF-AMC - and all-white cargo 747 owned by Air Atlanta Icelandic (well, leased by them anyway, as far as I can see). My understanding of the rules here are clarified by Rule number 4 in the Help section for Airline/Operator:
Quote: 4. Airline aircraft which are untitled will be listed as "Untitled" with the airline name between brackets, like "Untitled (TMA - Trans Mediterranean Airlines)", or "Untitled (America West Express (Mesa Airlines))".
However, I am aware that when uploading we now have to use the Auto Complete function. For this aircraft this comes up with 'Air Atlanta' - not Air Atlanta Icelandic, Untitled (Air Atlanta) etc etc. To make matters more complicated this aircraft was operating for Cathay Pacific Cargo . There are, in fact, only 2 other photos of this aircraft in the database - both all white.
Am I correct in assuming that now we must go with the Auto Complete? If so, then the previous rule about untitled aircraft needing to be referred to as 'Untitled' is being challenged here. The dilemma is - go with what the Auto Complete comes up with and you appear to be flouting the rules; put what the rules suggest and you are going against the Auto Complete function, which also now is going against the rules.
Any thoughts/comments? (My apologies if I have missed a previous discussion about this issue.)
Sulman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2028 posts, RR: 35 Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1323 times:
I'd approach it two ways. I'd use the autocomplete (which keeps the screening team happy) and I'd also drop the DB editors a line letting them know. I think they've got quite a job on at the moment with cleaning up the variations and duplications and appreciate the help.
Psych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 2968 posts, RR: 60 Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1268 times:
In the absence of a flood of responses to this thread I have decided that the best option here is to go with what, to me, is correct according to the upload rules.
As such, despite what the Auto Complete says, I am uploading this all white 747 as "Untitled (Air Atlanta Icelandic)". This is the data I recently used for TF-AME, and that appeared to be acceptable.
I still think this apparent anomaly is worth clarifying, as I know the database editors are hard at work tackling issues for the Auto Complete function. In an attempt to get things right I have emailed the database editors and have also put a note to the screeners explaining the situation. Just now hoping it won't be rejected for some other reason .
But - if I have done the wrong thing always happy to be told .
Fergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 54 Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1238 times:
I had the same situation with another aircraft, N727UW - US Airways. This aircraft is no longer with them and there is no drop down menu for Untitled (US Airways). The auto complete only gives you US Airways, but it is clear from the photo that it no longer operates with them. I was told to upload it as Untitled and then to fill in below US Airways.
Jaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1233 times:
Paul, I've just replied to your email.
For the benefit of everyone else, the Auto Complete feature must always be used when you have the registration. Too many people make up their own aircraft/airline versions and enter CNs in the wrong format.
If you think the Auto Complete feature brings up an incorrect entry, please let us know by submitting a correction or sending us an email. Currently, it is possible to edit the info that Auto Complete brings up - if a BY aircraft changed from having the Britannia titles to having the Thomsonfly titles, you'd have to choose the Thomsonfly entry because you could end up with a badinfo rejection. So if you have a problem similar to Paul's, upload with what you think is right (check the rules), and let us know so that we can fix any dodgy entries.
Psych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 2968 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1232 times:
Thanks very much to Tom (Jaspike) for providing some further clarification on this matter - "Untitled (Air Atlanta Icelandic)" is correct and this is an example of the Auto Complete still requiring further updating.
Fergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 54 Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Can I ask what do I do in my case then as N727UW is currently being changed over to Germanwings. Do I write Untitled under US Airways drop down menu or do I select Untitled and then write US Airways in the box below.
PS What is the database editors e-mail address? I now its something simple!
DC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1405 posts, RR: 16 Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1202 times:
I've just looked in the list of options for Air Atlanta and there are two. "Air Atlanta" and "Air Atlanta Icelandic".
Without wanting to sound sad, I think it should be "Air Atlanta Icelandic" and "Air Atlanta Europe".
The point I'm trying to make is, why should the auto-complete function be always used when the information there isn't always correct. I'm not wanting to sound arsy about this but I think that before being so rigid, the 'standardisation' should be more comprehensive and accurate.
There are other examples I have come across, where multiple aircraft types are given.
Jaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1184 times:
Fergul: the aircraft is in US Airways colours with no titles?
Tim: it's very hard to make the database perfect. Photographers create the options on the upload page, which you have to choose from, and we have to correct.
For there to be less options on the upload page, us editors would have to work even harder, and the screeners would have to reject more for badinfo - which I'm sure people wouldn't be happy with.
We're doing as much as we can to reduce the options - I'm trying to keep almost every UK airline standardised, but with 770,000 photos in the database and some photographers still not using the Auto Complete feature, it isn't going to happen overnight.
Invader From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 324 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1165 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
I'll answer for Tom the question on N727UW:
What you always have to establish first is: does the aircraft carry titles? When an aircraft has no titles, it will always be listed as "Untitled" or something starting with "Untitled". In your case, as the aircraft doesn't seem to have US Airways or Germanwings titles, you would use "Untitled".
Next, for an "Untitled" aircraft, you establish if the aircraft is operated by an airline / charter company or not. If it is a corporate or private aircraft, the titles will be only "Untitled" without adding anything. If the aircraft is airline operated or owned, you add that company between brackets (for the precise details, see the airline Help item). In your case, you have thus to add something following "Untitled".
Untitled aircraft that are in the process of being transferred from one company to another are a bit of a grey area, but in general, when it is still carrying the registration of the previous owner, then use the name of the previous owner. The colour scheme is not so important in this respect. In your case, it is still carrying the reg of US Airways (and its colour scheme), so then it should be listed as "Untitled (US Airways)". If it would have had a German reg, even with the US Airways colour scheme, it should be listed as "Untitled (Germanwings)".
Fergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 54 Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1155 times:
Peter and Tom
Thankyou for your help, this the aircraft in question, N727UW
I use the auto complete to get all the other info like the construction number, and then just changed US Airways to Untitled in the drop down menu and then in the box below that filled in US Airways. I hope I did right. I also put a note to the screeners.
DC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1405 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1149 times:
I appreciate it's no mean feat. It's just that in some circumstances, when using auto-complete, as with the Air Atlanta example, the correct information isn't present to chose from, but at the same time it is very much frowned upon to input info. of your own accord.
In these instances, would it be acceptable to insert the data manually?
What would the end result of doing this be, other than creating another option in the auto-complete function for uploaders to chose from?
Jaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1140 times:
Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 14): In these instances, would it be acceptable to insert the data manually?
Paul's case (above) is a good example of where you can add your own data - if the data that the Auto Complete function shows is incorrect for your photo, and the data you want to use is correct, then by all means use your data.
Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 14): What would the end result of doing this be, other than creating another option in the auto-complete function for uploaders to chose from?
The end result would (hopefully) be a correct entry in the database. But if you add a new entry because there are photos with wrong info, please let us know so that we can correct any incorrect options - just submit a correction and in the "comment to editor" field just ask for the aircraft (or airline, CN..) fields to be tidied up.
Jan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1113 times:
Almost on topic; in the Airline help it says
4. Airline aircraft which are untitled will be listed as "Untitled" with the airline name between brackets, like "Untitled (TMA - Trans Mediterranean Airlines)", or "Untitled (America West Express (Mesa Airlines))".
How come so many pix are uploaded with airline names even tho they carry none? Should be Untitled, no?
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