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Photographer Used Netimage - What Is That?  
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

Hi guys.

I did a search under the word Netimage and got no results, so I'm sorry if this subject has been discussed.

The photographer of this cool shot mentions this at the end of his remarks .....

......... "Netimage to reduce the grain."


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Nobrega - Madeira Spotters



My questions are: What is Netimage and how does it work?

If it helps to reduce grain, I would sure like to learn about it because Toronto (where I live) has had nothing but overcast skys for the last month (we've had only 16 hours of sunlight in the past 3 weeks), and my photos always look grainy when I enlarge them if the lighting is from an dull overcast sky.

Any info about Netimage would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris.  Smile


"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1488 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3638 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Thread starter):
Photographer Used Netimage - What Is That?

That is something I would never use on my photos .....  bitelip 

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Thread starter):
my photos always look grainy when I enlarge them if the lighting is from an dull overcast sky.

Are you increasing the ISO? Better to use a bigger aperture and to keep the ISO at not more than 200.

Are you sharpening the entire image? Better to sharpen the aircraft only.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Neat image is a software that basically removes the noise/grain for you. The downside is that it will make your colours and your whole photo, mushy.

If however you are interested in it, the site is...
http://www.neatimage.com/

- Jason DePodesta


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3043 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3629 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hello Chris - how are you keeping?

I think this person meant to say 'Neat Image', which is a program that can be downloaded from the net. It can be useful for removing grain from photos, but it needs to be used with care. Too much of an effect on the image and it had a noticeable detrimental effect on areas that you don't really want it to touch.

I am sure if you look under 'Neat Image' you will find more information.

All the best.

Paul

P.S. Many posts at the same time, it seems. Chris - if you want to discuss its use in more detail, drop me a line - I have some experience with it.

[Edited 2006-01-12 17:50:24]

User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Hello Rotate.

Quoting Rotate (Reply 1):
That is something I would never use on my photos

OK, you made that point clear, but, would you mind explaining why you wouldn't use it? I still don't know what it is. Is it something photographers use for editing from a website?

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 5):
OK, you made that point clear, but, would you mind explaining why you wouldn't use it? I still don't know what it is. Is it something photographers use for editing from a website?

re-read the thread, Chris. Everything was stated before your reply  Smile

- Jason DePodesta


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Hi guys.

Wow, you all replied at the same time. Big grin

OK, I understand now that it's a program that's actually called "Neat Image", not Netimage.


Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
Are you increasing the ISO? Better to use a bigger aperture and to keep the ISO at not more than 200.

Are you sharpening the entire image? Better to sharpen the aircraft only.

>> Hello Viv, I've never tried to change the ISO setting on my camera before (which is only an HP Photosmart R707 with 5.1 mp), but it seems to me that now would be a good time to try that. Also, I didn't know I could sharpen "only" the aircraft. Wow, now my mind is really spinning!  spin  I've obviously got a lot of learning to do both about my little camera and my editing program which is CompuPic Pro.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 3):
Neat image is a software that basically removes the noise/grain for you. The downside is that it will make your colours and your whole photo, mushy.

>> Hello WhyWhyZed, Thanks for your info and the link. I think I'm going to pass on this "Neat Image" program for now though. I've got to much basic info to learn about first I believe.

PS, it was great to meet you out at Pearson Intl for the YYZ meet last summer.

Quoting Psych (Reply 4):
I think this person meant to say 'Neat Image', which is a program that can be downloaded from the net. It can be useful for removing grain from photos, but it needs to be used with care.

>> Hello Psych, yeah it was obviously just a typo in his remarks. Although I can be very neat & detailed & creative with a pencil or paintbrush, I think I'll wait a bit before I try to learn a new editing program on the computer like this Neat Image on the net.

Quoting Psych (Reply 4):
Hello Chris - how are you keeping?

Well Paul, that's kind of you to ask. Big grin I'm doing good, Thank You. I'm currently off work though with 3 broken ribs on my left side (I slipped & fell from on top of my truck's engine block and landed sideways on the front bumper that was fully exposed), so I've got another 10 days of healing time untill I go back to driving. Thus I've been visiting all the airports around Toronto & taking photos.

I've got to stop being so lazy and read some more about my camera's settings.  silly  I got my editing program from my Dad (just a copy he made on a disc), so I don't have a book about it's capabilities. I hope I find out that this program I'm using can isolate just and aircraft for sharpening ..... that would really be great!


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 7):
I hope I find out that this program I'm using can isolate just and aircraft for sharpening ..... that would really be great!

I don't know that programme, so can't give you an answer. I use Photoshop. "Photoshop Elements", which is a much cheaper programme, also allows selective sharpening.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 7):
camera before (which is only an HP Photosmart R707 with 5.1 mp),

Chris,

I just had a look at your uploads. You have some really excellent shots there.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Hi guys.

Hi Viv. I should go out right now and buy Photoshop! That way I'll be on the same page with everyone who uses it, and therefore it will be easier to get specific help & advice from the members of this forum.

Regarding selective sharpening, that must be an excellent feature to use when you don't want to make the sky look grainy after you've sharpened the aircraft. If I can't find that feature in my CompuPic Pro program, I'll need to call my Dad (who's in sunny Florida!), and see if he knows about that feature.

I appreciate your kind words about the few shots I've had accepted so far. I know I could get more accepted if I had better equipment and knew how to use it properly!

What are your thoughts guys about this photo regarding to much grain, etc?

I have several shots from many I took last weekend out at Toronto Intl (CYYZ) and a local GA airport called Buttonville Muni (CYKZ) that I feel are worthy of A.net's database. However, the overcast sky has made them all too grainy when I sharpen them. I did take a chance with this one shot though and submitted it .....

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...eady/PACr43Re1024Br5Sh15Com100.jpg

Do you guys think I should delete it from the queue, or stay hopeful?

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineCosmic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 3):
The downside is that it will make your colours and your whole photo, mushy.

Only if you don't use it correctly.

It helps me out, due to me having a Prosumer Digital Camera, some of the Photos can be noisy. I use it during editing to reduce the grain/noise. Most of my Photos in the database have had the use of neatimage on them.

Use it correctly, and it is a good tool.


User currently offlineAndyHunt From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1306 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3445 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Agreed, use it carefully and it can really make a positive difference to your images

Used it quite extensively with the D70, but not at all with the D200 Big grin

Andrew



Full frame always beats post processing
User currently offlineJAT74L From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 618 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

Here's why you should be careful with Neatimage. Look at the bushes...


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Photo © John Thompson



My one and only encounter!

Regards

John



I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
User currently offlineAndyHunt From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1306 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3438 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

You didn't use it properly

Andrew



Full frame always beats post processing
User currently offlineMartin21 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Quoting JAT74L (Reply 13):
Here's why you should be careful with Neatimage. Look at the bushes...

How can the accept such a photo ?

Martin21



At 30.000 feet, the sun always shines !
User currently offlineJAT74L From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 618 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

[

Quoting AndyHunt (Reply 14):
You didn't use it properly

I know that now!

Quoting Martin21 (Reply 15):
How can the accept such a photo ?

Thank you for the constructive reply.

Regards

John



I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
User currently offlineLennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Learn to understand and use 'Blur' filters properly. It's not easy.
Buying Neatimage off-the-shelf seems to be the easy way out, but
you still have understand what you are doing.

Most common progammes already have the 'Selective Gaussian Blur' filter, used very sparingly with
low values, is much better if you have to use such a filter to kill grain.

Gerry


User currently offlineAPFPilot1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 17):
Learn to understand and use 'Blur' filters properly. It's not easy.
Buying Neatimage off-the-shelf seems to be the easy way out, but
you still have understand what you are doing.

Most common progammes already have the 'Selective Gaussian Blur' filter, used very sparingly with
low values, is much better if you have to use such a filter to kill grain.

Gerry

I just use neatimage because it is much quicker when I have shot 300 or 400 shots of a band that I need to get to them by the next day..... and when its shot in a dark club i have no choice but to use high ISO.


User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 10):
I should go out right now and buy Photoshop!

Have a look on eBay. You can pick up an unregistered copy of PS Elements 2 for next to nothing.


User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2035 posts, RR: 33
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

May be just me, but I've never, ever seen the need for it when using a DSLR in daylight. Personally, I really do not like the look that it gives images - I'd rather have the grain.


Cheers

James



It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlineFergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting Willo (Reply 19):
Have a look on eBay. You can pick up an unregistered copy of PS Elements 2 for next to nothing.

You can get Elements 3.0 for around €100 a very good program that is able to handle and work with raw images, when you get to that stage.
When usin NI you can adjust the green levels so that the grass and bushes won't be affected, by simply messing around with them you can get a good balance. Like all have said before, use it wisely and you will have no problems. I used to use it but then I got my 'L' lenses and never had the need to use it again, except on some negative scans.

Take care

Fergul  sun 



Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3255 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

To my mind there are two things about Neat Image
1. Knowing when to use it
2. Knowing how to use it.

Firstly most images do not need it at all but scanned images from anything above the slowest film might. The best way to use NI is to forget you have it until you need it !
The how is another problem and it needs to be used to the point that its use is barely discernible. To my mind it is even overdone in the first image used on this thread and I wonder if that would have got through screening if the image was less spectacular.
Neat Image overused removes fine detail and can leave images looking plastic
Two examples are shown here, one done well one dreadfully

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Photo © Mick Bajcar
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mick Bajcar



The bad one will be re-done as soon as possible. The grain had reticualted on the Alitalia one and was awful before the use of NI
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineMalandan From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 380 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

I totally agree with Mick, and I have found that the difference between Neat Image and the comparable facility in Photoshop is unlikely to transform a rejection into an acceptance.

In the UK, PC World sell Photoshop Elements 4 for £69.99 with a manufacturers rebate of £15.

When compared with the cost of photographic equipment, this is extremely good value and will cope with all of the processing needs most of us are likely to need.

.... and no, I ain,t got shares in PC World!

Malcolm.



My interest lies in the future as I am going to spend the rest of my life there!
User currently offlineCosmic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

I had tried the substitute in Photoshop and didn't get along well with it, and continue to use Neat Image. I have edited a DSLR image before, and no, it didn't need it. If anyone fancies editing a Photo of mine without using any noise reduction feel free to ask.  

Lots of talk about the images looking like plastic, I'll let you be the judges of that. Take a quick look at my Photos, I don't personally think they look plastic. The only time photos look plastic after being neatimaged is when you apply to much neatimage, or, do not use it correctly.

Like the tool in Photoshop, if you know how to use it, it is a poweful and useful tool.

I think that If I hadn't used it, I would probably have 2 Photo on this database, the ones taken in direct sunlight. And no, I don't just take Photos to try and put on Airliners.net. I take the Photos for myself and others.

The Programme is also useful during the editing of other kinds of Photographs aswell, like night Photos for example.  

Cheers,
Cosmic

[Edited 2006-01-13 16:53:33]

25 EZEIZA : I'm not in my home now so I can't download neat image but I will later on. The question is, how and when do I use it? I mean, at what point during the
26 Fly747 : It is the very first step you do. Ivan
27 Post contains images Cosmic : I always use Neat Image after editing the Photograph in Photoshop or the editing software. This way, I can use my techniques in Photoshop which preven
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