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Newspaper Printing Quality  
User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

Not really aviation photography but photography all the same... You guys know more than most so here goes.

I do regular weekly work for 2 newspapers (ice Hockey photography). Plus also one national magazine. The problem is this.

The photo's on the newspaper print often come out soft and of poor quality. Blurred non clear. In general pretty cr#p. The magazine ones are spot on..... Reading Scott Kelbys excellent books it states the DPI for for a high end printing press should be 212. This i have started using but it seems to have made little impact.

Am i right in thinking thats its just a crap printing press at the newspapers. But that seems to not gel as i cannot see both papers having problems. Also some weeks the newspaper photos seem ok. Also other prints in the paper seem ok ???? It seems it luck of the draw !!!!

I think the problem may be that the paper may be resizing them to suite their page spread. But would this have a major effect of print quality.

Over to you guys  

BTW here's an example of the work so i know the photo's are ok. Well i have been to the A.Net School of photography ......



Simon C

[Edited 2006-03-10 10:35:52]


Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Hi Simon,

Tut tut thats BAD_CENTER lol. Just kidding. The DPI of 212 seems fine and if the original shot is sharp enough etc etc then it shouldn't be an issue at your end. I'm sure you have checked your shots at 212DPI at 100% and they are fine? How did you get yourself shooting at these events? Its something i'd love to get my teeth into but dont know how to go about getting some work.

Regards
Colin  Smile


User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

Well i got into it with 20 years of watching ice hockey in the UK and getting to know a lot of people. Im very involved in my local club "Slough Jets" for whom im their official photographer. I do all the photography for them. Programes , website photo's including my own gallary , all promo + paper & magazine work.....

Its a lot of work for very little return but i love the sport.

You would be amazed how big ice hocey is in the UK and its in fact the biggest indoor sport in the UK. Most clubs alreay have a photographer but the standard varies greatly. There are 8 teams in the top league and the 13 teams in the second & then minor league teams which there must be at least 50+ teams min....... My team Slough Jets are 2nd in the 2nd division. And get crowds up to 1200 people..... The Div one teams like Sheffield/Nottingham/Belfast etc etc can get crowds in excess of 5000 !!!!!!

Simon C
 Smile



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

Good stuff Simon. The Belfast Giants have a huge following over here. I've never been to a game before though i'd love to go. Do you think its worth my while contacting papers and magazines etc to see if they have anything to offer me? Though not having any experience in a photography role of any kind apart from it being my hobby, are my chance not pretty slim?

Regards
Colin  Smile


User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

Belfast Giants are already cover by IMHO the best Hockey sports photgrapher in the country. Sorry but the guys name escapes me but he is Pro and has been involved in sports photography at the highest level (Olympics,F1)for many years. The guy is good......Very good !!!!!!

Sorry to say i would think your chances are very limited while he's covering the Giants.  Sad

Cheers
Simon



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

I meant in general, all sports, or even for other work. Dont think I could live up to that name just yet! lol

User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

Quoting LHRSIMON (Thread starter):
The photo's on the newspaper print often come out soft and of poor quality

Just ask the guys who actually do the printing.

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

I did ask the paper already Jan but they told me the Papers were printed at another printing office. I tried but i just got some man saying "we just print what they send"  Sad

I was just hoping someone here would give me some possble pointers. Or had come accross the same problem....



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1653 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Simon,
Many years ago I did a lot of photography of Basketball for newspapers and magazines, not disimilar to what you are doing.
I had exactly the same problems, though mine were all black and white, they were good quality in the magazines but poor in the paper.
I eventually sorted it out by speaking to the printer for the Newspaper who asked me for much higher contrast images. Once I did that things went much better. Speaking to the person responsible for dealing with the images is a good step forward.

Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Thanks Mick

I will give that a try and hope i get a bit further this time and get some success.  Smile



Thanks
Simon C



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Quoting Linco22 (Reply 5):
I meant in general, all sports, or even for other work. Dont think I could live up to that name just yet! lol

Its worth a try to always contact the sports editor for a paper.. Local papers are always looking for photographers who can give free photo's of local football/sports etc etc.... If your lucky they will start to see your work. If its of good quality they may start to use your work on a regular basis. If your very lucky they may even start to pay you. But dont hold your breath as local papers are always very short of money.

The spin off for all the freebie work is all the photo sales etc etc from team mate/parents/fans etc etc from the teams you become involved with. Plus all the while its good exposure for you.

One thing i will say is take photo's of a sport you enjoy. As in my case i was always at the Ice Hockey anyway. But now me and my family get in for free. I get the best seat in the house (in the penilty box). Plus i get all the photo sales on the night..... But then the club now get 2 x 2 full page spreads in the local papers. Better coverage in the national magazine. A website with photo's and a gallery. And also a new photo each week for the programme....

All in all everyones a winner  Smile
Simon C



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Sorry to hijack this thread, BUT, I have to say something...

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 10):
Its worth a try to always contact the sports editor for a paper.. Local papers are always looking for photographers who can give free photo's of local football/sports etc etc.

First of all, you'd want to go through the photo editors, not the sports editors.

And, please, why on earth would you give your photos away? Most reputable papers have set freelance rates, you should simply say "I'm interested in freelancing for XX paper, what do I need to do to get some work?"

If you start for free, why the hell would they start to pay you to get the SAME results? That makes no sense!

As for printing quality in papers, you have to remember ink on the paper bleeds, quite a bit. It's a lot like printing on kleenex...it's very hard to do. Also, newsprint is grey. Magazine paper is white. Color looks far better on white paper than it does on grey paper.

In short, you really shouldn't be applying ANY unsharp mask to the photo, the paper's pre-press folks will do that. If you hit it with your own settings, and then they run their settings through, chances are it'll look worse than before. Just make sure your shot is sharp to begin with, and you'll be set.

There are a couple reasons though that the photos might not look good. One, the paper's register is off (one, two, three or all four plates are not aligned). If, say, the cyan plate is off, it'll look really blurry. Two, the paper's printer is terrible. Or maybe your paper's pre-press folks aren't really doing their job. There are a bunch of masks, settings and all that other fun stuff that is applied before your image appears on the page. If you don't do all this stuff, your images can really suffer in print quality.

When I send images out to papers, they go out at 10" (sometime 8" if I'm on a very, very tight deadline and need to keep the file size low) on the long side, at 200dpi. Magazines get 300dpi. No USM, but I do try and edit the pictures to get the colors right--it makes editor's jobs easier.

I can get a lot more technical if you want, but just remember newspapers aren't magazines (they don't pay as much either!). Your photos will almost always look much better in magazines than they do on newsprint.

And, if you're wondering, I've freelanced for papers around the country. I currently work for one in Arizona and my images have appeared in magazines and papers around the world. Of course, each paper's printing procedure is different (and most likeley totally assanine). This is just general info on what to do. The most important thing to remember: the less you do to a picture, the better. And, don't add USM! It can really drive the pre-press folks crazy.


User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

Forgot to add, it depends on where the paper comes from in the printing run. For example, sometimes the closer to the middle of the run the better the quality (if you get a paper, say around 25,000 of 75,000 the pictures might look better).

Also, that picture you posted needs more contrast. Bring both the right and left sides of the levels sliders in. Don't use the brightness/contrast "feature" to do that either.


User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

Thanks Chrisair thats some really usefull info...  Smile

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 11):
First of all, you'd want to go through the photo editors, not the sports editors.

I have always delt with the sports editors for the locals. And the editor for the national magazine. I have never delt with a photo editor. May be the papers i deal with don't have one  Smile

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 11):
And, please, why on earth would you give your photos away? Most reputable papers have set freelance rates, you should simply say "I'm interested in freelancing for XX paper, what do I need to do to get some work?"If you start for free, why the hell would they start to pay you to get the SAME results? That makes no sense!

As i said im involved with the club more than the papers themselves. I do what i do more to help the club rather than make money out of it. I make a bit on the side which is nice. But my main goal is to help the club. My job is not a freefance photographer. Its just a sideline doing something i enjoy. As for getting payed , i cannot hold the papers to ransom by saying unless they pay they wont get any pictures. As there are a few other photographers with far poorer photos who the paper would be happy to use if i ever went away. All they would do is run a far smaller spread on the team each week. Which is something i or the club do not want. As i said the club look after me very well and i make a bit so im happy. Its not really worth upsetting the applecart just to make a little bit extra.

Once again thanks for all the info on printing etc etc. Its very helpfull....

One question. What size is the best to send. Of course there is some cropping involved. But whats the best pixel size to send the papers...

Many thanks
Simon C
 Smile

PS : What form of photography do you freelance. Sport,News,celebs etc etc



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 13):
What size is the best to send. Of course there is some cropping involved. But whats the best pixel size to send the papers...

You'd have to ask your editors...the sports folks are probably clueless to this, so that's why you should probably develop a relationship with someone in photo, be it the director of photography, the assistants, etc. They'll help you out.

It sounds like you're in a smaller market, so they may not exist, but just ask for the person in charge of photos.

That being said, 10 inches is the "norm." Well, at least it is over here. That translates into 2000 pixels on the longest side at 200dpi. Just constrain your crop in photoshop to 10in and 200dpi and you're all set. Don't crop the photo, then size up to 10in. It can really make it look bad.

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 13):
What form of photography do you freelance. Sport,News,celebs etc etc

I shoot sports, mainly. Although I do work on some news and news features. I try to stay away from celeb photography though. I got away from aviation after Sept. 11 after security became too much of a hassle.


User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1483 times:

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 14):
I shoot sports, mainly. Although I do work on some news and news features. I try to stay away from celeb photography though. I got away from aviation after Sept. 11 after security became too much of a hassle.

Thanks again that cropsize/dpi is very helpfull. I will make it my standard for newspapers from now on....  Smile

What sports do you follow. Any Ice Hockey ????



Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Quoting Linco22 (Reply 3):
Do you think its worth my while contacting papers and magazines etc to see if they have anything to offer me?

Hardly. The way you should go if you're really interested: Is there anything you have to offer them?

They'd hardly just take you with them to a shoot just because you tell them you're doing it as a hobby but would like to get more serious. You've got to do the work. Build a portfolio showing off what you can do.

Visit some events. Doesn't have to be the big Champions league match of Arsenal (as you won't get credentials anyway), maybe some youth football or other school sports?

Then show the paper what you have to offer.

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 12):
Don't use the brightness/contrast "feature" to do that

 checkmark  ...a lot more quality and data loss than with adjusting curves.


Cheers,
F.



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineNscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

Is it only your photos that look blurry in the paper, or is it all the photos?

I second cropping to 10 inch (long side), 200 dpi. That's pretty standard for newspapers. It doesn't sound like the papers you are dealing with are large enough to have dedicated photo imagers (since they don't even seem to have photo editors) so you'll probably want to get your photos ready for publication yourself. Talk with the designers or night editor (or someone who deals with the press or preparing the paper for press) and find out what they do to the rest of their photos so you can try to match that.

And blanket statement like don't use USM aren't really true. Sure, the larger papers and magazines don't want it since they want to do everything themselves from a nearly untouched photo, but use it, just don't overdo it. Even Chrisair uses USM. He just doesn't want you to know that...

Saul


User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

Quoting Nscaler (Reply 17):
Even Chrisair uses USM. He just doesn't want you to know that...

Damit, you found me out. At least my photos are sharp to begin with...

Anyway, what Nscaler said is true....use usm, just don't overdo it. I should have been a little more clear--don't go hitting it with 400% or anything. Try and stay under 150%

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 15):
What sports do you follow. Any Ice Hockey ????

I shoot pretty much anything that's a sport. I used to play ice hockey, and unlike Nscaler, I can actually shoot ice hockey. This year though, I've only shot one game--I'm doing more college basketball.


User currently offlineNscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Quoting Chrisair (Reply 18):
I shoot pretty much anything that's a sport.

Have you ever shot curling? Big grin

And its true... Chris can shoot ice hockey better than I can. But that's it.

Sigh.

Saul


User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1396 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

I was actually asked to photograph a big basketball game for a player I knew when I had never done anything like it before. I said I could do it and had to learn on the job as it were at a very important game. I pulled it off, just about, and took some of my best ever images at that first event.
Why ?
Because I did not give a sh*t about the game, only the photos.
The first photos were successful so I was asked again and again and again and my techniques got better and better, but not my photos as I came to love the game. It is difficult to watch for the images whilst trying to watch the game too. I got better at anticipating the action, seeing the slam dunk coming for instance, but following the ball, the action, became more of a challenge.
I think that is what sets us amateurs apart from the pros.
Perhaps something we should think about at our next airshow ???

Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Saul only wishes he could shoot like me...

Quoting Dendrobatid (Reply 20):
I got better at anticipating the action, seeing the slam dunk coming for instance, but following the ball, the action, became more of a challenge.

Ah, now that you've found the action...try and find something beyond it...that, my friend, is what really separates pros from the amatures.

Right Saul?


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