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Unique Shot + Less Quality = Rejection  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Gurus,

I have this rejection that I'd like to get some advice on. I recognized that it was not the highest quality shot, but I thought it would be accepted nonetheless because it's unusual. I waited for about 90 minutes before a plane landed low enough to catch with the Capitol. (I figured it was like all those moon shots - lower quality, but very unique.)

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...7_DCA_052406_N382DL_DSC_2651_2.jpg

What should I do? Appeal? Rework? Paint a moon in the background? As always, your comments are appreciated!

Damon


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18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
but very unique.

It may be unique, but not rare. I agree that the quality isn't there to justify an acceptance.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
It may be unique, but not rare

Where can I find pics like it?


http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...8DCA%20%2F%20KDCA%29&daterange=200



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User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
Where can I find pics like it?

I'm not saying that they are already in the database, I am just saying that if you sit out there for long enough this motive will come up again. It is not like the old shots that can't ever be shot again, and therefore it is ok if the quality is sub-par.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Damon -

There is way too much dead space around the bottom and sides of the image, which means you could easily recrop it and actually have a better shot framing the Capitol.

Other reasons for the quality rejection would be the shot is not centered, and it is not level (leaning left).

I doubt the image is salvageable due to the heat haze, but after some tweaking - this is the type of crop I'm talking about:

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 724 File size: 314kb


Drew  cool 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineThf1963 From Germany, joined May 2006, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

and if I may throw in my comment, too:

I would try to move further to the left (or get to a lower position) so you have the Capitol building clearly visible beyond the plane. On your shot (which shows a good idea!), the view to Capitol is party covered and obstructed by the plane.

Keep on posting,
Peter



The friendly guy from rails-and-wings.de in Berlin, Germany
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2557 times:

Thanks for the comments. I don't know if the quality is going to be any better than these though. I'm shooting at 400mm, and there's still a lot of distance between me and the plane when I'm framing the Capitol in with it.

Example: uncropped at 400mm:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1..._X/DCA%20June/N382DL_uncropped.jpg

I'm standing at the water's edge, and of course, there's a river (and 13 or so city blocks) between the plane and the Capitol. If you guys have any ideas about how to improve the shot in camera as well as in editing, I'd love to hear it. I think this shot (or one like it) would get a lot of hits on a site like this.

Quoting Thf1963 (Reply 5):
I would try to move further to the left (or get to a lower position) so you have the Capitol building clearly visible beyond the plane.

Unfortunately, I don't have much control over how high the plane is when it crosses the Capitol:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...une/DCA_052406_N356NW_DSC_2659.jpg


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...44P_DCA_051006_Marine1_DSC3377.jpg (with Marine One in the background)



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User currently offlineTZ From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 1085 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2521 times:
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The shot needs to be repeated in winter, earlier in the day. The sun will be lower, at a better angle on the Capitol, and there will be far less heat haze and the air quality will be generally better. Possibly use a longer lens too.

Those existing images do not look editable to airliners.net standards to me. Sorry!

TZ



TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting TZ (Reply 7):

Great advice. Pack it up and try again in winter. Perhaps you can take up some other hobby during the summer months, like fishing or ballroom dancing.

 sarcastic 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 8):
Pack it up and try again in winter. Perhaps you can take up some other hobby during the summer months, like fishing or ballroom dancing.

Or SAVE all your money for a longer lens  sarcastic 


User currently offlineTZ From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 1085 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2355 times:
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Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 8):
Great advice. Pack it up and try again in winter. Perhaps you can take up some other hobby during the summer months, like fishing or ballroom dancing.

Yes. The light will be better, the air quality better and the lower in the sky for that self-same shot. Yes it would look better in the winter. Many photographers (including myself and those guys who do the amazing AMS sunrise landing shots) wait all year for the one or two days when a particular shot is possible. No matter what equipment you have, that's one choice anybody can make.

Ballroom dancing is a fine hobby, and good luck with that. No need to stop taking photos in the summer though - plenty of late-evening shots available this time of year which are impossible in the short days of winter.

TZ



TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
User currently offlineTZ From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 1085 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2348 times:
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Having seen (in another thread) that my intent in posting the above has been misunderstood, I will clarify that the above advice would reflect my approach to the shot (if I lived locally). I believe that maximises the chances of getting a spectacularly good shot there. In just the same way that wildlife photographers sometimes wait a year, even two or three, for a great shot to fall together.

I am absolutely NOT stating that you should do as I say (heaven forbid) and neither am I stating that you won't get an image accepted unless you do those things.

Apologies if I caused any confusion.

TZ



TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

TZ,
thanks for the advice, and for the record, I didn't take offense at your suggestion. Although, I'm not sure the weather can get much better here in DC as it has been for the last couple of weeks. The heat haze problem will still be a problem in the winter, as there is a big dark colored body of water there.

I'm going to keep trying it. Some of the shots I took that day had little or no heat haze visible (unless you're talking about the atmospheric aberrations surrounding the background, which as I said is about 2 miles away behind a river and the city "heat island" - please advise if that's what you're talking about). The solution might be to go later in the day. I'll give that a try.


Just none of you other jokers out there do this shot before I get the chance!!!  Wink  Wink  Wink



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User currently offlineGlennstewart From Australia, joined Jun 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Hi Damon,

Furthermore to Tamsin's comments above.... I think I'd like to see the original of the shot.

I must admit to being shocked by your initial shot - this isn't intended as an insult, but you've been on this site for a very long time Damon, and I expect very high standard of you. That said, I'd apply the same rejection standard as I would apply to anyone... don't get me wrong here. But my point is more that you've made some basic, rookie like mistakes that have already been pointed out.

To have more than three jump off the page in a split second is worrying for a seasoned A.netter.

a) Level
b) Colour
c) Centre
d) Oversharp (on aircraft - possibly interpreting heat haze compounded by sharpening)

Heat haze is a problem but depending upon the original, it may or may not have affected the actual aircraft - I reserve judgement for the original though.

When you finally nail this shot, I think it will do well. Mind you, it would be great to see a less common subject passing by your great "Capitol".

Glenn

[Edited 2006-06-14 05:00:41]


Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 13):
I must admit to being shocked by your initial shot

Ouch...  Wink

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 13):
but you've been on this site for a very long time Damon, and I expect very high standard of you.

I appreciate that, but let's not forget I have not had the greatest success with uploads, and I just started uploading last summer.

If you don't mind lending a hand, I'd appreciate it (for future shots) concerning your four rejection reasons -
a) level - I leveled this to the antennae structures to the right of the Capitol (yes, that's how it's spelled). Should I have used something else?
b) color - you lost me. What's wrong? I'm pretty sure I used the white balance color picker in the Camera Raw tool to get that.
c) center - At least at first, I'd have to respectfully disagree. The motive of this shot is the plane being at a particular, and unique location: Washington DC. I positioned the plane higher in the frame to allow the background its due space, as a signal of where the shot is located. (Besides that, the plane is on the 1/3rd line from the top.
d) oversharp - probable. I'm admittedly trying to save a shot that I was losing to focus. I decided to upload it only because it took me forever to actually catch a plane landing low enough to be in the same frame as the Capitol. And since few of those moon shots had a well focused plane, I didn't think that this site would care so much here.

If you want to take this off line, please feel free to email me. I can send you the raw file if you like, or you can see the unedited JPG here:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1..._X/DCA%20June/N382DL_uncropped.jpg

Thanks!



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User currently offlineATCme From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Quoting Thf1963 (Reply 5):
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...44P_DCA_051006_Marine1_DSC3377.jpg (with Marine One in the background)

Is it just me or is that paint scheme new/ rare/ old?

-Comments on the original picture:
1) HEAT HAZE- It detracts from the capitol and plane too much. Maybe ask one of the pilots to shut off both his engines prior to his final?
2) Don't cut off the top of the capitol building, it seems less picturesque... (cool word...)
I hope I helped, but then again, I'm the one who was getting help from you the other day, so take my comments as a 0% acceptance rate... LOL
ATCme  spin 



I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help. Really. Yes I'm serious, I'm here to help you.
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting ATCme (Reply 15):
Is it just me or is that paint scheme new/ rare/ old?

It's one of the new US heritage liveries.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineGlennstewart From Australia, joined Jun 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
If you want to take this off line, please feel free to email me. I can send you the raw file if you like, or you can see the unedited JPG here:

For sure! I'll have a stab at home on my screening legit monitor (and in my own time).

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
center - At least at first, I'd have to respectfully disagree. The motive of this shot is the plane being at a particular, and unique location

I understand where you're coming from on this one. The topic of motivational centre is one that the screeners have touched on more than once, and I think we will work towards a standard approach to such shots. I have a similar problem in Sydney where getting the skyline in whilst getting an aircraft in leads to motivational centre.

I'll be sure to provide an indepth reply as soon as I can.

Glenn



Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
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View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Garrard



I think the idea is pretty good to get such a view but as said, winter morning sun will give you less heat haze and better lighting on both the aircraft and the background. Give it a try again, it's a nice motive!



It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
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