MattWS From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 40 posts, RR: 2 Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1273 times:
Basically a well known newspaper in the UK has used a picture of mine without permission and without giving me any photo credit, the newspaper sells between 500,000 and 1,000,000 copies daily and using the photovault price list I was intending to charge around £300 for it ($500USD). The image is reproduced in B+W, on page 4 and is about 3.5 inches by 2.5 inches in size.
Is it justified to ask for more money on the basis that I have not been creditied as that is what irks me more than anything else-they did email me for permission yesterday but I didn't read my mail until about midnight last night and presumed that they would have contacted someone else by then.
Photopilot From Cuba, joined Jul 2002, 2410 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
Quoting MattWS (Thread starter): I was intending to charge around £300 for it ($500USD). The image is reproduced in B+W, on page 4 and is about 3.5 inches by 2.5 inches in size.
IMHO, £300 is out of line and too much to charge. According to the photovault website, an interior shot (editorial) would be worth $225 for that circulation size. So you're over twice what normal market rate would be and let's face it, page 4 at a small size isn't major usage.
As to the no-permission issue. Well you do admit that they made the effort to contact you PRIOR to usage. But the news business runs on TIGHT DEADLINES, and at some point, an editor made the determination to go ahead and use your image. I spent many years in the news business and this editor did not do this with the INTENT of cheating you, or he/she wouldn't even have bothered to contact you at all. So there is no doubt that they INTEND to pay a reasonable fee for the use of this image. It's just your inability to respond quickly enough to meet press deadlines that has caused the problem.
So honestly, I'd give them a break and use this as an OPPORTUNITY to build a good relationship with the photo editor at the paper. Offer a blanket usage agreement for your images for future use. IE, they can use any of your images without prior approval, but must pay a set fee when they do so. Get your toe in the door, build a relationship with them, and see what doors might open in future. Or..... try this once to rake them over the coals, make a few extra dollars and forever end future sales. Your choice.
Maiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 54 Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1236 times:
Considering they used it without permission I would say 400 pounds is a perfect price.
Dendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1524 posts, RR: 67 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1212 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SCREENER
If they have used it without your permission, you can charge what you want,
It happened to me and I set a price a bit higher than I would normally ask then added 50% for their breach of my copyright. I told them that I had done so and, after a bit of barter they paid.
If you are UK based and it is a UK Newspaper they don't have a leg to stand on. If they don't pay, double it again, go to the Press Complaints and small claims Court. Their contacting you but not waiting for a reply has knackered any defence they might have too...they have acknowledged your copyright.
Building a relationship is good with the aviation press, a normal newspaper, forget it
Mick Bajcar
Photopilot From Cuba, joined Jul 2002, 2410 posts, RR: 23 Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1208 times:
You know, one thing I'd like to know, especially from posters Lindy and Maiznblu.
At today's rates, 400.00 Pounds is equal to about 710.867 US Dollars.
Under what conceivable business thought can you justify charging over 3-1/2 times the Photovault price? Matt didn't win the lottery, he just had a photo used, where it's admitted that permission was sought.
Is that today's new photographer's business model. Be tardy answering emails in the hope they'll (with deadlines looming) use the photo anyway and Yiippeee.... I've won the lottery and can now Price Gouge?
All I'd like to know is how an obscenely high price can be justified given the facts as presented.
MattWS From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 40 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1191 times:
Admittedly the initial price was over the odds, and I was never expecting a big deal out of this, but if you make your opening bid whatever market rate happens to be then it is inevitable that you will end up haggling down to below the market rate-you gotta start high if you want the middle ground to be realistic.
Yes I am UK based, and so is the newspaper-so I can call the shots, but this is the biggest deal I've had for a while so I want to make the most of it-even if that means accepting a lower initial price in order to make good contacts for later on.
Lennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1183 times:
Matt..
Exactly same thing happened to me, a large Sunday UK newspaper
with a high circulation. (Begins with 'T') last year
They used my pic and then they sent me a belated e-mail saying they used it. They couldn't wait for my permission.
It was syndicated further onto another newspaper, which also stumped up
when challenged.
My case was sorted ok, and yes, raise your price a wee bit above the baseline.
Maiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 54 Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1175 times:
Quoting Photopilot (Reply 7): You know, one thing I'd like to know, especially from posters Lindy and Maiznblu.
They didnt wait for his permission. What if he didnt want it published by that particular publication? I know there are certain publications that I wouldnt contribute to.
Quoting Photopilot (Reply 7): Under what conceivable business thought can you justify charging over 3-1/2 times the Photovault price? Matt didn't win the lottery, he just had a photo used, where it's admitted that permission was sought.
I am just telling you what I would do. They assumed they could use the photo without his permission.
Quoting Photopilot (Reply 7): Is that today's new photographer's business model. Be tardy answering emails in the hope they'll (with deadlines looming) use the photo anyway and Yiippeee.... I've won the lottery and can now Price Gouge?
Dont question the way I do business... What you said is far from the truth.
Lennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1173 times:
Steve , I also understand the Get your toe in the door, build a relationship with them method too.
I've also tried that approach too, but I am still waiting for any follow-up contacts.
Why? Because most newspapers still snatch and hope we're dumb.
I have a high regard for only a few companies who have dealt with me honestly.
I am watching eagerly a nearby Scots buddy who is taking the professional
approach after a high profile photo snatch. He's hoping for a long term deal.
I have my grave doubts.
Dendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1524 posts, RR: 67 Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1131 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SCREENER
Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 12): Why? Because most newspapers still snatch and hope we're dumb.
Absolutely correct !
They do not give a damn about where a photo comes from and will not shop around or go to someone who has helped them before. They might go to a Photo Library for a less urgent story, but look for you because you let them have one cheap -never !
If they want an aircraft photo. I am sure this site is one of the first they come to but don't think you will get special favours for letting them off the hook this time. Aircraft photos are hardly newsworthy to the general public on a daily basis either are they ?
Though you have not won the lottery you should have a decent payday and the £400 is probably about right. Remember that the tax man will want a slice too !
Martin21 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 346 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1121 times:
I totally agree with Photopilot's both post !
They try to contact you and 400 pounds is way overrated !
I think you should be glad to sell a photo and get 225 pounds. And maybe a little apology.
MattWS From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 40 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1117 times:
Don't want to disappoint you guys but they didn't come here first-it was actually taken from 'Brand X', even though there are pictures of this aircraft here at Anet. The aircraft is N741EV and it is to do with the crew declaring a 'mayday' and flying (or should I say gliding) over London inbound to LHR. Several guys were on hand to get shots at LHR 27R with some ending up here and some ending up at the other site.
GBOAB From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 365 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1108 times:
Hi Matt
Hope you get a good deal out of this
Shame they didn't come to me I have a photo of the plane on this site taken on the day, I also have pictures of it doing the 'S' turns and landing with the fire trucks in attendance.
DC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 18 Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1090 times:
I'm with Mick on this. If a newspaper uses a photo of yours without permission then definitely ask for more than the ordinary price. £400 for use by a national newspaper without your consent I wouldn't consider too much at all.
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