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What's Wrong With This Shot?  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

I'm a little baffled by this rejection. Would you guys mind giving me your critiques? I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...5_DTW_031806_N374NB_DSC_0813_2.jpg

is my personal screening somehow off?
Thanks,

Damon


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28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

A bit soft, perhaps?


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Exposure?

 scratchchin 

/JM



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User currently offlineInterpaul From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 409 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Maybe too grainy?

Jan


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Now, my question is, are those guesses at why this shot was rejected, or are you fairly certain?

I just noticed that this was rejected by a screener in training, so the email says "If you have any objections please do not hesitate to use the appeal function linked to lower down." I was pretty sure this shot would get accepted, so I was obviously surprised. I hate that we have to appeal and risk lowering our acceptance rates further like this.



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User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
are those guesses at why this shot was rejected, or are you fairly certain?

Yes and no, respectively.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4366 times:

My guess would be quality.

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4362 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 6):
My guess would be quality.

the catch-all rejection.



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User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

What reason was it?

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4359 times:

I see problems with grain, and a little over-exposure perhaps where the sun is glaring. Quality is not peaking on this example.

However, it is not centered horizontally. So my vote is badcenter.

cheers,
Phil



HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

You have had 10 replies.

Spill the beans!



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting Jan Mogren (Reply 8):
What reason was it?

Quality, centering, and grain.

The reason I resisted was because I want fresh opinions, not primed ones. It's easy to say "oh yeah, there's grain" when someone told you it was rejected for grain.

I can't say I understand any of the three.

[Edited 2006-04-15 19:07:10]


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User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4321 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I can't say I understand any of the three.

Do you see the grain on the right-hand-side engine and underwing (where it is shaded)? Not desireable.

Also, there is more space in the picture in front of the nose than behind the tail. Thus, the badcenter.

Given the brightness of the shot, I would guess this was not taken on a low (e.g. 50-100) ISO setting.

Hope that helps,
Phil



HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4310 times:

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 12):
Also, there is more space in the picture in front of the nose than behind the tail. Thus, the badcenter.

I hadn't noticed that but now you point it out it sticks out like a sore thumb. I really respect the screeners for being able to spot things like that. I guess it's easier to spot when you are "in the job".
 

I guess we are looking at the aircraft itself rather than everything else going on in the shot.

[Edited 2006-04-15 19:36:40]

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4299 times:

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 12):
Do you see the grain on the right-hand-side engine and underwin

Thanks Phil for your comments.

I see the grain now, but I had to look at it from an inch away from the screen to see it. It's an unfortunate fact of DSLR shooting that there will be noise in the shadows. I shot this at ISO 200 (the lowest on a D70), and since Neat Image is the devil around here, I really don't know what the screeners want us to do.

As for centering, if this is a reason for rejecting, that's very upsetting. The distance from the front of the fuselage to the edge is 0.142, while the distance from the back of the fuselage to the edge is 0.138, according to CS2. If I centered on the end of the horizontal stab, there would be a lot of empty blue to the right, making the whole thing feel like it was leaning left. Honestly, I think a centering rejection is somewhat tacky here.

As for quality... that could be literally anything. Do you have any thoughts on particulars?

Would you like to take a stab at it? I can send you the RAW file if you like.

I know my tone sounds awfully critical in this thread, but want you to know I really do appreciate your help.  Smile



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User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4285 times:
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If you sharpen on a layer you can then gently (low opacity) erase the sharpening in shadow areas. I've found this helps a lot with minor noise/grain. Or even try the blur tool in the same places.

Terry



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User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Thanks C133. I went back and did that. What do you think of the edit?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/D_L_X/DTW%20Mar18/DTW_031806_N374NB_DSC_0813_3.jpg



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User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
As for centering, if this is a reason for rejecting, that's very upsetting. The distance from the front of the fuselage to the edge is 0.142, while the distance from the back of the fuselage to the edge is 0.138, according to CS2. If I centered on the end of the horizontal stab, there would be a lot of empty blue to the right, making the whole thing feel like it was leaning left. Honestly, I think a centering rejection is somewhat tacky here.

Centering is a common reason for rejecting, so you had better get used to it in this playground.

Big version: Width: 976 Height: 651 File size: 472kb
DLX_edit


Here is an edit showing tight cropping, which is normally preferred. I also brightened up the shadows 10%. Finally, 50% USM at 0.3 radius. This is just a quick job, and you should probably re-do the photo incorporating the technique that Terry mentioned.

cheers,
Phil



HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offline9VSPO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 17):

That's too tight on the nose.  Wink


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Hi all,

Sorry Phil, but I don't like that extremely tight crop. In my opinion, the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.
So if Damon's original crop was badcenter at all, it only needs a slight amount of cutting on the nose side, in my opinion.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 6):
My guess would be quality.



Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
the catch-all rejection.

Would be nice if they could clarify this rejection with more specifics...

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Quality, centering, and grain.

Looks like they already did.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 17):

I don't think it needs any sharpening like you've just done, just very lightly lower the noise in the sky and kick the contrast. Excellent starting point I think.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):
the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.

Absolutely. But it seems that the screeners don't agree, and I feel that our artistic license has been revoked in that respect.



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User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):
Sorry Phil, but I don't like that extremely tight crop. In my opinion, the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.
So if Damon's original crop was badcenter at all, it only needs a slight amount of cutting on the nose side, in my opinion.

Yes, I did cut it a bit close on the nose, eh? Anyways, this is a matter of taste to some degree, and illustrates the necessity of centering the subject. I've never had a single rejection for badcenter using this technique.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Hyde



cheers,
Phil

[Edited 2006-04-15 22:05:51]


HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
it seems that the screeners don't agree

Well, sometimes they do.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong




The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
25 D L X : Just got another rejection. This new screener is killing my ratio. *sigh*
26 PUnmuth@VIE : Dirty. 1 cm from the top border. Go up a vertical line from the rear cokpit window and you are there. Peter
27 Ptrjong : Phil, our two shots (nice antipodes) prove that, like I've said before, the screeners are usually not harsh in centering issues. I think the centering
28 Post contains images Philhyde : Very nice shot Peter. Based on my experience here, I'd say that screeners most often prefer tight crops. There are always exceptions, as screening is
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