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New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!  
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Well I went spotting today with my new 70-200 2.8 IS, and the results were... not bad - but not quite what I expected for a $1,800 lens. I guess it's time to ask for help!

Here are a few samples from today - these are more or less straight out of the camera (except for a crop, resize and a LITTLE tweaking in Capture One). Sorry they are so big (1600 wide), but I wanted to show the grain and fuzz I'm getting with these settings:







I can't figure out how to copy the EXIF data in Capture One, so here is a rundown of the settings portion of it:

Canon EOS 20D
Firmware 2.0.2

EXPOSURE:
Shutter Speed: 1/1600
Aperature: f4.5
Max Aperature: f--
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Mode: Manual
Flash Mode: Flash did not fire
Metering Mode: Pattern
Drive Mode / Self Timer: Continuous
Exposure Compensation: 0.00
Flash Compensation: +2.00
ISO Speed Rating: ISO 100
Focal Length: 200mm
Auto Focus Mode: One Shot
White Balance Setting: Auto
Color Space: sRGB
Subject Distance Range: --
Subject Distance: unknown

File Info:
RAW, 6.585mb
3504 x 2332

I was using IS in mode 1 for all shots, in AF (far) mode. There is no filter on the lens, but I was using the hood.

OK I'm guessing I've got the camera settings all FUBAR, and honestly I still don't have a clue what I'm doing with aperature settings. Does this lens have a "sweet spot" that I should shoot for? Or is it best to try to keep it at 2.8 all the time? Was 4.5 too much?

The EXIF data above is for the UA 733 shot. The other two were had the following differences, all other settings were the same:

The BA 744 shot was at 1/1000, f5.0, focal length 78mm.
The UA 744 shot was at 1/1250, f5.0, focal length 200mm.

I tried a couple shots at f2.8, and got similar results (grainy, etc).

If anyone knows what settings I should use on the 20D, I would GREATLY appreciate it!!! I'm going back to ORD today to go spotting with Syncmaster, and would like to fix these issues before then (if possible!!)

Thanks for your help!

Drew   wave 

Edit: Click on the images to see them full size...

[Edited 2006-04-05 09:28:19]


I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

I think you maybe using the lens at it's softest spot down at 2.8 - 5.0. Most lenses are sharpest around f8 - f11.

Also, do you need IS on with shutter speeds of 1/1600th?

Edit: Where was the sun in relation to you. The photo's appear to be backlit a little!

[Edited 2006-04-05 09:39:01]


Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

those look like shit  Smile

No need to shoot it so fast and wide...I would be aiming for something around 1/500 and f/8.

Also, it might help if the sun is to your back  Smile


User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Use a slower shutter speed. This will give you a smaller aperture, therefore greater sharpness and depth of field. Try to keep the aperture around f/7.1 to f9.

With that lens at full zoom and in IS mode you can safely shoot at 1/200th of a second.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineWalter2222 From Belgium, joined Sep 2005, 1300 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Hi Drew,

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
I was using IS in mode 1 for all shots

On my lens (100-400mm) the IS mode1 is for steady shots, while the mode2 is for panning shots (I assume you were following the movement of the aircraft). Have you tried the mode2 as well?

I would also change the auto-focus setting to servo AF (I cannot do that on my 300D) since you have a 20D, that works much better for flying aircraft.

Best regards,

Walter



canon 340d ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l is usm - ...
User currently offlineJay767 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

1/1600 sec. is absolutely insane.1/500 for a lens without any IS.
You have IS and could go lower.I turn IS off until I go below 1/400.



User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Royal I gotta hand it to you, you are full of all that is true but completely useless, and you're damn proud of it. Good job dude!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineEWS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Is there any need for that? You started somewhere remember.. when you got your first super dooper lens i bet you had a few crap shots until you got used to it.. give the guy a break.. so nice to see crew members putting folks down..


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
Auto Focus Mode: One Shot

Only use that for stationary objects Drew. AI Servo is for moving objects. Also, I agree with Royal, you are way to wide on the aperture for that distance and get your shutter down to around 1/500. I'd like to know how you came to those exposure settings as well.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5343 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Lighten up EWS!

I consider Andrew to be a friend, so I don't think I am 'putting him down'

After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4703 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5310 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):

After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

Might want to watch out with comments like that......

(especially with Canon's known for less grain then Nikons...)



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineVasanthD From India, joined May 2005, 450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5309 times:

Hi Drew,
Happy Belated Bday!

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
with my new 70-200 2.8 IS,

I thought you would get a new Wide angle lens...  Smile

Anyways, yea... You seem to use the Manual (M Mode) in your 20D with fixed AV and TV. Change it to AV Mode and let the camera decide what shutter speed is appropriate. the 70-200 2.8L IS is an excellent lens... Narrow the aperture and set the focus point to center with AI Servo and you would see a smile pop up with every photo.

Have fun with your new glass  Smile
Regards,
Vas



One Lucky shot deserves another!
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5302 times:

Quoting EWS (Reply 7):
Is there any need for that? You started somewhere remember.. when you got your first super dooper lens i bet you had a few crap shots until you got used to it.. give the guy a break.. so nice to see crew members putting folks down..

That little smiley after the comment says it all. Relax!  Wink

Quoting JRadier (Reply 10):
(especially with Canon's known for less grain then Nikons...)

Yeah, grain might be better at ISO6400 but who here shoots at 6400. That's like shooting approach shots at f4.5 1/1600, who the heck would do that  Wink

Mike


User currently offlineVasanthD From India, joined May 2005, 450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5292 times:

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 12):
Yeah, grain might be better at ISO6400 but who here shoots at 6400.
I guess you mean 3200. I dunno if Canon bodies have ISO > 3200...

Regards,
Vas

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:56:12]


One Lucky shot deserves another!
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 13):
I guess you mean 3200. I dunno if Canon bodies have ISO > 3200...

I used 6400 as a joke, not meant to be fact  Wink

Mike


User currently offlineVasanthd From India, joined May 2005, 450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 14):

I used 6400 as a joke, not meant to be fact

Stupid me...  boggled   Wink

--Vas



One Lucky shot deserves another!
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Gee Royal, tell me what you REALLY think!  yell 

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

As I've mentioned, I already have a Motorola camera phone - which is pretty much the same thing.  duck 

By the way folks, it's true - Royal and I are friends (despite his Nikon habit), so these cheap shots at each other are not a problem at all. Besides, he's just jealous (have you garage-saled your nikon shit yet Royal???).

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 11):
I thought you would get a new Wide angle lens...

My 70-200 F4L is on E-Bay as we speak, it ends tomorrow. I plan to cash that in for a 17-40L. The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted, so I went for the big dawg. I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year!  bigthumbsup 

OK regarding the lens issue - I went back and checked my camera settings, and it seems that my "custom functions" were out of whack. The camera was adding in some sharpness, contrast and saturation - which I set back to "zero". Also, I will try AI focus.

As for aperature, I'll try shooting in the 7-9 range, in aperature priority. I guess I always thought that a faster shutter meant sharper pictures. Appearantly I was wrong there!  dopey 

Thank you all for your fast answers, I'll do some shooting today and upload some samples tonight when I return to FWA.

Drew  wave 

I'm kinda surprised Jeff hasn't sounded off to remind me that only amateurs use RAW.... duck 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Drew,

How do the pictures look edited? You can tell a lot from the raw picture from the camera, but let's face it almost all digital pictures need to be edited to some degree.

I concur with the recommendations for the settings. I have just recently switched from AI Focus to AI Servo, and the jury is still out. The biggest thing to get used to in servo mode is that there is no beep when it locks on (although the focus zone flashes).

cheers,
Phil

[Edited 2006-04-05 19:46:21]


HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3767 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Hey Drew,

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted

And you ended up with a 70-200 2.8???  banghead   cheerful 

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
The camera was adding in some sharpness, contrast and saturation - which I set back to "zero".

These parameters don't have any impact on the file when shooting RAW at all.

I'm sure you'll get happy with your new toy!
cheers,
F.



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5205 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Grain. Such a measurebator term.

How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Anyways it's okay that most of you shoot Cannon. After all, Nikons (like a Girard-Perregaux watch, foie gras, and Chat La Mondotte) are an acquired taste.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year! bigthumbsup

That one puts a smile of my face.....don't ya'll love those American girls!
It's all about diamands and perls!

VG.

p.s. the 70-200 f2.8 is a killer lens, try aperture prio for a while, f6.3 or f8 and check the results....you should be doing fine then!


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Aviation or otherwise?  Wink


User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
My 70-200 F4L is on E-Bay as we speak, it ends tomorrow. I plan to cash that in for a 17-40L. The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted, so I went for the big dawg. I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year!

If you throw the diamond AND wife in the lot you'll probably get enough for a 600mm f4 L, think about it!  devil 

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Four out of my five most popular pictures are ISO 800 or 1600  Wink

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4703 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Try very low light photography or Theather....



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
25 Post contains images Staffan : Question you should be asking yourself is how many of you shoot any less than ISO 200 Add some ND filters to that list
26 Post contains images AndrewUber : Escargot and Haggus are acquired tastes too - and I won't be feasting on snails or lung anytime soon either. Let me say two things about her - One sh
27 Post contains images JeffM : Raw is for amateurs.. Sorry, couldn't resist. I understand why people shoot RAW, don't get me wrong...I just can't stand the extra work, and seldom n
28 AndrewUber : I soooo saw that one coming!!! Way to go Jeff - so I'm not the only one!! Just for that, welcome to my RR list (finally)!
29 Post contains images Jat74l : Mmmmm..... Haggis! John
30 JRadier : Jeff uses Small and normal JPG quality :P
31 Post contains images JeffM : Heck no, there may be a few others I would hope. I'd pick out the damn things for her myself, it's just she does such a better job. Well thanks Drew,
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