Blackened From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1908 times:
I would say it's OK if only Johan looks at the pictures. That's more or less the sense of that list: It doesn't need too much screening and there are no loads of bad quality pics. But I hope Johan does look at all the pictures from the travel list and makes a rejection if necessary.
If you look at the que and you see there are no pictures processed in front of you but there are still pictures added you can easily guess who's on the travel list. It also worked with the date. When it took two weeks for a picture to be processed but there were pics taken two days ago the photographer must be on the travel list.
Granite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5550 posts, RR: 65 Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1891 times:
>>>Fair would be to have all people treated the same way, but considering that all photographers will be screened before their upload would it still be possible to have new photos added every day?<<<
New photos will be still added every day. There is now a button that has been added to the screener page to allow direct upload of 'High Quality Images' I think this will come into force once Johan is confident that the screeners can handle this option well.
Yes, Johan has the ultimate say if a shot if kept or rejected.
Again, the travel list was set up for Johan to work on while he was away on business/holiday. This was to keep things ticking over.
Now that we have very capable screeners, maybe the time has come for Johan to give up the travel list?
The ultimate goal is for Airliners.net to carry on being the biggest quality aviation photography website on the net
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1877 times:
For fairness and application of identical standards across the board, the persons on the travellist should be screened by the sceeners as well.
The travellist might then also be abandoned, especially if the queue stays low (this morning it was back to over 1000, that is I assume without the travellist).
One concern might be that the screeners are likely on the travellist themselves. Noone profits by people screening their own photos. Some sort of filter should be provided to prevent that (plus maybe implement a way to make the screener not see the name of the photographer).
Eduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1877 times:
I am certainly on the travel list. I have no objections if my photos were checked by the screeners. As they probably take more time to check the photos I would even prefer this idea. QUALITY is more important than QUANTITY. I am always glad to get some advices for improving (I hope they will do so).
Only one thing should be considered for artistic shots: if the scan is ok the photo should be passed over to Johan for the definite decision and not be bombed out, because the screener don't like it.
CYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1866 times:
Here it is since my own topic just got archived:
It just occured to me that it would be in everyones best intrest to abolish the travel list. That way people who have trouble getting thier photos accpeted wouldn't have to wait for weeks on end to get their photos processed...only to find out they've been rejected. Im not ranting since I have 3 pics in the database but I think it would eliminate some of frustration that alot of people have been expressing these last few months.
I know it's Johans site and he can do what he wishes(and I respect that) but I dont think people who have thousands of pics in the database and have no trouble getting theirs should recieve special treatment since for them aceptences are nothin special.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1858 times:
Good point, Eduard. Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this.
A chopped nose or tail are OK with me, but I got a noseshot rejected for esthethics only, which IMO should be up to Johan and noone else. I think others have similar experiences.
F27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1847 times:
Why should people who have been loading photos here for years be suddnely treated the same as everyone else. They have had to do the same at a time when this site was not so popular and helped to make this site what it is today. With out these people it might be dead and buried. No i think with these people they should get the treatment they deserve as they have made this site. They have done and proven what a lot of other people cannot and that is place high quality photos with the minimum of warnings. So some poeple one day might stop complaining about the travel list and get on with doing some good photos instead of whinging and whining about why my photos never made the grade
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1840 times:
F27, afraid of loosing preferential treatment?
I have nothing against the people on the list, or most of their shots (though the occasional substandard ones do get by).
As I see it there are 2 options open at this time: either Johan changes the upload FAQ that reads "everyone is treated equally" or the travellistmembers do indeed get the same treatment as everyone else.
If the screeners are doing a good job, which is for Johan to decide, only shots of equivalent quality to those from people on the travellist will ever make it to his screen, so the purpose of having a group of people that can be checked on from substandard equipment quickly will be gone.
Maybe for emergencies the list should be maintained as a backup (for example, all the screeners for some reason don't do a job for a week leaving Johan without a supply of photos to upload) but such situations should be rare.
F27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1833 times:
I am saying these people have been here from the start and have proven themselves now it is up to the new breed to do the same so i recon they should get better treatment. this site has only taken off in the last 12 months a lot of these people have been coming since the beginnning and have made this site what it is. So when the new breed get it right then they will also be given the trsvel list treatment but it is like all young ones today want it all without having to do the hardballs.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1826 times:
Thanks for calling me young
The travellist was created not to honour these people, but for technical and business reasons. Those reasons no longer exist so unless the meaning of the list is changed into some sort of " official mark of excellence" there is no reason to continue it.
That is what I meant, and I think Gary as well.
CYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1827 times:
No offence but the quality of the photos from the first two years (1998 &1999) really isin't that good. Hell I could produce the same on my crappy flatbed. Getting those photos acepted when the standards were still low was no problem. The fact is that it didnt take any balls to get photos on the database back them(or at least it dosent look like it too me) whereas getting them here now takes some serious hardballs and equipment. Just because the travel listers submited a bunch of 640x480 pics with max compression then dosent mean they should get any special treatment now. Anone struggling now could have dont the same back then.
KingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 20 Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1817 times:
How practical would it be to do some kind of partial screening of submissions?
By this I mean that newbies would be 100% screened and then, as they pass some quality / rejection milestones, the percentage of their pictures which are screened decreases. Ultimately this percentage could go down to 0 [which is where the existing travel listers would start].
Likewise, failing to meet the standards would increase your screening percentage.
Complex I know, but it would seem that this allows those who are on the list to keep their elevated position but only if they continue to justify the reasons for their inclusion. Likewise the allegations of favouritism would disappear since the only reason you're on/off the list would be as a result of your submissions.
I think the phrase is 'You're only as good as your last picture'
Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 659 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Makes no odds to me if I'm on the travel list or not - I upload when it suits me, if they're good enough they get in, if they aren't they don't. Whether it takes 2 days or 2 weeks is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not a steady flow of new images is possible without a travel list. The travel list, as I understand it, is not for the benefit of a few photographers, but rather a few hundred thousand visitors who expect to see something new each time they arrive at the site.
To those who seem to find the travel list offensive, well, life isn't fair. Get used to it. To those who fear removal from the travel list - tough. Any professional photographer will tell you, you're only as good as your last assignment. Each shot should be judged on its own merits.
What matters here is whether or not the travel list stills serves a purpose for the site as a whole or whether there are better alternatives.
But whatever happens, there will still be people bitching about how long they have to wait or someone getting preferential treatment. Please grow up.
George From Netherlands, joined Apr 2000, 115 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1811 times:
I'm on the travel list (I think).
The travel list is an instrument for Johan on busy hours as explained many times. If the skills from the pre-screeners are high enough than it doesn't matter who's photo's he takes, they are all of the same quality.
So the reason for the list is gone and the fair system first in first out wil happen.
Oke then I also have to wait but I don't care I know the mails.
Screener4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1805 times:
JTwenting wrote: "Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this"
Johan has asked us to screen in this way, and that's what we are doing. The original remit for the screeners was to attempt to get rid of the huge backlog of photos waiting in the queue, and was quite clear. We were to weed out all the obviously susbstandard pictures from the queue. However, this remit has subsequently changed at Johan's request, and we are now expected to apply standards when screening pictures that are closer to Johan's own. He has given us guidance on a number of issues since we began screening, and that includes certain pictures that clearly do not make it because of aesthetic qualities, and also now the "common" rejection reason.
I notice that even though the screeners are being more strict in what is allowed through (again, I stress this is at Johan's request), the number of comments and emails saying "you have unfairly rejected my picture" has gradually decreased. This tells me that, in the main, we are getting the rejection standards roughly right.
As to screening the travel list (getting back to the TOPIC!): I am one of the screeners who has said I would be happy to do so. However, I do have a concern that there are people on the T.L. who are used to getting virtually all their pictures added to the db. And I can see a potential problem for *us* if we start rejecting the odd pics, in that some of them might be of the opinion "who is this screener who has only been doing the job for 5 minutes? What does he know about photography - I've been taking pictures and submitting them with no problems for years".
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1791 times:
Didn't get that broadening of your authorities, I guess. Must have happened either while I was away or the annoucement got swamped and I did not see it.
If the people on the travellist are afraid to have their shots screened by you, there is all the more reason for that screening I'd guess
P.S. Can some more clarification be given on the "common" reason. Does this include all shots at the same location or only shots in the same position (e.g. would a departure shot be common if a 'standard' rampshot is already in the system?).
Screener4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1790 times:
Remember, we're not talking about getting *rid* of the travel list, just whether the pictures in it should be screened before Johan sees them. This shouldn't make much difference to the vast majority of these pics being added to the db, nor the amount of time it takes to add them. We are just talking about these pictures being viewed by the screeners to weed out any that are obviously poor quality (where have I heard that before? )
Now, Johan has already talked about the possibility that the screeners will eventually be able to add obviously high quality pictures directly to the db. So if the travel list pics are almost all of high enough quality, then here's another idea. How about the screeners screening the travel list pics separately from the rest, and each pic can either be given an "OK" or a "?" rating with a checkbox. Johan can then review these, paying particular attention to those that the screener has a question-mark over. In time this could be extended so that the travel list pictures that are obviously OK would be added directly by the screeners, and those that are questionable can be reviewed by Johan (kind of the opposite to the way the existing screening works).
25 Screener4: JT: the common reason is for borderline shots that are of a common aircraft. For a long time it has said on the upload-FAQ that it's easy to get rare
26 Tappan: Just a couple of points... 1.) If any photographer on a.net has a shot that he/she thinks is - A.) Timely due to it's news value. I.E An incident, not
27 AKE0404AR: Mark wrote: "2.) Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is go