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Banging My Head Against A Brick Wall  
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

Hi everyone,

This last couple of days I've become quite disillutioned with the whole aviation photography business.

Three things have caused this: 1) The never ending wobbly line saga that I'm sure you're all fed up of hearing, 2) Being harassed by people for going about my hobby with no lawful reason for them to do so. 3) My photos seem to have a greyish cast to them.

I'll start with the first. I had the day off work on Weds and went into PC World in Sheffield and tried out a bit of editing, specifically resizing, on a number of new, high spec PCs and still got the same "wobbly" effect as I'm now getting on my laptop that I'm using to do my editing at present. What's going on? I cannot believe that no-one else in the world but me is having this problem. Basically, for those who aren't bored of reading my previous threads, upon resizing to either 1024 or 1200 wide, I get a kind of "wobbly" effect on straight lines that are at about 45 degrees. Myself and my friend Paul Markman (Psych) have done quite a bit of research into this and there appears to be no reason why. His machine works perfectly normally.

I'm also fed up with being treated like a criminal for being an aviation photographer. I've voiced this in numerous threads in recent months, but on Sunday I was (I now understand) wrongly removed from a spot at EMA, by police, who basically were acting beyond themselves. Not a big issue in itself, but it's all the letter writing to complain and hassle it causes I could do without.

Thirdly, with my 300D I have been shooting in 'Parameter2' recently, as it reduces the amount of "in camera" sharpening, which seemed to be causing me problems. The problem now is that I'm convinced with my recent uploads that they need some more blue adding during the editing process, as some seem to have a greyish cast to them. Here's one example I took on a sunny morning, when I'm sure the sky was more blue;


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Goodwin



Any advice on the editing or on the "wobbly" issue would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Tim.


Obviously missing something....
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1690 times:
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The wobbly lines are caused by heathaze. There's no solution to this problem, but you can avoid it by not shooting during midday when the sun is at it's strongest.

The color on the 757 shot looks fine. The grey cast you're refering to is probably the effect of using a telelens. Zooming in on the lower part of the sky (where the smog is) can make the sky look less blue than you thought it was that day.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Thread starter):
Any advice on the editing or on the "wobbly" issue would be greatly appreciated.

If you haven't already you could experiment shooting RAW to see if you have the same problems or not.

 twocents 

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 1):
The wobbly lines are caused by heathaze. There's no solution to this problem, but you can avoid it by not shooting during midday when the sun is at it's strongest.

This is why I'm saying I feel as though I'm banging my head against a brick wall Tim. The "wobblies" aren't there on the originals, and when Psych resizes them, or other people who have helped out in the past, they can't recreate the problem. I did find a recent shot in the DB the other day that seems to have the same effect, but no-one seems to know anything about it.

Quoting Javibi (Reply 2):
If you haven't already you could experiment shooting RAW to see if you have the same problems or not.

I did have a go in RAW a few weeks back and got the same problems. It seems to be a problem with how Photoshop resizes on certain computers. I have tried different processors, graphics cards and the lot, and I'm just about all out of ideas  Sad

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineGPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 831 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1580 times:
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Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 3):
The "wobblies" aren't there on the originals, and when Psych resizes them, or other people who have helped out in the past

Then it must be the way your editing software is set up. What are you using to edit?

Best regards,

Jim



Erm, is this thing on?
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3052 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1571 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

To add a note of support here for Tim on the editing front, he and I were both sitting next to each other on one occasion, his laptop next to my PC. We were editing copies of the same file (I recall one was the 757 shot above), in exactly the same way, and his edit produced these wobbly lines and mine was fine. By the look on Tim's face you would have thought he had just realised he was possessed.

I think it is very interesting (so long as you are not the 'victim') to try to think about what is going on here. Before this situation it would have been easy to think that the effect was caused by external factors - such as in-camera phenomena, or weather, as Tim de Groot alludes to - or internal ones such as the potential for Tim to be obsessing about trivia. But this is a very real effect. I recall on one occasion we seemed to be able to avoid the problem by cropping a smaller (or was it bigger - I can't recall now) proportion of the original image. But I can confirm Tim's assessment that this effect has nothing to do with the original file, or the software he is using. It occurs in Tim's process of resizing.

On the issue of parameters used in-camera - though I cannot place the review now, I recall once reading about the difference in parameter settings for the 300D, and mention was made about the appearance of colour saturation at both settings. I believe that colour saturation gets a bit of a boost in Parameter 1, and is zero in Parameter 2 - just as in sharpening - so I think it may be an idea to photograph the same scene and switch parameters, to see what the effect is there. I am sure that may be an issue there.

Good luck Tim - stick with it.

Paul


User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2739 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Tim,

Are you resizing in steps? This may be where you are resizing straight from 3000 pixels to 1200 pixels.

Simon.



Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 973 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 3):
The "wobblies" aren't there on the originals, and when Psych resizes them, or other people who have helped out in the past, they can't recreate the problem.

Hi Tim, an outside chance but have you tried reloading your imaging software or trying another brand. It is unlikely but your copy could be corrupted. Also check for viruses as some have been know to modify jpeg images. Long shots I know but might save you damaging more walls  Silly

Jid



G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Tim,

The colour of the sky is partly down to the summer. With this hot, dry and sunny weather we have had for a while you will find any shots of aircraft on the ground even on a sunny day will produce a kind of 'boring' sky unless you shoot early or late.

Wait until the autumn/winter when we get a little rain to clear the air and the temps lower then you will get more of a feeling of blue sky.

The resizing issue I can't really help with, all I can say is very ocassionally say one time every 30 or so I get a similar problem so I just resize to a different size (say down to 1100 as opposed to my usual 1000) and this sorts the problem for me, but luckily this rarely happens to me.

As for being hassled by the authorities, don't let this put you off! This is always an issue just more so of late due to events.

Don't be put off, I understand how frustrating it must be but stick at it

Cheers

Ben Pritchard


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1491 times:

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I still don't get it though  Smile

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 4):
Then it must be the way your editing software is set up. What are you using to edit?

I wondered about that actually. If for some reason there is some flaw in the way the software is installed. I have both Elements 2 and Photoshop 7 and both cause the same problem. Both were just installed using the "standard" settings that the computer selects automatically. I have tried another editing program and I don't get the wobbly problem, so I know it's something to do with Photoshop.



Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 6):
Are you resizing in steps? This may be where you are resizing straight from 3000 pixels to 1200 pixels.

I'm not sure I understand. I crop and resize in one using the crop tool. Even if I crop first and then resize I still get the problem.

Quoting Jid (Reply 7):
Hi Tim, an outside chance but have you tried reloading your imaging software or trying another brand. It is unlikely but your copy could be corrupted.

I wondered about that Jid, but it does it on both Elements and 7.

As for the colours not being right, I just noticed that all of my shots in the DB taken on sunny days have grey skies. I know it can have that look at times. It was when I came to edit some shots from Sunday, when there was some blue sky at times, the sky looked dull. Not wanting to mess around for hours, I tried the 'Autocolours' option in Photoshop, and it looked a lot more realistic.

Regards,

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Tim, could you show us a file that has those "wobblies"?  Confused

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Quoting Javibi (Reply 10):
Tim, could you show us a file that has those "wobblies"?

I'll get one uploaded somewhere and post a link to it when I get home this evening.

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1424 times:

I think I may be having a similar issue - I took a photo of an Air Europa 737 on approach at ACE, and in full size original it gives no indication of jagged lines. When resized to 1024, the fuselage goes jagged even before any sharpening is applied. I'm going to try progressive resizing as Airplanepics suggested - else give it up to heat haze, which affected all but one of my ACE shots!


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlinePurpleheepster From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

Quoting LGW (Reply 8):



Quoting DC10Tim (Thread starter):
I'm convinced with my recent uploads that they need some more blue adding during the editing process, as some seem to have a greyish cast

I also use the 300D in "parameter 2" and have found it to tend to have a yellow colour balance. I notice it most in overcast conditions. I change colour balance by about +5 blue and -2 red.

To darken the sky you could try selecting it using the magic wand and using levels.


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1321 times:

Quoting Purpleheepster (Reply 13):
I also use the 300D in "parameter 2" and have found it to tend to have a yellow colour balance. I notice it most in overcast conditions. I change colour balance by about +5 blue and -2 red.

That's interesting. I'm sure that some of my shots need a little more blue.


Here's a link to a photo I've quickly resized to 1200 wide. A little later than promised, but I've been out drowning my sorrows  Smile

http://timgoodwin.myphotoalbum.com/v...1&set_albumName=album09&id=easy737

Look along the leading edge of the tail and also above the cockpit and the top of the nose. They appear to be "wobbly". It's definitely not heat haze as it isn't there on the original.

Regards,

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1311 times:

Wow, I didn't think I would see it, but it is there. Does this occur with any other lens? What about a crop of the original? Can you show us that for comparison?

User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

Jeff,

It occurs with all my lenses. Here's a crop of the tail at the original size:

http://timgoodwin.myphotoalbum.com/v...e=album11&id=originalsizetail_copy

Interestingly, when cropping to 1200x800, if an area of less then 50% of the total area of the canvas is selected, the problem doesn't occur.

http://timgoodwin.myphotoalbum.com/v..._albumName=album10&id=easytailcrop

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
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