Sponsor Message:
Aviation Photography Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Screening The Travel List  
User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 64
Posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2370 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

A controversial subject maybe.

The screeners, Johan and myself have been discussing the possibility of the screeners screening the travel list.

There are some of us for and against it.

I would like all your thoughts on this, particularly for those who may think they are on the travel list.

Regards to all

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland




63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Oh boy, we start with the travel "VIP list" again......

Who are the ones on the travel list. Will they be outed now?

It was a while back when the travel list issue came up and Johan said that only experienced photographers who have uploaded for a long time are on this list.

He hardly has to give out warnings or rejections.

Fair would be to hv all people treated the same way, but considering that all photographers will be screened before their upload would it still be possible to have new photos added every day?

It's up to Johan as it is his site.

Vasco Garcia





User currently offlineBlackened From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

I would say it's OK if only Johan looks at the pictures. That's more or less the sense of that list: It doesn't need too much screening and there are no loads of bad quality pics. But I hope Johan does look at all the pictures from the travel list and makes a rejection if necessary.
If you look at the que and you see there are no pictures processed in front of you but there are still pictures added you can easily guess who's on the travel list. It also worked with the date. When it took two weeks for a picture to be processed but there were pics taken two days ago the photographer must be on the travel list.


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2089 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi Vasco

>>>Fair would be to have all people treated the same way, but considering that all photographers will be screened before their upload would it still be possible to have new photos added every day?<<<

New photos will be still added every day. There is now a button that has been added to the screener page to allow direct upload of 'High Quality Images' I think this will come into force once Johan is confident that the screeners can handle this option well.

Yes, Johan has the ultimate say if a shot if kept or rejected.

Again, the travel list was set up for Johan to work on while he was away on business/holiday. This was to keep things ticking over.

Now that we have very capable screeners, maybe the time has come for Johan to give up the travel list?

The ultimate goal is for Airliners.net to carry on being the biggest quality aviation photography website on the net

Still lot's to think about.

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Well as I was the one who bought the subject up in the first place I would say screen them just like all the other shots submitted. That way were all be playing to the same rules.

Judging by the turnaround time of the screeners its not going to effect the daily upload by Johan and anyway their shots are so good they wont be rejected will they?  Laugh out loud

The travel list members wont be worried or should they Vasco?  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards

Paul

Thanks for listening Johan and Screeners to my initial post on the matter.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

For fairness and application of identical standards across the board, the persons on the travellist should be screened by the sceeners as well.
The travellist might then also be abandoned, especially if the queue stays low (this morning it was back to over 1000, that is I assume without the travellist).

One concern might be that the screeners are likely on the travellist themselves. Noone profits by people screening their own photos. Some sort of filter should be provided to prevent that (plus maybe implement a way to make the screener not see the name of the photographer).



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineEduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

I am certainly on the travel list. I have no objections if my photos were checked by the screeners. As they probably take more time to check the photos I would even prefer this idea. QUALITY is more important than QUANTITY. I am always glad to get some advices for improving (I hope they will do so).
Only one thing should be considered for artistic shots: if the scan is ok the photo should be passed over to Johan for the definite decision and not be bombed out, because the screener don't like it.

regards, Eduard


User currently offlineCYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Here it is since my own topic just got archived:

It just occured to me that it would be in everyones best intrest to abolish the travel list. That way people who have trouble getting thier photos accpeted wouldn't have to wait for weeks on end to get their photos processed...only to find out they've been rejected. Im not ranting since I have 3 pics in the database but I think it would eliminate some of frustration that alot of people have been expressing these last few months.

I know it's Johans site and he can do what he wishes(and I respect that) but I dont think people who have thousands of pics in the database and have no trouble getting theirs should recieve special treatment since for them aceptences are nothin special.


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2064 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi Eduard

In my eyes, you would have nothing to worry about  Smile

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Good point, Eduard. Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this.
A chopped nose or tail are OK with me, but I got a noseshot rejected for esthethics only, which IMO should be up to Johan and noone else. I think others have similar experiences.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineCYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

Jwenting:

lol, I though this topic was about " possibility of the screeners screening the travel list". I didn't read your post.


User currently offlineB-OTCH From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2057 times:

I think the fair way would be to screen/upload the pix in the order recieved. That way there would be no need for a "travel" list (or "favorites" list as i call it).

If their pics are always good anyway, I dont see what difference it would make.

Some people wait up to a month, while others have their photos up in a matter of hours. Something has to be improved. Its good to know ya'll are thinking about it.

B


User currently offlineF27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Why should people who have been loading photos here for years be suddnely treated the same as everyone else. They have had to do the same at a time when this site was not so popular and helped to make this site what it is today. With out these people it might be dead and buried. No i think with these people they should get the treatment they deserve as they have made this site. They have done and proven what a lot of other people cannot and that is place high quality photos with the minimum of warnings. So some poeple one day might stop complaining about the travel list and get on with doing some good photos instead of whinging and whining about why my photos never made the grade

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

F27, afraid of loosing preferential treatment?
I have nothing against the people on the list, or most of their shots (though the occasional substandard ones do get by).
As I see it there are 2 options open at this time: either Johan changes the upload FAQ that reads "everyone is treated equally" or the travellistmembers do indeed get the same treatment as everyone else.
If the screeners are doing a good job, which is for Johan to decide, only shots of equivalent quality to those from people on the travellist will ever make it to his screen, so the purpose of having a group of people that can be checked on from substandard equipment quickly will be gone.
Maybe for emergencies the list should be maintained as a backup (for example, all the screeners for some reason don't do a job for a week leaving Johan without a supply of photos to upload) but such situations should be rare.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineF27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

I am saying these people have been here from the start and have proven themselves now it is up to the new breed to do the same so i recon they should get better treatment. this site has only taken off in the last 12 months a lot of these people have been coming since the beginnning and have made this site what it is. So when the new breed get it right then they will also be given the trsvel list treatment but it is like all young ones today want it all without having to do the hardballs.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Thanks for calling me young  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The travellist was created not to honour these people, but for technical and business reasons. Those reasons no longer exist so unless the meaning of the list is changed into some sort of " official mark of excellence" there is no reason to continue it.
That is what I meant, and I think Gary as well.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineUlvar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

F27

You have a BIG point there....

Andreas


User currently offlineCYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

No offence but the quality of the photos from the first two years (1998 &1999) really isin't that good. Hell I could produce the same on my crappy flatbed. Getting those photos acepted when the standards were still low was no problem. The fact is that it didnt take any balls to get photos on the database back them(or at least it dosent look like it too me) whereas getting them here now takes some serious hardballs and equipment. Just because the travel listers submited a bunch of 640x480 pics with max compression then dosent mean they should get any special treatment now. Anone struggling now could have dont the same back then.

User currently offlineKingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Guys,

How practical would it be to do some kind of partial screening of submissions?

By this I mean that newbies would be 100% screened and then, as they pass some quality / rejection milestones, the percentage of their pictures which are screened decreases. Ultimately this percentage could go down to 0 [which is where the existing travel listers would start].

Likewise, failing to meet the standards would increase your screening percentage.

Complex I know, but it would seem that this allows those who are on the list to keep their elevated position but only if they continue to justify the reasons for their inclusion. Likewise the allegations of favouritism would disappear since the only reason you're on/off the list would be as a result of your submissions.

I think the phrase is 'You're only as good as your last picture'  Big grin

J



Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 730 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Makes no odds to me if I'm on the travel list or not - I upload when it suits me, if they're good enough they get in, if they aren't they don't. Whether it takes 2 days or 2 weeks is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not a steady flow of new images is possible without a travel list. The travel list, as I understand it, is not for the benefit of a few photographers, but rather a few hundred thousand visitors who expect to see something new each time they arrive at the site.

To those who seem to find the travel list offensive, well, life isn't fair. Get used to it. To those who fear removal from the travel list - tough. Any professional photographer will tell you, you're only as good as your last assignment. Each shot should be judged on its own merits.

What matters here is whether or not the travel list stills serves a purpose for the site as a whole or whether there are better alternatives.

But whatever happens, there will still be people bitching about how long they have to wait or someone getting preferential treatment. Please grow up.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineGeorge From Netherlands, joined Apr 2000, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Hi guys,

I'm on the travel list (I think).

The travel list is an instrument for Johan on busy hours as explained many times. If the skills from the pre-screeners are high enough than it doesn't matter who's photo's he takes, they are all of the same quality.
So the reason for the list is gone and the fair system first in first out wil happen.

Oke then I also have to wait but I don't care I know the mails.

Just my two cents,
George Polfliet



User currently offlineScreener4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

JTwenting wrote: "Screeners were under the original idea not meant to scan for "esthethics (sp.)", yet they are doing this"

Johan has asked us to screen in this way, and that's what we are doing. The original remit for the screeners was to attempt to get rid of the huge backlog of photos waiting in the queue, and was quite clear. We were to weed out all the obviously susbstandard pictures from the queue. However, this remit has subsequently changed at Johan's request, and we are now expected to apply standards when screening pictures that are closer to Johan's own. He has given us guidance on a number of issues since we began screening, and that includes certain pictures that clearly do not make it because of aesthetic qualities, and also now the "common" rejection reason.

I notice that even though the screeners are being more strict in what is allowed through (again, I stress this is at Johan's request), the number of comments and emails saying "you have unfairly rejected my picture" has gradually decreased. This tells me that, in the main, we are getting the rejection standards roughly right.

As to screening the travel list (getting back to the TOPIC!): I am one of the screeners who has said I would be happy to do so. However, I do have a concern that there are people on the T.L. who are used to getting virtually all their pictures added to the db. And I can see a potential problem for *us* if we start rejecting the odd pics, in that some of them might be of the opinion "who is this screener who has only been doing the job for 5 minutes? What does he know about photography - I've been taking pictures and submitting them with no problems for years".


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1998 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

Thanks for all your comments so far on this thread.

Please remember...........it's only a discussion at this moment in time. No decisions have been made.

Regards to all

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Didn't get that broadening of your authorities, I guess. Must have happened either while I was away or the annoucement got swamped and I did not see it.
If the people on the travellist are afraid to have their shots screened by you, there is all the more reason for that screening I'd guess  Innocent

P.S. Can some more clarification be given on the "common" reason. Does this include all shots at the same location or only shots in the same position (e.g. would a departure shot be common if a 'standard' rampshot is already in the system?).



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineScreener4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Remember, we're not talking about getting *rid* of the travel list, just whether the pictures in it should be screened before Johan sees them. This shouldn't make much difference to the vast majority of these pics being added to the db, nor the amount of time it takes to add them. We are just talking about these pictures being viewed by the screeners to weed out any that are obviously poor quality (where have I heard that before?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

Now, Johan has already talked about the possibility that the screeners will eventually be able to add obviously high quality pictures directly to the db. So if the travel list pics are almost all of high enough quality, then here's another idea. How about the screeners screening the travel list pics separately from the rest, and each pic can either be given an "OK" or a "?" rating with a checkbox. Johan can then review these, paying particular attention to those that the screener has a question-mark over. In time this could be extended so that the travel list pictures that are obviously OK would be added directly by the screeners, and those that are questionable can be reviewed by Johan (kind of the opposite to the way the existing screening works).


25 Screener4 : JT: the common reason is for borderline shots that are of a common aircraft. For a long time it has said on the upload-FAQ that it's easy to get rare
26 Tappan : Just a couple of points... 1.) If any photographer on a.net has a shot that he/she thinks is - A.) Timely due to it's news value. I.E An incident, not
27 AKE0404AR : Mark wrote: "2.) Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is go
28 Post contains images Tappan : Vasco, We miss ya here in BOS MG
29 Jwenting : Thanks for the clarification S4. I'd love to shoot those specialties, sadly they never show at AMS for some reason (which is the only place I visit du
30 Granite : Mark wrote: "Screener(s) of the "Travel List" should not know whose photo is being screened (this "anonymity" already may be happening which is good)
31 Post contains images Sukhoi : The travel list screen follows the same format of the other screen for uploading. For those of us that dont upload/screen does that mean you can see w
32 Granite : Hi all What I meant to say was that ALL photographers names are visible in the upload screening process. Regards Gary Watt Aberdeen, Scotland
33 Round_Engine : I'm guilty of being on the "Travel List". I thought that the pre-screening was set up to weed out the obvious "problem pics". Am I correct assuming th
34 Craigy : Hi, I would prefer one or two screeners to be empowered to add pictures when Johan is away. That way we would still get pictures added, but everyone w
35 Jwenting : Ralph, that was the original idea, but if you read the other posts, you will find their authority has now been broadened to do an almost complete scre
36 Post contains images Mirage : My opinion, if it counts for anything , is that I agree with the screeners screening the travel list as long as they don't screen their own photos. Ag
37 Joe pries : "Agreeing with others, lately I'm seeing photos of lower quality from the big names" ========== just curious- which lower quality photos from the big
38 Mirage : Joe, is not a matter of scanning quality but of subject. It's my opinion, I'll not tell names, sorry. I'm talking about some repetitive compositions b
39 F27 : I agree with Round Engine some of the people here just cannot help them selves. Because they have a few rejections and are not taking high quality sh
40 ADG : Your discussion makes no sense to me. The prescreeners were tasked to limit the amount of lower quality prints that Johan needs to weed through to get
41 Post contains links and images B-OTCH : i just posted earlier in the week about one from frank schafer: Click for large versionPhoto © Frank Schaefer here one of yers i think is joe, pl
42 Blackened : I can see trouble arriving after BOTCH's post! But those pics are definitely something we should think about and there are more of them. It's Johan's
43 EDIpic : Quote from Granite: There is now a button that has been added to the screener page to allow direct upload of 'High Quality Images' I think this will c
44 Post contains images B-OTCH : Sorry, I know I'm gonna get a can of whoop ass opened on me, but Joe asked. Where I'm coming from is, we all take some bad shots now and again. But, s
45 Blackened : Yeah, I saw Joe asking for low quality shots by him but in his eyes they are quality because he uploaded them and Johan thinks the same. I wonder what
46 B-OTCH : I agree Blackened...a fair way would be for no one to see who the photgrapher is...but is it possible? I hope this wont get locked or deleted either.
47 Post contains links and images Cathay111 : What an interesting topic indeed! But where do I start?! The whole idea of the "travel list" seems to have escaped some people. It is not a list of "p
48 Ckw : One point that seems to have been forgotten is that being on the travel list is not certain acceptance. It is, as Johan has described it elsewhere, it
49 Post contains images Cathay111 : The screeners were put there for that task (reducing the queue). Now if they were able to screen AND upload those people on the travel lists photos th
50 Joe pries : Others have been telling the same, I don't understand why did you choose me ======== Luis, I didnt choose you for any reason other than you said yours
51 Tappan : Oh Oh, what happened to this thread.. Thoughts from my home perch (5 miles from the threshold of Boston's Rwy4R)..... #1) Craig Murray has the coolest
52 Joe pries : b-otch, in regards to the shot with the fence- i disagree with you that this is a substandard or shoulda been rejected shot- that is not a photo I upl
53 Blackened : I think we know (I know) what the travel list is there for and I must admit that our discussion has gone a bit off-topic now. But it still is very muc
54 Blackened : Too many people participating!
55 Tappan : a.net cap....No way!!! I want a.net pajamas. You know, the kind that has socks already knittted in. Or Boxer/briefs with Jumbo Jets imprinted on the b
56 Da fwog : I'm on "the list", and I still get shots rejected. They're usually for "bad aesthetic qualities", and hardly ever for bad quality though. I am at a st
57 Blackened : As I've said somewhere before: Great attitude Chris!
58 Joe pries : If you guys wanna talk about crap pictures, come see me some time, i've got about 12 shoeboxes very full of slides that are wastes from my first years
59 Post contains links and images Cathay111 : Blackened, No offence taken mate! One question. You wrote:- "Craig: Don't you think this is a bit about equipment (how can you improve a lot without i
60 Cathay111 : Can we have a "WORST EVER PHOTO" category..... I've boxes full that I'd like to submit as well!!!!!!! Please!
61 TomH : Very good photographers are quite capable of producing very poor pictures. The work of those on "the list" should be held to the same standards as eve
62 Post contains links and images Tappan : I will show pictures I took with a fairly cheap small zoom. Why, because I think it is unfair when I see posts attributing good photos with good equip
63 Granite : Hi all I am going to archive this thread now as there is enough information for Johan to go on when he decides 'IF'.......remember 'IF' the travel lis
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
I Can Get On The Travel List posted Thu Jul 26 2001 12:25:56 by EGGD
I Thought The HQ List Was Gone? posted Tue Feb 26 2002 01:30:18 by Scooter
Don't We Have A Travel List Anymore? posted Fri Dec 14 2001 19:21:30 by Blackened
Adding Non-travel List Photos... posted Mon Nov 26 2001 10:36:42 by YKA
Screeners Let Loose On Travel List posted Thu Sep 27 2001 13:07:11 by Administrator
Travel List And Prescreening posted Thu Jul 5 2001 15:24:39 by 9A-CRO
The Process Of Screening Debate posted Thu Sep 14 2006 14:10:59 by Psych
The Priority Screening posted Tue Aug 29 2006 16:42:43 by AirMalta
Q. About The Actual Screening Process? posted Thu Apr 20 2006 22:34:38 by Phxplanes
The List Needs Updating...again... posted Sun Apr 16 2006 06:05:38 by DLKAPA