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Advice On Camera And Lenses Problem Please  
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6727 times:

Hi all,

Bit of a long story but I hope you can persevere; I am after help and advice from people at a.net because I know you guys know what you are talking about and speak with unbiased views on this matter.

Some of you may, or may not have noticed I have only uploaded two new images since early October 2005. This is because I have had serious problems with my camera gear.

I have used a Canon D30 for years with a Sigma EX 100-300mm f4, no problems great quality photos all round; June 2005 I purchased a Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8, again worked fine, great lens.

In October 2005 I purchased a used Canon 20D from a camera shop 50 miles from me, I purchased it over the phone and when I recieved the body I took it out with my lenses to see how it all worked.

My 24-70mm lens had severe focus problems, here us one example of a 100% crop, uneditied :-

Free Image Hosting at <a href=www.ImageShack.us" />

the same body with another lens, I think it was Canon 24-85mm :-

Free Image Hosting at <a href=www.ImageShack.us" />

I had read about the Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8 having focus problems with the 20D so I thought I will send it to Sigma for fixing, however a morning at LGW revealed my 100-300 was also having problems with my 20D, not focus but the images were softer than they should be and this was irratic, some worse than others.

I sent my 20D and both lenses to Sigma for testing and calibration after 3 months, yes you read that right they have managed to get the 24-70 "within acceptable levels, but not perfect" and the 100-300 is still softer than it should be. Out of interest they say my lenses work fine on their 20D body and their versions of my lenses they have work fine on my 20D!

Now, this is where your opinions and thoughts will be useful to me.

What would you do in my position? I own a D30 which my lenses both work fine on and I own a 20D which neither do. I still have a warranty on the 20D body until April 2006 by the way and both lenses are out or warranty.

The way I see it I could :-

1) Try to get a refund on the 20D and buy a new 20D where I can test my lenses in the store on a number of bodies to ensure I will get it all working as it should

2) Keep the 20D and sell the lenses, buy new lenses but test them on my 20D before I buy them

3) Get my camera checked by Canon to make sure it is working as it should (even though other lenses work fine on it) and then take it from there

4) Sell all my gear and blow the money on wine, women and song

Sorry for such a long post but I hope some of you maybe able to relieve the pressure a bit on my by giving me your thoughts

Cheers

Ben

P.S Please refrain from telling me I should not have purchased third party lenses, I do realise this problem almost certainly wouldnt have occured with Canon lenses but I have two cracking lenses, both bought for a great price and I am in a really tough position so could do without being kicked when im down  Wink

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

Hey Ben, haven't seen you around much...

I'd go with option 3, then 1.

of course 4 works too, but forget the song...

 Wink


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Quoting LGW (Thread starter):
4) Sell all my gear and blow the money on wine, women and song

I will go by this (just joking).

Now serious. I don´t know how do you call that in your country, but in mine is a crime. I will seriously discuss this with the dealer asap.


User currently offlineWoody001 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 529 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Hi Ben,
I would seriously consider getting the 20D checked out by Canon, although how long this will take seems to be a lottery.

Have you tried the camera out with Canon lenses?

Quoting LGW (Thread starter):
Out of interest they say my lenses work fine on their 20D body and their versions of my lenses they have work fine on my 20D!

This confuses me somewhat, possibly yourself too? I just can't understand how they can be different, as either are acting as the control. Did Sigma explain what settings they used and whether they applied any sharpening etc?

I'm somewhat intrigued by this matter.

Anyhow, hope your keeping well,
Ian.



If I could just get the afterburner working...
User currently offlineFergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6615 times:

Ben Old mate, you looking for help!!!!?????

No worries mate, personaly I would believe that your 20D is the problem. I have a similar set up with the 24-70 Sigma and the 20D and find it a cracking set up. My shots are tack sharp on my 10D as well as my 20D with that lens, noisy but a fast and sharp lens. Mick Bajcar has the same lens and finds it hard to see the difference between that lens and his 17-40L! I really don't believe in this repair deal. I believe that once a camera is giving trouble it always will no matter how many times it goes in for a service/repair.
I would go for option 1 Ben if at all possible.

Take care

Fergul  sun 



Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

The 20D is not the problem nor is the 24-70/2.8.
Canon is the problem Big grin as they want you to use Canon glass instead of third party equivalents.
Sigma(and others) is always one step behind because they first need to know what changes there are in a new camera before they are able to adjust there hardware.
In this case I am quite sure that you are using a series 3 or older 24-70/2.8 which indeed has problems with the 20D.
I advice you to mail Sigma and ask if your lens can be re-chipped or maybe you have to buy a new one and if so which series is compatible.
If I am informed correctly the 100-300/4 should work fine and the "soft" problem is more "you" and adapting to your new combination.

Success,
Willem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineFergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

Ben one thing I forgot to add in my post is that can you try a similar lens, if someone else has that lens or as Willem suggests, you lens may be a different generation type so try and borrow a Sigma DG lens and see how that works out, that way you may find out what is causing the problem. Mine is the DG EX type and like I said is very sharp.

Take care

Fergul  sun 



Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Hi all,

Thanks for all your help, both via this thread and from various emails I have recieved on the matter.

I have decided this week to go into Jessops (or similar) with my lenses and say I am interested in upgrading to a 20D, take some test shots with their 20D body and my lenses and take them home on a memory card and compare to shots taken with my set up; I will also try this the other way round by going to a different shop that sells my lenses and say I am interested in the new lens and can I try it on my 20D etc.

When I get back and review the images I will then decide what action to take depending on the results but from what others have said I think I will get my 20D checked by Canon, they have a repair centre at Fixation in London, pretty good for me as I have to go to London every week anyway so hopefully can get the issue sorted.

Just out of interest my 100-300mm f4 is not a DG model, but my 24-70 f2.8 is a DG model.

Many thanks for your help everyone

Ben


User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

Ben,

Do you know anyone with a 20D that you can test your lenses on? Possibly a shorter way of finding out if its the body thats at fault rather than sending it to the black hole at Canon?

The statement Sigma have made about your glass working fine on their body and their glass working fine on your body seems very confusing, did they add anymore?

You havent missed much at LGW anyway, so probably a "good" time to get things sorted.

Paul


User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1668 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6565 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Ben
We might all be looking for a too complex solution to this problem. In your top image the sign is not sharp, in the bottom one it is. I would not expect the image to be sharp across the frame with such a subject due to depth of field.
I wonder which focussing mode you have set and which focussing points you are using.
Try setting the camera on a tripod and photograph a newspaper or brick wall with the camera paralell to the paper using only the centre point focus. Try this at a variety of focal lengths so that the paper fills the frame...you will obviously have to move the camera.
Use an exposure so that the lens is at F8
My money is currently on a tecnique/settings problem rather than lenses, camera or compatibility.
Let us (or me) see the results !
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlinePaulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6524 times:
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Mick, I had this problem with me 20D, I had accidentally selected the focus point all the way on the right. Stuff coming at me was out of focus. Spent about three days tearing my hair out, until I suddenly thought about the focus points. Almost sent the camera back to Canon.

Not saying this is Ben's problem just thought I would add it.

One more thing is that I agree with Mick about the second picture the 20D is very soft when either shot in RAW or when shot at -2 sharpness.



Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Hi all,

Once again thanks for your thoughts. I will get my equipment back on Tuesday from Sigma and then I shall run a series of tests as suggested above.

I will let you know how I get on later in the week

Thanks again

Ben


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Hi all,

Just got my gear back, here a a few shots with my 20D and Sigma EX 100-300mm f4:-

http://www.pbase.com/martlet/20d

They look better than before, but as I am not used to 20D images yet as I am with the D30 I was wondeirng if someone who uses a 20D or similar high MP camera whether they look like the sort fo quality/sharpness you may expect from my equipment?

All of the images in the link were taken with 20D sharpness on low and exif data should be available below each full size image

As for the 24-70 well I will post some samples on here very soon but having put it on a different 20D body earlier today as well as my own it is definatly still wrong

Thanks again

Ben

PS Ignore the lovely sensor dust, that came courtesy of Sigma  Wink


User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1668 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6429 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Quoting LGW (Reply 12):
All of the images in the link were taken with 20D sharpness on low

If they are unsharpened and with the camera sharpness set at low, they look very good to me.
I actually use the sharpness set at zero on my 20D rather than -2 which I take it you have set.
My suggestion of photographing a newspaper was so that you get a side to side, corner to corner image as that shows up any defects really well.
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Mick,

The shots you just looked at were with the 100-300 and I have just uploaded 4 shots to that pbase link in my previous post, newspaper shots, with my 24-70.

Canon 20D
Sigma EX 24-70mm f2.8 DG Macro

Exif info below each full size shot as before, one at 24mm, one at about 35mm, one around 50mm and one at 70mm all at f8. Centre focus point on all shots, no editing done.

The lens, without doubt is not working right, just look at the 24mm shot!

Cheers

Ben

[Edited 2006-02-14 18:30:08]

User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1668 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6398 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Quoting LGW (Reply 14):
The lens, without doubt is not working right, just look at the 24mm shot!

I'm not so sure.
The best way is to fill the frame with the paper at each focal length.
Now, look at the 24mm shot....the fabric of the seat is pin sharp at either side. If there is a fault with the lens, which I am doubting more and more, it is a very unusual one for the centre to be unsharp and the edges sharp. That is the opposite of what I would expect.
I used that lens for a while, still got it actually, and it is damned sharp.
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6389 times:

Mick,

Also forgot to say I tried my 24-70 on a new 20D in Jessops this morning and the images were soft and poorly focussed with their body too, images looked very much like the ones from my body.

Cheers

Ben


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