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In My Shoes, What Would Have Been Your Reaction?  
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4997 times:
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This very cold morning, I went to JFK to take some shots.

Some of my good friends and I were sitting in our cars until we saw a plane start takeoff. W'ed jump out, take some pics, then warm up in the car again.

As we took photos, some stranger, who was in the parking lot to tow someone's vehicle,

-saw me,
-with my camera up to my eye and pointing at a plane

-and walked to within 3 feet of me, asking, 2-3 times in quick succession, "What are you doing?"


The first time he asked the question, I ignored him mainly b/c I was in the midst of tracking the plane in the viewfinder. When he asked the question again, I kept shooting and said "What do you think I'm doing?

At that point, Phil took over the conversation as I was visibly annoyed.

What would have been your reaction? I mean, the moxie on this guy to get within 3 feet of me and start questioning me was a bit shocking.


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

I'd probably have told him to "f*** off" and mind his own business. It's bad enough security getting clever, let alone passers by.

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

Doing a Dick Cheney comes to mind

User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

you should have kept on tracking the aircraft pretending you hadnt seen him then smacked him over the side of the head with the lens if he was so close

''ohh! dear me im sorry i didnt see you there''


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 1):
I'd probably have told him to "f*** off" and mind his own business. It's bad enough security getting clever, let alone passers by.

Okay -- perhaps I'm the only person here who may have thought that the person was perhaps INTERESTED in what they were doing, versus being a sarcastic sod..

There are tons of people out there who have *no* concept of Aviation Photography as a hobby, and sometimes it requires some explanation..

I'd suggest that your response and perhaps the way the poster and his friends responded gave our hobby a very bad impression to this person..

WHo knows, perhaps the guy was interested in it, and he didn't know how to approach them.

Why does everyone have to be so rude? LOL

Yeah, the guy was rude initially, but I woulda said "hold on" taken my shot, and then I woulda said "well, do you see that aircraft over there?" and he most likely woulda said "Yes?" and then you respond "I'm an aviation photographer, and I was taking pictures of it, in case you couldn't see.." -- That way, you politely explain what you're doing, and you get a little 'dig' in there as well.

NO need to tell someone to F*** off.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 4):
I'd suggest that your response and perhaps the way the poster and his friends responded gave our hobby a very bad impression to this person..

Mike, I sincerly hope that people don't perceive me as being rude, but I think the context that mirrodie portrays suggests that the guy was being an a***hole.

I love talking to people at the airports I visit and explaining about the hobby to those who don't know about it. I am all in favour of our hobby being more widely accepted, as you'd see if you had read my posts over the last 12 months. What I would have taken exception to is being harrassed in such a way when I'm stood minding my own business. I think it is this guy who has the problem.

Regards,

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineGarri767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

well whether you see him interested or rude , its like the glass, is it half full or half empty?

User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
At that point, Phil took over the conversation as I was visibly annoyed.

If you were shooting with Phil, why worry?  Smile

Actually, if the person is not in a uniform, I usually don't even answer them, if so, their attitude dictates my response.


User currently offlineAAGOLD From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4834 times:
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Mario,

LOL, welcome to the club. You have heard our stories so you shouldn't have been surprised at all. Just ask Phil about the soccer moms who approached us in Howard Beach, then called someone who followed us all the way to Bayswater and then called the police on us. It's all part of the game.

Like I said, welcome to the club. Unfortunately it's not an exclusive club.

Art


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 2):
Doing a Dick Cheney comes to mind

LMAO!  duck   fight 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 1):
I'd probably have told him to "f*** off" and mind his own business. It's bad enough security getting clever, let alone passers by.

 checkmark 

Wow Mario, I couldn't believe what I was reading. Can't wait to get the details from Phil later. I probably would have had a negative reaction to this person. It is getting to the point where OUR rights are beginning to be infringed upon. On the opposite side of your story I just got back from Kingman and enjoyed the best day of spotting. I sat right next to the fence where the TWA L1011s, DHL 727s and other great old birds stand. I shot, wrote down regis and nobody bothered me, or drove by staring like I was the enemy. In fact 3 cars came by doing the same thing as me. I then drove the entire fence line to see the DC4s and Jetstreams and Canadairs and parked at the other end where there are some more 727s and a some Cessnas that are right in the street with no fence. I shot a couple and the guy there didn't stare at me or ask me why I was doing it, he waved and smiled. It is refreshing to me to be able to enjoy a day like this without the BS that you encountered today. I had that woman who walks around the park across from Inwood CC stare at me and call the cops on me last December. Though in a way I applaud the fact that people are remaining vigiliant I can't help but see that it's getting worse. Our enemies want not only to kill us but to instill fear in us. This is why I am against the fear mongers that view anybody with a camera at an airport or other locations as something to fear. Once we think like that. They win.


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1657 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

The guy sounds like a jerk - but he and any other member of the public holds a pretty powerful card against photogs like us, which is the power to call the cops. I've found it's best, no matter how rude someone might be, to convince them I'm up to no harm with my photography. A couple of weeks ago I ignored a bunch of people walking past me while I took pictures from the garage at BDL. About 10 minutes later the police arrived, saying they'd received a phone call from someone reporting a suspicious guy on the roof of the garage.

User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4733 times:
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thanks for the feedback. I really should simmer down. I really think it might have been my lack of sleep. Seriously. I don't know what it was but between my lack of sleep and this guy closing in on my personal space, You know, I was actually pretty close to smacking him in the head with my lens as I panned.

Okay -- perhaps I'm the only person here who may have thought that the person was perhaps INTERESTED in what they were doing, versus being a sarcastic sod.

Phil was completely chill as I walked away and he chatted briefly with the guy.
But I will say that as Phil began to explain ourselves, the guy mentioned, albeit jokingly, something about calling 911. But as I said, Phil doused any chance of that.


Come the summer, be it Cros Bay , Inwood, whatever, listen up guys. WE';re bringing steaks, beer and gonna BBQ everytime we spot.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 12):
thanks for the feedback. I really should simmer down. I really think it might have been my lack of sleep. Seriously. I don't know what it was but between my lack of sleep and this guy closing in on my personal space, You know, I was actually pretty close to smacking him in the head with my lens as I panned.

Sounds like an interesting encounter, he sounds like he got a little too close. I would establish some contact with either a "Hi" or a smile before questioning someone.

I also think people are picking up the phone a little way too fast.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 12):
Come the summer, be it Cros Bay , Inwood, whatever, listen up guys. WE';re bringing steaks, beer and gonna BBQ everytime we spot.

Seared steak and Phil's favorite beer. Yuengling. Sounds good to me.  yummy 


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

You used to be able to see the twin towers from JFK. It's not just that New Yorkers haven't forgotten (who has?!), but rather, it's something that's on their minds often, especially around airports. Considering how much Americans in general complain about something they think is suspicious without ever investigating or calling it in, I almost have to commend the guy for approaching you. In such a case, I think a simple "we're planespotting" would have sufficed.

But, I wasn't there. Maybe the guy was a jerk.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

The bigger question, did you get the World MD11 when it departed JFK?

User currently offlineTin67 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 268 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
and walked to within 3 feet of me, asking, 2-3 times in quick succession, "What are you doing?"

If someone came up to me and said that I would be less polite in reply too! It sounds to me like the guy had attitude and a simple "Hi" or "Excuse me" before diving in with "what are you doing?" wouldn't have gone a miss.

If poeple are polite then I return the gesture, if they are a-holes then whilst not being rude or offensive I am less than forthcoming.

Cheers
Martin


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 1):
I'd probably have told him to "f*** off" and mind his own business. It's bad enough security getting clever, let alone passers by.

Seriously? Maybe that's why plane spotters have such a bad rap with the general public.

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 2):
Doing a Dick Cheney comes to mind

What Dick Cheney apparently said on the floor of the Senate was something of a national disgrace. It's probably a sign of the times when people actually want to emulate such behavior instead of challenge it.

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 3):
you should have kept on tracking the aircraft pretending you hadnt seen him then smacked him over the side of the head with the lens if he was so close

I actually thought most people stopped throwing tantrums before they leave elementary school.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 4):
There are tons of people out there who have *no* concept of Aviation Photography as a hobby, and sometimes it requires some explanation..

 checkmark  100%

Quoting JeffM (Reply 7):
If you were shooting with Phil, why worry?

No kidding. I'm sure the guy now has a much better understanding of plane spotting and a nice little postcard to go along with it.  Big grin

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
I also think people are picking up the phone a little way too fast.

How can you pick up something "a little way too fast"? Either it's a little too fast or it's way too fast, right?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

I'm not sure how we can make a judgement with half the story. Should the guys have been in that parking lot shooting? Was the tow away "stranger" an employee who had a genuine right to know what they were doing in that lot?

From my experience here in the UK, most parking areas do have restrictions as to what you can and can't do, especially when they are close to an airport. Even if a blind eye has been turned to your activities in the past, it doesn't mean that you have right to be there. Maybe in the US it is different?


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Maybe that's why plane spotters have such a bad rap with the general public.

Or maybe it's because of a few guys who "took charge" of a few aircraft four years ago?

I'm still failing to understand this guy's problem though and I stand by my initial statement. If I'd been so rude to the point of being threatening, I don't think I could have been surprised to be met with that response.

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 3):
you should have kept on tracking the aircraft pretending you hadnt seen him then smacked him over the side of the head with the lens if he was so close

I actually thought most people stopped throwing tantrums before they leave elementary school.

 brokenheart  there goes my checkmark. too many ignorant vigilantes floating around anyway. how would he have liked if mirrodie went up to him while he was attaching the hook to the car ''why are you stealing that car! why !! why are you doing it!!!!!!!'' people cant just mind their own business, very unbritish  snooty 


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4532 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
What Dick Cheney apparently said on the floor of the Senate was something of a national disgrace.

I may be wrong, but wasn't he referring to the shotgun incident? LOL


User currently offlineTomTurner From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 247 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4528 times:

The guy that approached Mario was not exceptionally difficult except in his initial approach. Phil was able to send him on his way in less than a minute.

As to the parking lot though, it is well off the airport property and there is no question it is public access. It was probably concieved as a rest stop initially (off CrossBay Blvd) or access to the Jamaica Bay bird sanctuary. Or perhaps it was always a fishing stop.

In the summer the lot can be packed to capacity (which would be about 40 cars off the top of my head). There is another lot on the opposite side of the road and that holds about the same number of cars. Port-o-sans (sp?) are set up in the warmer months and there is often a snack truck there as well.

Many folks who stop there are going fishing off the side/walkway of the nearby bridge to Howard Beach proper. Many others are of an Eastern Faith that throws coconuts into the water in what appears to be a religioius rite of some sort.

On this day a gentleman was flying a kite with his son.

By and large you can and have to be patient to "explain the hobby" to whoever asks whether they are rude or not. I have done this countless times and several times in one day before. But I think some people that have not been through the worst of this might not understand we do have to deal with people from time to time that are either very confrontational or alternatively just glare at you from a distance. It can be very challenging to put these folks at ease.

To give you an example, I was in that very same spot as Mario a couple of years ago and one guy came running up "into my face" demanding to know what I was doing. While "explaining the hobby" to him he said that he was a member of a local "militia" and they would do something about me.

Another time - at Bayswater - I was surrounded by young group of Hasidim - about 15 or 16 "youths" that circled me and began asking rapid fire questions and attempting to paw at my camera. - "Where did you buy the camera?", "what do you think of Israel?", "what is your opinion of Bush?", "Where do you live?" etc. [Air Force one was about to depart in this instance, but I am unfamiliar with this branch of the secret service I encountered that day...] And, yes this was a public park -- far from the airport.

The fact is, right through about 2003 in most of the New York area, you could shoot from points far from the perimeter or even within the airport with very few problems. The incessant fear mongering through the media has changed all that.

Tom


User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Our enemies want not only to kill us but to instill fear in us. This is why I am against the fear mongers that view anybody with a camera at an airport or other locations as something to fear. Once we think like that. They win.

Truest statement I've heard/read all week.



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Seriously? Maybe that's why plane spotters have such a bad rap with the general public.

Maybe I have missed something but how do we have this bad reputation with the general public? What seperates us from people that take pictures of wildlife? Or Sporting events? Absolutely nothing. When I hear the 9/11 card played it just means that Al Qaida is winning. It means that we are living in fear. By all means I realize that certain things changed after that day but to constantly have to deal with such as encounters like Mario's is very disappointing. My ISP encounter was really an eye opener to the fact that not only do civilians have this knee jerk reaction but so does some law enforcement. It is a sad but like I said before, this attitude just confirms that the terrorists have achieved more than killing people on 9/11, they have instilled fear that seems to grow over four years later.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 4):
There are tons of people out there who have *no* concept of Aviation Photography as a hobby, and sometimes it requires some explanation..

100%

You can't be serious, there are many things that I have no concept of. I don't walk right up to someone, invade their space and need a detailed explanation of what they are doing. This isn't communist Russia, this is America. What is next? Having the Gestapo come up to me and having to show my papers? Give me a break. If someone has a camera and are pointing it at something, chances are they are taking pictures. Leave them alone.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
How can you pick up something "a little way too fast"? Either it's a little too fast or it's way too fast, right?

Thanks for the English lesson. I will make the correction  vomit 

Quoting Willo (Reply 18):
Should the guys have been in that parking lot shooting? Was the tow away "stranger" an employee who had a genuine right to know what they were doing in that lot?

Why wouldn't they be allowed there? Of course they are allowed.

Quoting Willo (Reply 18):
From my experience here in the UK, most parking areas do have restrictions as to what you can and can't do, especially when they are close to an airport. Even if a blind eye has been turned to your activities in the past, it doesn't mean that you have right to be there. Maybe in the US it is different?

Thank God yes, in America it is.

Quoting TomTurner (Reply 22):
To give you an example, I was in that very same spot as Mario a couple of years ago and one guy came running up "into my face" demanding to know what I was doing. While "explaining the hobby" to him he said that he was a member of a local "militia" and they would do something about me

Another sad commentary to the fact that Al Qaida is winning.


25 Post contains images Mirrodie : You know what? He might as well have been coming right up to me as I was took some pics of that very bird. But got it! Bap Rap? I respectfully disagr
26 JAT74L : It's only happened to me once. I began with a gentle "and you are?" and ended, unfortunately with something like "go f*ck yourself with the bell end o
27 Mirrodie : Now John, the reverse happened. So how did hte gntle appraoch end up so , ahem, abrupt?!
28 Flyer732 : Excellent! We aim to please, hope it came out well.
29 Post contains images NIKV69 : John I like that one! Straight and to the point. Insert trumpet here
30 JAT74L : It was some old guy walking his dog. I was at EDI alone and he came past asking why I was "tresspassing" (there is no law of tresspass in Scotland).
31 Post contains images LH526 : Now what if THAT becomes the saying / proverb of the year! "Doing a Dick Cheney " .. hillarious! Mario LH526
32 Post contains images NIKV69 : LOL No problem John, you are allowed. I like the way you coordinated the trumpet remark with the approaching jet. Again we see nosy busybodies invadi
33 JAT74L : Hey Nick, In the country where "fat bastard" is sometimes used as a term of endearment, then telling someone to "go forth and multiply" is no big deal
34 DC10Tim : Interesting comment. Judging by the way some people overreacted to my initial post, I'm wondering if there is some cultural difference coming into pl
35 Post contains images NIKV69 : Hey he got Heather Graham in bed! He is ok in my book! I agree John, you did ok in my book.
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