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NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!  
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3956 posts, RR: 22
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Oddly enough I saw this on the IAH Spotters site yet nothing here (unless I did not go far enough back in my search for this story here). While it only effects NJ, it could have a domino effect on to other states, who might enact similar legislation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iahspottersclub/message/26337

Scary stuff.

Thomas


"Show me the Braniffs"
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11357 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Well, that's extreme...

Why don't they just ban TRESPASSING? Oh wait, they already have. Why don't they just enforce TRESPASSING?

I hope this bill doesn't become law in NJ or anywhere else. If you live in NJ, it's time to send a letter. Seriously! Your elected officials will listen.



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User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1326 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

It's like anything - you can stick all the laws you want on the statute book but the main points are:

i) whether you can enforce the laws, i.e. have enough resources, etc, and,
ii) whether laws will prevent or deter the behaviour you are trying to curb.

How you prove observation (!) I couldn't say!


User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

In my opinion this is a typical American knee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.


South Australian Spotter
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3956 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

Unlike the BAA authorities at LHR?

More Bad News For LHR (by LHRSIMON May 10 2006 in Aviation Photography)

Let's not make a blanket statement about a given country because a couple of legislators are on a power trip. Hopefully the good people of NJ will bombard their local state representatives in Trenton with with e-mails, letters, phone calls, ect.... opposing this proposed bill.

Thomas

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
In my opinion this is a typical American knee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11357 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
Americans have to learn to use their brains.

I'll remember that next time we land on the moon.

Don't forget, photography is Banned at CDG.



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User currently offlineBeechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 41
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 5):
Don't forget, photography is Banned at CDG.

By the way, is there any news from CDG, i thought a group of spotters was in negotiations with the authorities...

However, i didn´t really have a problem i was there last time and i was standing directly in front of a camera...

Denis



That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12568 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2306 times:
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Quoting Beechcraft (Reply 6):
i was standing directly in front of a camera...

I find photography easier from behind the camera. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong. wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

This sounds like a nightmare for all spotters & journalists. I'm not an expert on the U.S. Constitution, but doesn't the 1st amendment grant the right to assemble peacefully & freedom of the press? Could this apply here if the bill is challenged in court?

Thomas


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11357 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting TS (Reply 8):
doesn't the 1st amendment grant the right to assemble peacefully & freedom of the press?

No. The first amendment protects an action only if it is "expressive" and even then only in limited ways. (Burning a draft card, for example, while clearly expressing a dissatisfaction with the war was still illegal under the first amendment when Congress banned the mutilation of draft cards - the dude was still allowed to stand on a podium and SAY "this war is bad.")

The problem here is that NJ is banning an action, not an expression. Don't worry, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking about ways to attack the constitutionality of this law.



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User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
In my opinion this is a typical Americanrnknee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.

Ryan,
Without commenting on whether or not I think the proposed legislation is a good idea, let me make several points;
1. This action is be proposed almost 5 years after 9/11. I would hardly call that knee jerk.

2. With regards to our American brains, if I merely use the various winning Nobel Prize categoriesrnover the last 100 years as a simple measurement, the US 100+ to the Australian 7 gives a telling indication of our "brain ability".

3. I daresay that if your Harbor Bridge and/or Opera House had been removed by terrorist actions, there may be a different thought process down under right now.

In any case, we can argue left and right about rights and freedoms, etc, but unless you have been an elected official and have felt the weight of responsibility of protecting the people as a whole, I don't think you can entirely understand why a politician would propose something like this. Just looking at the second guessing that is still occurring in London over the train bombings (todays news) is a good indication as to why these kinds of proposals will continue to surface. No politician or civil servant wants to be the face on the front of tomorrows paper with the question of "Why didn't they protect us?" below it.

Bottom line; let's not allow this to get into a country bashing rant. It doesn't accomplish anything, and the issues being discussed are well beyond individual country borders.


User currently offlineMartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
Americans have to learn to use their brains.

At times as this, and many others, yes..... Spreading fear among the public and using useless measures to combat the "terrorists".....



Chelsea Football Club supporter.
User currently offlinePHL27RPhotog From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 77 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2135 times:
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Good news for now, thanks to news media and other groups complaining the New Jersey legislature shelved the bill. That likely means it's dead. Looks like it's safe to keep shooting in NJ (Like you can shoot at EWR and TEB without hassle anyway).


BillShullPhotography
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3956 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting PHL27RPhotog (Reply 12):
Good news for now, thanks to news media and other groups complaining the New Jersey legislature shelved the bill. That likely means it's dead

Indeed, great news!

Quoting PHL27RPhotog (Reply 12):
ooks like it's safe to keep shooting in NJ (Like you can shoot at EWR and TEB without hassle anyway).

Perhaps, but at least you won't be locked away for 18 months for taking a picutre of an airplane, dam, power plant, ect....

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
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