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First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?  
User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Here I am again, as a beginner, asking for good advice.

This close up was first rejected, being too soft:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r.../big/20060104_EIDHC1787netDEF3.jpg

Then I sharpened a bit more and it was rejected, having jaggies:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r.../big/20060114_EIDHC1787netDEF4.jpg

I am quite sure the screeners are right and doing a great job, and I want to learn how to do it...

What do You recommend?

First a mild sharpening with USM of whole picture?
Then masking and only selective sharpening of certain areas?
Or Fergul's advice of masking out everything but the aircraft and then sharpening in many layers.

Best regards,
Frippe

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3064 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
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Hi again Frippe.

I would suggest that you give one pass of USM with settings of 500%, 0.2 and 0, for the whole photo. I often find that with a close up like this the photo can 'take' another USM pass of somewhere around 150%, 0.2 and 0. An alternative that I often use is to stick with the initial pass, and then use the sharpening tool to selectively add a bit of extra sharpening where the photo needs it.

In both your examples above I think the screeners got it right.

As before, if you would like to see an alternate edit, feel free to drop me a line again.

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

Hi Frippe,

I think the second shot is just slightly oversharpened around the cabin windows and also the harp strings on the logo.

Try the sharpening values Paul has suggested and I'm sure the shot will look fine, as it is nice and crisp and the lighting good.

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

Hi again and thanks for good advice!

I have not followed Your recommendation, Paul, and sharpened twice and photo is now uploaded:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/EIDHC1787netDEF5Aug27.jpg

If this is not good enough I will try the second method (selective sharpening in the second run) as the last resort.
Frippe


User currently offlineMartin21 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Hi Frippe,

I think the screeners are right. But I also think the 3th one is good, it is right in between the 1st and 2nd. I also think that the colors on the 2nd and 3th look better than on the 1st one ! Good luck with these and with your other photos.

Martin21



At 30.000 feet, the sun always shines !
User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Sorry, what a mistake in Reply 3. Text should of course read:

I have NOW followed Your recommendation

Please forgive, and thanks again Martin for your input.

Frippe


User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Accepted or not...great shot...!

Regards



Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4006 times:

Hello again and many thanks to You all for good advice and support.
The photo was accepted today:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/994498/L/
Thanks again to You all who make this such a friendly community,
Frippe


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

I'm surprised it didn't get a motive rejection for cutting off the lettering...

User currently offlineIngemarE From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 285 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

As for myself, I'm not bothered with the lettering, since the full name won't be shown anyway.

What I do think is missing is the last wee bit of the exhaust pipe! The engine feels a bit "cut off", if you see what I mean?!
Otherwise a great pic Frippe!!  thumbsup 

/Ingemar



In thrust I trust.
User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

Hello again and thanks for Your input.
I think You have a point here, JeffM. Maybe they found it OK because here in Sweden at least we often shorten the name just to Ryan. Or maybe they just didn't like me to show up the photo again after THREE rejections already.

And Ingemar, you are right in having sharp eyes with the exhaust pipe.

This concerns the first rejection for ANGLE. I had not framed the plane horizontally from the beginning. And by rotating CCW by 1.32 the cropping was extremely tight - remember NO editing with cloning and such cheating. Therefore something had to be cut away.

Next time I have to keep camera better lined up.

Thanks again,
Frippe


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting Frippe (Reply 10):
Maybe they found it OK because here in Sweden at least we often shorten the name just to Ryan.

Even if that were the case, you clipped the the back part of the "N". Normally that would get a photo rejected, and as mentioned you cut off the tailpipe too.

Quoting Frippe (Reply 10):
Therefore something had to be cut away.

Strange. So much for consistancy......


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Good Lord. I'm just getting into my Digital Rebel and I personally thought both photos were stunning. I saw no difference.

It seems I have a lot to learn.  Sad


User currently offlineFrippe From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 185 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Thanks again, JeffM, for your input.

Let me add only that I am quite new to this hobby, having only 50+ photos in the db, most of them side ons or photos showing the whole airplane.

So in many ways I have to learn the hard way from studying accepted photos and from rejections (of which I have many). And especially this is the case for me when I try to take more zoomed in photos or photos with only a part of the a/c.

Therefore I am very glad for what you point out as regular reasons for Motiv or Centering rejections. I simply did not know how important such details were.

Thanks again,
Frippe


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Interesting tips as I also have problems with jaggies sometimes. Please see my photos I've uploaded just now and advice where possible.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/RGM11RCAMSJUL05.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/KZ744FRCAMS030705G.jpg

The find the NCA livery tough to work with. Can anyone give me tips on how to get rid of the jaggies on the livery?

Also, how do you selectively sharpen a photo? I use Photo Shop but can't find the function (?)

If you have any tips please do let me know Big grin

Regards,

A388


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3800 times:

Wow, you guys really have exacting standards....

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3798 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 15):
Wow, you guys really have exacting standards....

Hi MarshalN, what do you mean by exacting standards?

Best regards,

Roger


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3792 times:

To the layman the difference in these pictures is very minimal

User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2850 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 14):

The Sharpening tool is under Filter > Sharpen from the top menu.

-Matt



No info
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Hi Jetmatt777,

I know the sharpening tool is under Filter but the other members are talking about sharpening a photo in the areas where needed. That's what I meant actually. So far I can only sharpen an entire photo and not part of a photo (a selected area in the photo). Or am I misreading the posts of the other members? Is it possible to select an area of a photo and than sharpen just that area?

In any way, thanks for the tip Matt Big grin

Roger


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