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My First Photo's Were Rejected.... Help!  
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6199 times:
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Hi all. I've been a member on A.net for just over a year now, and I enjoy it very much.

I've recently been given my first digital camera, and I'm using it as much as possible!!

I've recently tried uploading my first pictures to the A.net database, and they were both rejected (one is still to be looked at). Here are the links:

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...lename=20060604_ANetOACMyPlane.JPG

This one is a kind of dark and dreary day, so I'm not too worried about that one, but the second one I thought was fairly good.......

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...in?filename=20060604_AnetDGCWC.JPG

Reasons given were quality and motive...........

Your help and ideas please?


I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

The stairs, and the fence in front of the nosewheel - and the general clutter - kill the second one on motive.

The quality is just not there in the first one.

What camera did you use? Did you use digital zoom on the first shot? The logo on the fin looks a bit strange.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6176 times:
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Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
The stairs, and the fence in front of the nosewheel - and the general clutter - kill the second one on motive.

Ah, OK. What can I do about it? If I just crop it, it takes out half of the aircraft. Any suggestions?

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
The quality is just not there in the first one.

OK Fair enough. What exactly is wrong with the quality? It's a fairly dank day.

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
What camera did you use? Did you use digital zoom on the first shot? The logo on the fin looks a bit strange.

The first one was taken with an Olympus 5060 or something like that (Dads camera) and the second one was taken with my sisters Olympus little camera, not sure of model.

All future photos I will have taken with a Konica Minolta Dimage Z6, 6.0 megapixels.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineEadster From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2216 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

I agree with Viv, kill the second one, its not going to star here. One for the personal collection. Motive would have been because of the covered wheels

The first one could be saved but I would have to look at the original to be sure. Your edit is very jaggered and needs work but still nice shots of the old bird.


User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6172 times:

As Eadster has said, there are a lot of jaggies on the first one. It is very dark underneath, and yet the top of the rear fuselage is verging on over-exposed.

You need to start editing from scratch on the original. With careful sharpening and a bit of work with the Curves tool it might have a chance.

The second shot has no chance, don't waste time on it.

Don't get discouraged. Standards are high here and rejections are a fact of life.

[Edited 2006-06-05 12:07:32]


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6170 times:
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Quoting Eadster (Reply 3):
The first one could be saved but I would have to look at the original to be sure. Your edit is very jaggered and needs work but still nice shots of the old bird.

Ok....... Problem then...... That IS the original!!!!! I haven't edited it, and in answer to your earlier question Viv, no I didn't use digital zoom.

I'm not sure how to go about editing the photo..... how do I do that?



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6160 times:

If this is the orginal photo, why is it then so small? If it's really that came straight out of the camera, I think you can forget about it then.

However, if you did resize the orginal, and then send it, without editing, then it maybe has a chance, but, we have to see the real orginal if this isn't it.

Maybe you used a wrong setting in the Olympus, I really think so, as I think this olympus makes much bigger orginals.

-David


User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 5):
I'm not sure how to go about editing the photo..... how do I do that?

You need a good editing programme. The best is probably Photoshop, but it is very expensive and takes a lot of time to learn even the basics.

A good alternative is Photoshop Elements, which is much cheaper and gives you most of the basic tools you need.

Have a look at Fergul McLean's workflow - there is a link I think on the upload page here.

The things you will need to do are: adjustments to Levels and Contrast; Levelling; Cropping; Resizing; Sharpening.

You will get plenty of advice here on how to do those things.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6148 times:
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Quoting Aero145 (Reply 6):
However, if you did resize the orginal, and then send it, without editing, then it maybe has a chance, but, we have to see the real orginal if this isn't it

Ah, yes i did resize. The original was 3.84MB! I can email it to you if you like, but it'll take a while to get to you!!!

Quoting Viv (Reply 7):
The things you will need to do are: adjustments to Levels and Contrast; Levelling; Cropping; Resizing; Sharpening.

You will get plenty of advice here on how to do those things.

Many thanks, I do appreciate it.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6146 times:

Hi there!

I'll IM you my e-mail.

I use Photoshop CS, and I have a big mailbox.

Regards,
David

EDIT: And I use Photoshop CS2 in my PC, I'm in an Apple PowerBook now.

[Edited 2006-06-05 12:57:09]

User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6143 times:
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Quoting Aero145 (Reply 9):
I'll IM you my e-mail.

I use Photoshop CS, and I have a big mailbox.

Ideal....! Thank you.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6027 times:
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This one has just been rejected too......

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...n?filename=20060605_AnetDGCWC2.JPG

Quality..........?



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlinePavvyben From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6017 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 11):
Quality..........?

You got that right...that is pretty poor :S

Keep trying though  Smile

[Edited 2006-06-06 10:44:46]

User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6008 times:
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Quoting Pavvyben (Reply 12):
You got that right...that is pretty poor :S

Keep trying though

Oh. OK. What's poor about it? I thought it was the best of the 3 I've put up so far.

I like taking pictures, but I don't know that much about photography, so I'm here to leardn. Your help is appreciated, but please bear in mind I'm a photography novice, so to speak.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlinePavvyben From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 13):
What's poor about it?

Its very oversharpened or that might just be down to the quality on the yellow steps and on top of the fuselage - not enough megapixels or a not so good lens. It also looks like that a noise reduction tool has gone overkill on most of the aircraft. If you want some chance of getting it on here, you might wanna resize to something around 1024x... and not have it so big.

Its also very jaggy on the buildings straight ahead of you and again the quality is very low. Did you use photoshop to edit this? Anther thing how much did you crop that photo? If it was cropped quite alot then thats why it doesn't look very good. It looks pixilated basically

By the way, im still learning aswell, ive not got a shot on here yet, but ive got some on other sites. One thing you will learn for sure is to get the shot perfect (or near) first time so less editing has to be done on the computer and if it isn't brilliant, then editing is vital. Airliners standards are very high, so its quite a challange to get a photo on without having huge amounts of experience.

Hope this helps

Ben


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5899 times:
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Hi Ben.

Unfortunately, I fear that it must be my sisters camera that I used, because I haven't cropped or edited any of the photographs I took at Brooklands.

I have taken a few photo's her at Exeter of a few flybe aircraft, and an Air Transat A310, taken this last week with my camera, when I know how to post them before uploading, I will put them here.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5876 times:
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The A310 I mentioned earlier.......


http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/AnetA310EGTE060606.jpg



Comments please?



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlinePRM From Burkina Faso, joined Apr 2002, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

Looks like some chronic heat-haze at EXT! Overexposed fuselage too, if you can stop down the exposure a little on bright sunny days that will help. May also be blurry too.....

User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

The A310 shot is over-exposed. Are you shooting with some kind of auto programme?

There is also some heat haze distortion, and the wheels are partially obscured, which is a no-no on Anet.

[Edited 2006-06-07 13:58:51]


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5847 times:
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Quoting Viv (Reply 18):
The A310 shot is over-exposed. Are you shooting with some kind of auto programme?

No, I just didn't change the exposure.

To me, it's a good photo, the best I've taken so far, but if its over-exposed, can I edit it somehow? Change the contrast or the brightness of the picture? Or even the gamma?

Help is very much appreciated guys, thank you for all of this.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 19):
but if its over-exposed, can I edit it somehow

No. Look at the nose. The highlights are blown. There is nothing you can do.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5842 times:
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Quoting Viv (Reply 20):
Look at the nose. The highlights are blown. There is nothing you can do.

Not sure what you mean by that? Could you expain in detail about the highlights being blown? Honestly can't see what you mean.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 21):
Could you expain in detail about the highlights being blown? Honestly can't see what you mean.

The brightness of the nose is beyond the dynamic range the camera can handle. The result is a complete loss of detail, particularly below the cockpit windows - and the outline of the door in front of the logo has been totally lost. There is NO editing programme or trickery that can recover that lost detail. Some digital cameras are set up to slightly under-expose, so as to help beginners to avoid blowing out the highlights. Others are not, so you have to do it yourself.

The solution is to get the exposure correct out of the camera, not out of the PC. If you had metered off the nose cone it would probably have been ok - or if you had noted the brightness of the nose and set the exposure compensation at minus half to a full stop.

If you use "auto" exposure, the camera will take an average of the whole picture. In situations where some areas are very bright or where there is very high contrast, the result will not be good.

Also, there is no editing programme to cure heat haze distortion.

Good first effort, but the shot is a lost cause. Don't waste more time on it.

[Edited 2006-06-07 16:08:21]


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting Viv (Reply 22):
If you use "auto" exposure, the camera will take an average of the whole picture. In situations where some areas are very bright or where there is very high contrast, the result will not be good.

Actually Viv, it is not Auto that caused that problem. The exposure average you mention comes from the metering mode, (matrix, center, spot, etc.), not the exposure mode (A, P, Av, Tv, M). Full frame exposure averaging is done not only in A, but P, Av, and Tv modes. M is the only one with real control.

If Auto exposure mode was used, it most likely raised his ISO up to some degree, but it was his choice of metering that likely killed his image by "seeing" more dark areas then light causing the overexposure. Everything in the image is darker then the plane. Proper exposure for that image would require setting the exposure to read the fuselage only to prevent it from being blown out.


User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Jeff is right - my mistake. As I said, if he had metered off the nose cone (using spot metering) the highlights would not have been blown.

White aircraft in strong sunlight are always tricky.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
25 EGTESkyGod : Damn. I thought that was the best of the lot.
26 Post contains images BradWray : Charlie, You are in the same boat I was in 3 months ago. I was using a compact point & shoot camera for aircraft photography and now Its in the draw w
27 F4wso : Try to control one variable at a time. Your two main issues are 1) airplanes (our favorite subject) and 2) learning photography, and 3) post-processin
28 EGTESkyGod : OK, forget the first photo's, the one's of Concorde, they were taken on my sisters Mickey Mouse camera that should be used for holidays...... The A310
29 Post contains links PRM : Here's a couple of links that provide a good start (by ANET contributors) for the post-processing: http://rockymountainavphotos.com/Eri...cessing%20E%
30 Post contains links EGTESkyGod : Just out of interest, I also have this photo in the queue, which I took because of the heat haze, and the head on angle of a flybe Dash 8 here at Exet
31 Post contains images 9VSPO : " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...h.JPG You are kidding right?
32 Post contains images Cosec59 : I hope so
33 Apuneger : Euh....I hope that no one has to think about this for more than 0,001 seconds, in other words: remove it. It takes nothing but precious screener time
34 Lnglive1011yyz : Guys, C'mon, give the guy a break.. Did you not see in his first post in the thread that this is his first time uploading to the site? Your posts are
35 Cosec59 : It wasn't meant in malice. I realise it's his first time uploading. I feel that he should have taken a look at the quality of photos on the site and
36 9VSPO : Hang on. He's got 10 decent shots on the site and he's currently listed in the top uploaders of the day with perfectly good shots so I think he does
37 Ptrjong : I don't think so. Under which name? Peter
38 Post contains images JeffM : ...and yours are? ...let me guess...you wanna be a moderator? Completely untrue.
39 Cosec59 : I couldn't find them either
40 FlyingZacko : That's what i was thinking. I mean, if you look at his rejections you can clearly make out the name he uses to upload. But there are zero photos on a
41 FlyingZacko : If it's something rare you might be able to get it on here, but otherwise I say no chance, I don't care how good of a photographer you are. Cheers, S
42 Post contains images 9VSPO : Oops, I was looking at EDDL. *ducks for cover*
43 Post contains images Ptrjong : No need Ian, I was just very surprised that Charlie would suddenly have something like ten photos on... that took me a few months even in 2004 [Edit
44 Lnglive1011yyz : No. Definitely not. THAT, I am 100% completely sure on. Hence the "probably not" part of my post. At least mine was constructive.. This, we can agree
45 Post contains images Apuneger : Well, I didn't mean to sound negative either, but if you look at the photo I was referring to and comparing it to the quality of shots currently getti
46 EGTESkyGod : Um......... no I wasn't....... OK, gotta admit, when I left this thread last night, I wasn't expecting to get quite the flaming I got. I didn't uploa
47 Ptrjong : Charlie, I can't see the Dash 8 shot now any more. From memory, it was recognizable as a Dash 8 but hardly any detail was visible. Like a photo of a f
48 Post contains links EGTESkyGod : You can't see it now cos I pulled it from the cue after the criticism, but I will bear that in mind in future. I put it on cos I saw similar shots an
49 UA935 : I would pull the Duchess photo. It will get rejected for Quality, centred and level, it needs CW rotation. Furthermore you should consider resizing to
50 Viv : It certainly has suffered in the resizing - look at the cheatline on the nose, see how wavy it is? As I said before (in Reply 4) do not get discourag
51 EGTESkyGod : Yeah I see. It's annoying cos the original picture is the quality I want, but its 2816 x 2112 pixels, so resizing down to 1600 or 1024 pixels takes t
52 UA935 : Resizing an image to a smaller size actually improves quality. Simon
53 Norfolkjohn : As stated above resizing down to 1024 should improve image quality. If the image quality is worse it may be down to compression when you saved the re-
54 Viv : What programme are you using to resize? If it's Microsoft Photo Editor, forget it - you need something like Photoshop Elements to give you resizing (
55 EGTESkyGod : OK, you are aware those are hills and I cant make them any more level than they are!!! I've done it by trying to get the runway level..... I will go
56 Norfolkjohn : Charlie, I am well aware that there are hills in the background ! The runway is a good reference to use for levelling - it's the one I used to confirm
57 Cosec59 : Can you post the original?
58 Post contains links EGTESkyGod : Not sure how, its 2800 pixels and i don't know how to post it in a forum. If you know how, please don't hesitate to tell me!!! Ah OK, sorry. I've tri
59 Post contains images 9VSPO : This is the best I could do but the quality just isn't there in the original I'm afraid. The lighting is poor and the colours don't look natural. Try
60 Lnglive1011yyz : Your shot is certainly cleaner looking than the one that EGTES has in the queue right now.. Is anyone else feeling that it might be partially the cam
61 Post contains images 9VSPO : It's definately down to the camera and lens yes.    I don't want to put a damper on it Charlie but I doubt you will get anything on here with that
62 Dendrobatid : There is a colour cast but it is very correctable. The cast is magenta/red (pinkish) and I was able to totally correct it with 7 cyan, 12 green. I us
63 Post contains images Linco22 : mmm its been a while since i've been on, interesting comments above as usual. I had a similar camera the Minolta Z2. I tried a few uploads on here wit
64 Lnglive1011yyz : I agree with you -- only recently has my acceptance ratio started to climb a little better. Perhaps an upgrade to something a little more robust?? Yo
65 Post contains images Glennstewart : First of all.... welcome to the site. I'm on my lunch break here at work, so I haven't had time to read the many responses to your thread, but as you
66 EGTESkyGod : I think I need to play around with the settings, as you say. The shot of the Dash 8, and the A310 I took using the sporting function, because of the
67 EGTESkyGod : Um.... I know this sounds weird, but it won't let me delete WA from the queue......
68 Glennstewart : Excellent! As per usual I provide my open invitation to a tour of Sydney airport and my wonderful city. I'm sure many photographers on this site who
69 Post contains links EGTESkyGod : I left the Concorde one in the queue after a quick edit from Aero145 (thank you for your efforts, by the way, much appreciated) just in case, and it w
70 Glennstewart : Have you got a link to the rejection photo?
71 JeffM : and even after....? My thoughts are that if a screener tells you the shots are not going to make it.......Listen, and heed the advice.
72 Post contains images Glennstewart : By the way, I certainly would upload the shots you've provided above because of the things I've mentioned before: a) clutter = motive b) Concorde = c
73 Post contains links EGTESkyGod : http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ections/big/20060619_GBOACRedo.jpg
74 EGTESkyGod : Well, you did it!! My photo of G-BXWA has been accepted!! Many thanks!
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