LGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1481 times:
Hi all,
Bit of a long story but I hope you can persevere; I am after help and advice from people at a.net because I know you guys know what you are talking about and speak with unbiased views on this matter.
Some of you may, or may not have noticed I have only uploaded two new images since early October 2005. This is because I have had serious problems with my camera gear.
I have used a Canon D30 for years with a Sigma EX 100-300mm f4, no problems great quality photos all round; June 2005 I purchased a Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8, again worked fine, great lens.
In October 2005 I purchased a used Canon 20D from a camera shop 50 miles from me, I purchased it over the phone and when I recieved the body I took it out with my lenses to see how it all worked.
My 24-70mm lens had severe focus problems, here us one example of a 100% crop, uneditied :-
I had read about the Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8 having focus problems with the 20D so I thought I will send it to Sigma for fixing, however a morning at LGW revealed my 100-300 was also having problems with my 20D, not focus but the images were softer than they should be and this was irratic, some worse than others.
I sent my 20D and both lenses to Sigma for testing and calibration after 3 months, yes you read that right they have managed to get the 24-70 "within acceptable levels, but not perfect" and the 100-300 is still softer than it should be. Out of interest they say my lenses work fine on their 20D body and their versions of my lenses they have work fine on my 20D!
Now, this is where your opinions and thoughts will be useful to me.
What would you do in my position? I own a D30 which my lenses both work fine on and I own a 20D which neither do. I still have a warranty on the 20D body until April 2006 by the way and both lenses are out or warranty.
The way I see it I could :-
1) Try to get a refund on the 20D and buy a new 20D where I can test my lenses in the store on a number of bodies to ensure I will get it all working as it should
2) Keep the 20D and sell the lenses, buy new lenses but test them on my 20D before I buy them
3) Get my camera checked by Canon to make sure it is working as it should (even though other lenses work fine on it) and then take it from there
4) Sell all my gear and blow the money on wine, women and song
Sorry for such a long post but I hope some of you maybe able to relieve the pressure a bit on my by giving me your thoughts
Cheers
Ben
P.S Please refrain from telling me I should not have purchased third party lenses, I do realise this problem almost certainly wouldnt have occured with Canon lenses but I have two cracking lenses, both bought for a great price and I am in a really tough position so could do without being kicked when im down
Woody001 From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2004, 529 posts, RR: 35 Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1406 times:
Hi Ben,
I would seriously consider getting the 20D checked out by Canon, although how long this will take seems to be a lottery.
Have you tried the camera out with Canon lenses?
Quoting LGW (Thread starter): Out of interest they say my lenses work fine on their 20D body and their versions of my lenses they have work fine on my 20D!
This confuses me somewhat, possibly yourself too? I just can't understand how they can be different, as either are acting as the control. Did Sigma explain what settings they used and whether they applied any sharpening etc?
Fergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1909 posts, RR: 59 Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
Ben Old mate, you looking for help!!!!?????
No worries mate, personaly I would believe that your 20D is the problem. I have a similar set up with the 24-70 Sigma and the 20D and find it a cracking set up. My shots are tack sharp on my 10D as well as my 20D with that lens, noisy but a fast and sharp lens. Mick Bajcar has the same lens and finds it hard to see the difference between that lens and his 17-40L! I really don't believe in this repair deal. I believe that once a camera is giving trouble it always will no matter how many times it goes in for a service/repair.
I would go for option 1 Ben if at all possible.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2374 posts, RR: 53 Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1363 times:
The 20D is not the problem nor is the 24-70/2.8.
Canon is the problem as they want you to use Canon glass instead of third party equivalents.
Sigma(and others) is always one step behind because they first need to know what changes there are in a new camera before they are able to adjust there hardware.
In this case I am quite sure that you are using a series 3 or older 24-70/2.8 which indeed has problems with the 20D.
I advice you to mail Sigma and ask if your lens can be re-chipped or maybe you have to buy a new one and if so which series is compatible.
If I am informed correctly the 100-300/4 should work fine and the "soft" problem is more "you" and adapting to your new combination.
Fergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1909 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1358 times:
Ben one thing I forgot to add in my post is that can you try a similar lens, if someone else has that lens or as Willem suggests, you lens may be a different generation type so try and borrow a Sigma DG lens and see how that works out, that way you may find out what is causing the problem. Mine is the DG EX type and like I said is very sharp.
LGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1324 times:
Hi all,
Thanks for all your help, both via this thread and from various emails I have recieved on the matter.
I have decided this week to go into Jessops (or similar) with my lenses and say I am interested in upgrading to a 20D, take some test shots with their 20D body and my lenses and take them home on a memory card and compare to shots taken with my set up; I will also try this the other way round by going to a different shop that sells my lenses and say I am interested in the new lens and can I try it on my 20D etc.
When I get back and review the images I will then decide what action to take depending on the results but from what others have said I think I will get my 20D checked by Canon, they have a repair centre at Fixation in London, pretty good for me as I have to go to London every week anyway so hopefully can get the issue sorted.
Just out of interest my 100-300mm f4 is not a DG model, but my 24-70 f2.8 is a DG model.
Sukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 341 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1321 times:
Ben,
Do you know anyone with a 20D that you can test your lenses on? Possibly a shorter way of finding out if its the body thats at fault rather than sending it to the black hole at Canon?
The statement Sigma have made about your glass working fine on their body and their glass working fine on your body seems very confusing, did they add anymore?
You havent missed much at LGW anyway, so probably a "good" time to get things sorted.
Dendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 70 Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1319 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Ben
We might all be looking for a too complex solution to this problem. In your top image the sign is not sharp, in the bottom one it is. I would not expect the image to be sharp across the frame with such a subject due to depth of field.
I wonder which focussing mode you have set and which focussing points you are using.
Try setting the camera on a tripod and photograph a newspaper or brick wall with the camera paralell to the paper using only the centre point focus. Try this at a variety of focal lengths so that the paper fills the frame...you will obviously have to move the camera.
Use an exposure so that the lens is at F8
My money is currently on a tecnique/settings problem rather than lenses, camera or compatibility.
Let us (or me) see the results !
Mick Bajcar
Paulinbna From United States, joined Feb 2003, 1083 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
Mick, I had this problem with me 20D, I had accidentally selected the focus point all the way on the right. Stuff coming at me was out of focus. Spent about three days tearing my hair out, until I suddenly thought about the focus points. Almost sent the camera back to Canon.
Not saying this is Ben's problem just thought I would add it.
One more thing is that I agree with Mick about the second picture the 20D is very soft when either shot in RAW or when shot at -2 sharpness.
They look better than before, but as I am not used to 20D images yet as I am with the D30 I was wondeirng if someone who uses a 20D or similar high MP camera whether they look like the sort fo quality/sharpness you may expect from my equipment?
All of the images in the link were taken with 20D sharpness on low and exif data should be available below each full size image
As for the 24-70 well I will post some samples on here very soon but having put it on a different 20D body earlier today as well as my own it is definatly still wrong
Thanks again
Ben
PS Ignore the lovely sensor dust, that came courtesy of Sigma
Dendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 70 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1183 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting LGW (Reply 12): All of the images in the link were taken with 20D sharpness on low
If they are unsharpened and with the camera sharpness set at low, they look very good to me.
I actually use the sharpness set at zero on my 20D rather than -2 which I take it you have set.
My suggestion of photographing a newspaper was so that you get a side to side, corner to corner image as that shows up any defects really well.
Mick Bajcar
LGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1166 times:
Mick,
The shots you just looked at were with the 100-300 and I have just uploaded 4 shots to that pbase link in my previous post, newspaper shots, with my 24-70.
Canon 20D
Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8 DG Macro
Exif info below each full size shot as before, one at 24mm, one at about 35mm, one around 50mm and one at 70mm all at f8. Centre focus point on all shots, no editing done.
The lens, without doubt is not working right, just look at the 24mm shot!
Dendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 70 Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1152 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting LGW (Reply 14): The lens, without doubt is not working right, just look at the 24mm shot!
I'm not so sure.
The best way is to fill the frame with the paper at each focal length.
Now, look at the 24mm shot....the fabric of the seat is pin sharp at either side. If there is a fault with the lens, which I am doubting more and more, it is a very unusual one for the centre to be unsharp and the edges sharp. That is the opposite of what I would expect.
I used that lens for a while, still got it actually, and it is damned sharp.
Mick Bajcar
LGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1143 times:
Mick,
Also forgot to say I tried my 24-70 on a new 20D in Jessops this morning and the images were soft and poorly focussed with their body too, images looked very much like the ones from my body.
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
www.ImageShack.us"
www.ImageShack.us"
From United States, joined May 2005, 3256 posts, 
From Costa Rica, joined Aug 2004, 7307 posts, .gif){kind=small}
From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2004, 529 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1909 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2374 posts, 
as they want you to use Canon glass instead of third party equivalents.
From Sweden, joined May 2006, 341 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1360 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
