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Any Way To Work The Motive Differently On This One  
User currently offlineMarkJBeckwith From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 156 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Title says it all;

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...051214_cgtaq-021205-yqu-mjb-v3.jpg

Mark.


One day, I might be good at this...
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6153 times:

More prop, or no prop. The way it is now, the little lump on the left is more of a distraction than an addition to this photo.

Ed


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

Quoting MarkJBeckwith (Thread starter):
Any Way To Work The Motive Differently On This One

Motive should be figured out before you raise the camera to your eye.


User currently offlineMarkJBeckwith From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 1):
More prop, or no prop. The way it is now, the little lump on the left is more of a distraction than an addition to this photo.

Ed

Okay, thanks Ed.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
Motive should be figured out before you raise the camera to your eye.

Sorry, forgot about you Jeff, I should have spelled out the question very clearly for you, you don't read sub-text very well. Try this;

Any Way To Work The Motive Differently On This One... for ANet acceptance?

Better?



One day, I might be good at this...
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
Motive should be figured out before you raise the camera to your eye.

Give me a break
 Yeah sure


User currently offlineChrisH From Sweden, joined Jul 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
Motive should be figured out before you raise the camera to your eye.

The eleventh commandment finally revealed.



what seems to be the officer, problem?
User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 5):
The eleventh commandment finally revealed.

lol brilliant


User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6092 times:

Jeff is on form!!!!!!!!! (At least he's good for a laugh!!).


EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineAnder From Spain, joined Jan 2005, 367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6089 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 7):
Jeff is on form!!!!!!!!! (At least he's good for a laugh!!).

He is. But this time also he is right.



Born to tri.
User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Hey Ander, I'm not saying he is or he isn't. All I'm saying is whenever the guy posts, you can bet it's gonna be controversial or funny! Personally, I disagree with him on this one. I've been lucky many a time when shooting. Perhaps something's happened as I press the shutter down that came totally unexpected...It doesn't take planning! On the other hand there's been times when I've composed something that I thought would be interesting, then discovered it wasn't that great at all, or something else played a part in it that changed things. I know what Jeff is trying to say albeit it doesn't hold true all the time, far from it.
Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 7):
Jeff is on form!!!!!!!!! (At least he's good for a laugh!!).

Good! You can laugh all you want at me, or with me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.

Quoting MarkJBeckwith (Reply 3):
I should have spelled out the question very clearly for you, you don't read sub-text very well. Try this;

Any Way To Work The Motive Differently On This One... for ANet acceptance?

Mark, I knew exactly what you meant when I first read it. Unfortunately for you, if you work towards Anet standards, you are most likely backing up, as many excellent photographs will never see the light of day here BECAUSE of the standards.

Get the motive right in your mind, then take the photo. Dragging shots like that out in the open looking for ways to get an acceptance won't help your photography at all.

Quoting Spencer (Reply 9):
I know what Jeff is trying to say albeit it doesn't hold true all the time, far from it.

Do you aim at the dart board while playing darts? If so, do you aim to just get on the board and accept what you get? Or do you actually try to hit a certain spot?

Just curious.


User currently offlineMarkJBeckwith From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
Get the motive right in your mind, then take the photo. Dragging shots like that out in the open looking for ways to get an acceptance won't help your photography at all.

Thanks Jeff, though you seem to be confusing my photography hobby with my ANet hobby - not the same thing at all.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.

Thanks for that Jeff; derision becomes you, keep it up, you'll continue to win friends and influence people.



One day, I might be good at this...
User currently offlineJdk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

Found this one to give you a guide line to work on



http://www.airliners.net/open.file/925005/L/

Cheers


User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

Jeff...i love your posts!

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
Quoting Spencer (Reply 7):
Jeff is on form!!!!!!!!! (At least he's good for a laugh!!).

Good! You can laugh all you want at me, or with me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.

thats great.....you cant teach THAT!! its a gift!!

keep it coming Jeff


User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5991 times:

Basically Jeff, everything according to you is and should be considered gospel?!! Get real mate! And what the hell has darts got to do with the price of bacon? If I'm reading you right, then you've never been surprised with results before? Nothing has ever happened that altered the outcome of a shot for you?! Man, that's gotta be boring! So, there's no real need to take a series of shots then either? Because if you've sussed it out beforehand then one shot is all that's required. I've definitely gotta come out with you and your grey card one day Jeff...at least it will be amusing!! Oh and by the way Jeff, we all adhere to the rules of this site mate, so don't try and give it the high and mighty around here please!



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ruben Hofs


A well thought out and thoroughly expected occurrence!!

Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
so don't try and give it the high and mighty around here please!

LOL... and you can?

Don't be stupid all the time, I never said you might not catch something unexpected, I did say plan your shots. Mark's obviously didn't work out to well if he did plan it.

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
And what the hell has darts got to do with the price of bacon?

I figured that analogy would go screaming over your head....

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
If I'm reading you right,

Your not, as usual. It seems you have a hard time doing so.

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
So, there's no real need to take a series of shots then either?

Don't do it often, do you? Why? Hoping to get one right?

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
Basically Jeff, everything according to you is and should be considered gospel?!!

Don't know where you read that, but it works for me!  Smile

Oh, i'm not your "mate" either.  Wink


User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5969 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
Get the motive right in your mind, then take the photo.

Pretentious to say the least. Here's a suggestion for you...

Get a rational thought in your mind, then post a reply.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.

Completely unnecessary
 Sad


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5956 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 16):
Pretentious to say the least.

LOL... hardly. What do you do? Shoot first, figure out what you shot later? I suppose you might get something worthwhile if you shoot enough pictures. Kind of like a shotgun? Not very accurate, but you will probably hit something...

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 16):
Here's a suggestion for you...

Sorry, don't need one. I'm not the one asking for help with that picture..  Wink

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 16):
Get a rational thought in your mind, then post a reply.

O.k. you start first.... Obviously you have to start after that remark.  Smile


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 1):
More prop, or no prop. The way it is now, the little lump on the left is more of a distraction than an addition to this photo.

I think Eduard summed it up perfectly in the first post, without the need for all this. I get the feeling it's turning into something of a witch-hunt. On more than one occasion I've disagreed with Jeff, on various topics, but his help is welcomed when provided and nobody stands to achieve anything by resorting to this.

Regards,

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 18):
I think Eduard summed it up perfectly in the first post

I do too. Honestly, the photo really lacks anything of interest, and what little is there (prop) is just not taking control of the viewer's attention as it should. My comment in reply 2 was nothing more then honest advice, as it appears that very little thought went into it's composition based on what we are used to seeing accepted. I could have wrote half a page on how I feel their pain, loved the idea, wished them "all the best"...blah, blah, blah, but in the end, the image speaks for itself. Just look at....... Cropping isn't going to help it. Why spend time writing elaborate posts blowing smoke up someone's butt? What good does that do? Wouldn't you rather get to the point, learn something, and move on to better things?


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5933 times:

Quoting MarkJBeckwith (Reply 11):
Thanks Jeff, though you seem to be confusing my photography hobby with my ANet hobby - not the same thing at all.

Really? So like, you shoot absolutely brilliant photos then upload your absolute crap? Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying...

Quoting Spencer (Reply 14):
I've definitely gotta come out with you and your grey card one day Jeff...at least it will be amusing!!

The only amusing thing will be how many shots you lose to exposure problems  Wink

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 16):

Get a rational thought in your mind, then post a reply.

How is your response a constructive one? If everybody got down off their pedestals here you'd see that Jeff's first reply is pretty much just him stating the first and most basic rule of photography. There's no trying to crop a photo differently to get a different motive, sometimes you can fudge it a little bit but on a shot like this there's just no way.

< Advice (since some of you need tags) >Next time, do these 2 things. First, make the wing the main focus of the photo. Second, wait until the runway centerline crosses into the frame. If you're in the right spot inside the aircraft, they will line up very well. < /Advice >

And yes, I do pick my seats for a flight based on what kind of photos I want to take from the aircraft.


User currently offlineMarkJBeckwith From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5925 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20):
Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying...

You don't read so well do you?

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20):
First, make the wing the main focus of the photo. Second, wait until the runway centerline crosses into the frame. If you're in the right spot inside the aircraft, they will line up very well.

Thanks for the advice.

Ed answered my question in in reply 1, the rest of this thread is bullshit, including reply 2. I ask a question, which is what I thought this forum was for, and this is what happens? What the f**k else is the forum for? Forgive me for being inexperienced, I'll try harder next time.

Later..



One day, I might be good at this...
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5916 times:

Quoting MarkJBeckwith (Reply 21):
You don't read so well do you?

If you really want to go there I was reading at college level before I got into high school.

Quoting MarkJBeckwith (Reply 21):
I ask a question, which is what I thought this forum was for, and this is what happens?

You asked a question, someone else gave an answer. That's generally how questions work. Sometimes the answer isn't what you expect but you just have to deal with that and if you're smart, you'll use every answer you're given to improve.


User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20):
If everybody got down off their pedestals here you'd see that Jeff's first reply is pretty much just him stating the first and most basic rule of photography.

Sorry, I didn't know that photography had "rules". I just like to go out and take pictures of airplanes.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 22):
Sometimes the answer isn't what you expect

Exactly, for future reference, you can expect that if Jeff is involved the answer will often be unnessecarily harsh and impolite...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.



Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
Dragging shots like that out in the open looking for ways to get an acceptance won't help your photography at all.



Quoting JeffM (Reply 15):
I figured that analogy would go screaming over your head....



Quoting JeffM (Reply 19):
I do too. Honestly, the photo really lacks anything of interest,



Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 13):
Jeff...i love your posts!

Quoting JeffM (Reply 10):
Quoting Spencer (Reply 7):
Jeff is on form!!!!!!!!! (At least he's good for a laugh!!).

Good! You can laugh all you want at me, or with me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. I had a laugh too when I saw that photo.

thats great.....you cant teach THAT!! its a gift!!

keep it coming Jeff

Jeff's commentary is hardly amusing, especially when you are the one he is attacking.


User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

I've read Jeff's posts for years and they are mostly accurate and (funny, when read the right way).
If you don't like his replies and challenge him, you'll most likely wish you hadn't.

Reply 2 doesn't differ much from reply 1. Both offer (brutal) sound advice.

When we write on this forum we need to understand people are writing answers to our written words, not to us. They (often) don't know the person who they are writing to, so it's easy to critisize.

There is a great fellowship amongst Anetters in the real world, but (often) the fellowship ends here (on the forums).

-Pepef-

[Edited 2005-12-16 09:01:29]

25 ChrisH : There's something called "cropping for impact". A slight crop can dramatically change the way you experience an image. We don't know how much MarkJ c
26 Post contains links and images Ryangooner : Is this constructive criticism?, Im not being funny here but i think that the comment is quite out of order... View Large View MediumPhoto © Jef
27 Post contains images JeffM : Wow. I'd say you take things here a little too seriously. I've yet to "attack" anyone. Doubt I ever will. Tell them what I think? Always. Why bother
28 Gary2880 : True. You can speak the truth and be right until you go blue in the face. But if your a twat about it, or stuck up, the chances are people wont take
29 ChrisH : There's no need to be a complete bell end at every opportunity. Yet you try your best. The threadstarter was asking for a bit of advice, not to have
30 Post contains images Willo : Actually, Jeff has been nothing but civil - blunt, yes - but always civil. It is others who have resorted to name calling. Back on topic, my initial
31 Post contains images F9Widebody : Jeff's a straight shooter. You might not like what you hear, but it's correct. Be a little more thick skinned, people.
32 Sulman : Well then he won't mind a little of it in return, will he?
33 Flyfisher1976 : Actually, he might. I have found that this hypocritical "straight shooter" is great at dishing it out, but has trouble "taking it".
34 Post contains images JeffM : I don't. Already offered to have him do so... Really? News to me. Care to show us some examples? Or are you just shooting your mouth off for effect a
35 Post contains images ChrisH : By "it" you mean an interesting/challenging picture?
36 Post contains images DLKAPA : There are very set and specific rules of photography. First, you learn them. Second, you learn to break them. That's when you start taking really goo
37 Spencer : Oh Jeff, and there was I thinking we had something really good going on! No, no it does NOT! That image shows nothing of the sort!!! No way do I want
38 Ryangooner : As Spencer pointed out - far from it, nice try though Its quite obvious that you dont care about anything else, the threadstarter wanted some help bu
39 Post contains images Gary2880 : oooooh I would be interested if Jeff has a pbase or something similar for him to show us his photographs, with no rules attached to them... Anything
40 Linco22 : At this point in the thread i must say, i've forgotten what it was about in the first place......
41 Flyfisher1976 : Example one... then you have the balls to say... Apparently you have made a hobby out of this...
42 DLKAPA : And the motive was "Hey look, we're crossing the runway... CLICK!"
43 TZ : The original poster's question was answered very promptly early-on in this thread. Since then it's descended into a rather daft contest of egos. Pleas
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