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My Stolen Photo From Flight Sim Site  
User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7907 times:

I recently started a message board on my site at http://nycaviation.com/forum/.

A member of my site posted a small photo and it looked very familar. I talked with him and he said he got it from vatsimindicators.com, that they give these out to their flightsim pilots.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Derner Jr.



And here is the page on the vatsim site:

http://www.vatsimindicators.net/ind.pmd/lib/indicator?id=942

Let's do a closer 500-pixel compare:





I'm pretty angry. I'm contacting the guy and demanding payment for the "get-off-easy" price of $200.

There are a LOT of photos on this site, and I urge you all to have a glance and see if any of your photos were taken as well.

Angered,

-Phil


Phil Derner Jr.
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7888 times:

looks to me that the guy you should be after is
Paul Biderman


User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2027 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7886 times:
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Phil,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I personally didn't see any of my photos, but saw several other peoples photos, including the above mentioned WN 737 shot.

Definately worth checking out...

-Charlie


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

is this the same one as well?



User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Thank you for linking that site, just had a look through and found another Anet photo ( sent email to the owner already ).


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Photo © Juan Pablo Marini



Go and get the money they owe you!
Good luck,

Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7867 times:

Its a non-profit site, just make them take it down.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7823 times:





























There are more.


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

phil... we need to talk. call me, we'll talk about rectifying this situation.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

So um.... who wants to be the one to break this to American Airlines?



www.aa.com


User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7803 times:



User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7800 times:



User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7796 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 8):
So um.... who wants to be the one to break this to American Airlines?



www.aa.com

Who wants to be the one to break this one to Continental Airlines?


www.continental.com

Its on the top right corner of the web page.


User currently offlineMuchswatch From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

OMG, I see my photo.  hissyfit 



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Photo © Muchswatch



What should I do guys?  melting 


Jay



CapitalOne & Direct Energy Sux
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

Quoting Muchswatch (Reply 12):
What should I do guys?

Tell Continental and AA about the photos stolen off their own sites  Wink Big grin


User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2027 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7765 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

CO and AA make those images publicly available for use I believe... I might be wrong though...

-Charlie


User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5516 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7760 times:

Though if you must feel like you need to take immediate action, then do so. I say a little warning is more than enough, as they're just making signatures, not selling anything. Let's not get paranoid here.

[Edited 2005-04-24 06:17:20]

User currently offlineXpfg From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 633 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7740 times:

I agree with the wanting to be asked before used part...but payment for these sigs is a little awkward at the least. For those of you that don't know, VATSIM and the likes make no money at all.

I understand the frustration, but I think this is the first time I'm going to have to agree with a little "simmer down" the excitement here and just give fair warning...nothing extremely harsh, but gets the point across.

To all of you, I do respect you all...just throwing in my $0.02.


User currently offlineAA173HEAVY From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

I wouldn't push the issue all up in the airlines faces if I were you guys. See, here's the thing, If Southwest,or AA, or COA find out people are making money off of copyright claims on photos of their planes,their paint scheme design,(which, by the way, they have THE copyright on), then they may play the big "hey you can't do that!" card. Just the same if you were to sell photos of a famous rock band that you took with your equipment at a concert. How long do you think it would be before their lawyers contacted you. The whole fact that some people sell their photos off the site has worried me anyway. If the major airlines wanted to, they could either demand royalties from all sales of photos of their planes, or, worse yet, demand all photos of their equipment pulled from any sight that they don't control. Trust me, I know. As others have said, they are non profit orgs anyway. The original poster even said "giving out" with regard to the sigs.

Take this with a big ol' grain of salt guys, it's just my two cents and I think you all are outstanding photographers and I don't want to see our hobby reduced to turnip squeezing.

Randy

[Edited 2005-04-24 08:23:20]

[Edited 2005-04-24 08:23:37]


Insert some famous meaningful quote here
User currently offlineUnited737522 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Tim Samples had his taken too:


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Photo © Tim Samples



http://www.vatsimindicators.net/ind.pmd/lib/indicator?id=1504


User currently offlineUnited737522 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7684 times:

I don't think UA would appreciate this too much:
http://www.united.com/
http://www.vatsimindicators.net/ind.pmd/lib/indicator?id=825


User currently offlineXpfg From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 633 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7663 times:

Quoting United737522 (Reply 19):
I don't think UA would appreciate this too much:
http://www.united.com/
http://www.vatsimindicators.net/ind....d=825

I'd like to bring to your attention that United is a big player in the flight sim community, and I'm sure has approved this sig/has no issues with it, as they are also a big player in this particular online community. Just to prove this fact, part of their REAL site (a subdomain) is for FS inparticular!

Infact, they offer incentives (like free flights in real world) to outstanding "virtual" pilots.

[Edited 2005-04-24 09:11:30]

User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7626 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 5):
Its a non-profit site, just make them take it down.

No.



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

If they had asked, I would have given it to them for free probably.

But they were stolen. It's just something that I have no tolerance for. ANd look how large a scale their stealing is.

It doesn't take much to send a short message asking for usage.

-Phil



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7584 times:

Quoting AA173HEAVY (Reply 17):
If the major airlines wanted to, they could either demand royalties from all sales of photos of their planes, or, worse yet, demand all photos of their equipment pulled from any sight that they don't control.

They can not actually! If I do take photos from a public place I do own the copyright, no matter if it's their aircraft sporting their titles! Many more shooters here will tell you so!

Airlines do not own the copyright of photos any photographer took while standing somewhere in approach snapping away!



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineRyangooner From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 969 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7575 times:

Hey Phil

Get down there and give them a good ol fashioned wrestle!

Get every little last cent you can out of them, take them to the cleaners, looks like a very north american site, they'll be taking my pics soon once this damn Q gets screened!

Ryan



ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
25 Continental : Then what are you going to do? Charge them $100s to use it? True, they should have definitely asked for permission, but then again, they're just maki
26 Xpfg : Agree.
27 IslipWN : My friend told me that he sent an email to CO and AA about this. He said that CO sent it to some really important person. I don't see what the big dea
28 A346Dude : I'm gonna have to agree as well. Put yourself in their place: you are going to be asked to shell out a fairly large sum of money for a little signatur
29 Atomother : Wow, according to their website, it is not their fault and all we can do is spend a bunch of time getting them to remove the "stolen" photo and that w
30 Xpfg : Some people don't have such money. I'm not sticking up for either side, as I do have my PPL, but it's just a simple fact. Ever heard of GPS...or more
31 UA777222 : Correct me if I'm wrong but before an a/c can even start into production its built through computers. If you ever take a look in the back of a test a
32 BigPhilNYC : I think most photographers would have no problem doing it for free, with maybe photo credit. I get emails all the time from people who only want to e
33 Killjoy : What exactly did you expect? Do you think it would be alright to sue airliners.net if someone decided to post uuencoded MP3's here?
34 F9Widebody : And alot of the people who caused us our trouble in DEN.....were from AvSim.
35 Karlok : Phil, Yes, ofcourse maybe they could send you an email to ask. But in my opinion, it's just a small picture for signature use on forums. And, for exam
36 Post contains images DLKAPA : Actually you're wrong. In America, if you are on public land and you take a photograph, you hold the copyright to that photograph. The airlines could
37 BigPhilNYC : That is a difference from editing my photo and distributing it out to many people as though it's your own creation and using my photo as an informati
38 Dazed767 : Flyer732 is right, they are not making money from this. True it was wrong of them to remove the copyright bar and alter the photo, but in the end all
39 Post contains images A346Dude : Phil, I highly respect you and your work. I feel compelled, however to point something out. You have used someone else's property without first askin
40 DLKAPA : Yeah technically if you're tresspassing when you take the photo, you don't hold the copyright.
41 Post contains images Continental : Thanks for the laugh. And what's wrong with FS? I think it's fun, and I also have my PPL. Though real flying is much better, it is considerably more
42 BigPhilNYC : Construction sites and rocky shorelines. Quick changing tides, garbage everywhere, old weird wooden structures, swampy mudd, etc., right here on New Y
43 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Umm explain to me how did he use Southwest's property? If pictures are taking in public places its perfectly legal to take them and use them. Now if
45 Post contains links Cicaliskan : Turkish Charter companies use our photos without permission everytime.I talk this problem with this companies.But most of them are still using the pho
46 Post contains images INNflight : Wow, thank you for pointing that out Irfan!!! They're to sue for sure...at least I guess Pegasus Airlines can be classified as a profit-making organis
47 BigPhilNYC : Some of you are paying too much attention and taking too literally my tresspassing comment.
48 Atomother : Looks like I touched a nerve with the flight simmers out there... Good! If someone was making copies of those MP3s and selling them or altering them
49 Clickhappy : My opinions in this matter won't be very popular, but I feel the need to wade in. Who cares if some airplane geeks are using small versions of your ph
50 Post contains images MauriceB : maybe i dissagree that they have to charge, but since they didn't asked permision for using the photos... i think they should be warned, and be stalke
51 Post contains links Klgaviation : http://www.vatsimindicators.net/ind.pmd/help/copyrightviolations Chris
52 Atomother : I am not really that upset the way the website above used my photo. Like Royal said, it is just some online name badge. I would rather people not take
53 Burnsie28 : For those of you who have not checked websites out, a couple things to remember. As long as the state that the photo is yours ANYWHERE on the website
54 Staffan : No they can't. Staffan
55 Tommy Mogren : ABSOLUTELY NOT! Tommy Mogren
56 Post contains links MattRB : No.. had you bothered to read the description of that indicator, you would've noted that permission had been granted by the photographers of those tw
57 BigPhilNYC : Awesome. I jsut received the following email: Phil, You're a freakin' idiot. Despite what you think of yourself, you and your photos aren't gold. I ca
58 NIKV69 : Phil, Who is this Matt character? I think he and many of you are missing the point. Do you all understand the concept of copyrights. Any picture that
59 Post contains images LHSebi : Hahahahahahaha That is one funny guy... I am consistently amused at how people say that "your photos are not gold", but yet they never stop using them
60 Jwenting : AA for certain and probably CO too gave official permission. Many VAs go to the trouble of getting permission to use official artwork and names and d
61 BigPhilNYC : Yeah, it's really not about my photos being god or not, becuase ask anyone that knows me, I'm not a huge fan of my own work. However, I am very prote
62 Post contains images NIKV69 : Phil, The quality of the work has nothing to do with a fact that once a photo is copyrighted it can not be used without permission. You all here are l
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