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Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!  
User currently offlineB764 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 753 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3967 times:

BNSF railroad just announced they need rail fans help in keeping BNSF rails safe. They allow you to register as a rail fan and you will recieve an ID. Now only if the FAA, Local Police, etc. would see that we aviation spotters could do the same. We must do something, I for one am tired of looking over my shoulder for some type of agency to come and question me like I'm a terrorist. Any ideas on were we can go from here?

http://www.bnsf.com/media/news/articles/2006/06/2006-06-07a.html

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 2):
There are plenty of places to go around Logan Airport in Boston, for example, that are not on airport property and allow hassle-free photography.

I guess a definition of "hassle free" would be in order. I've never had any issues at Castle Island, Winthrop or Constitution Beach. But I've certainly heard stories of those who have.


User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 8):
I guess a definition of "hassle free" would be in order.

I've been stopped twice at Castle Island, both times by undercover/off-duty police officers. Both times they were courteous and I proceeded without incident. They merely wanted to know what I was doing. Once I explained, they were fine with it. The people who are getting in hot water over this seem to be the ones making a production or show out of their presence by getting out of their car where they shouldn't, or just drawing attention to themselves. Generally speaking, if you play it smart, you should never have a run-in with authorities. If you do, simply explain what you are doing...usually that's all it takes.


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 9):
Generally speaking, if you play it smart, you should never have a run-in with authorities. If you do, simply explain what you are doing...usually that's all it takes.

That's good to know. BOS has gotten a lot of bad press, but like I said, I've not had issues there. In fact, I've had some nice conversations with some of the local residents while shooting in Winthrop and Constitution Beach. The one time I shot from the Terminal B garage was one of the more tense photography expeditions I've made (I wanted to catch the Spirit of Delta 767) but if I'd gotten in trouble it would have been my own fault. Again, no problems - I did the old "grab and dash" method of photography for the one flight I photographed.


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 12):
No, it means conducting your business in a discreet way as to not draw attention to yourself. Don't advertise what your doing and you shouldn't have a problem.

Exactly. And had I been questioned by the authorities and asked to leave, I would have done so with absolutely no argument. That said, the signs in the Terminal B garage don't state that photography is illegal. They state that use of the facility is limited to patrons of the garage. My car was parked in there, and I paid a pretty penny for the privilege - that makes me a patron of the garage.


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

I think the main difference between railroads and airports and the main reason why it isn't needed in aviation is that railroads have thousands of miles of mostly unsecured track. It adds to the security of their system. I don't think this program is meant to cover switching yards or terminals which already have security. The aviation equivalent would be to say here's your ID so that you can help watch out for threats to our planes while they're in route. Airports are very secure well protected areas to begin with. The benefit to the airport from such a program is very small (if any) and it may open an avenue for terrorists to infiltrate without suspicion. The only ones benefiting very much would be the spotters. As I see it, no one with the authority to do so will allow a program like this in aviation.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineTomTurner From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 247 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 21):
Airports are very secure well protected areas to begin with.

Not really... Theres miles of chain link fences that can be plowed over by a truck or car.

The passenger terminals are well secured of course, but thats only part of the airport.

Tom


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting TomTurner (Reply 26):
Not really... Theres miles of chain link fences that can be plowed over by a truck or car.

And do you really think that they wouldn't know immediately. There are sensors along the perimeter of airports that detect these type of breaches.
Go ahead and try it. You won't get very far.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3523 times:
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Quoting Dl757md (Reply 27):
There are sensors along the perimeter of airports that detect these type of breaches. Go ahead and try it. You won't get very far.

I've never heard of sensors along fenced perimeters down here in South Florida. MIA had so many cars crash through the fence from drunks or accidents that they installed miles of concrete jersey curbs just inside the fence to keep the vehicles out. A drunk with an aviation background crashed through the fence at FLL at night and no one noticed until he drove out on the runway, at which time he realized where he was so he escaped by driving through the fence again. They caught him only because he stopped somewhere in the vicinity to check out the damage to his car. And he was certainly not the first drunk to gain access to an airfield down here because there have been numerous other incidents over the years.

If ordinary drunks in ordinary sedans can penetrate chain link fences then the bad guys in giant SUV's or trucks can surely do it.


D



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineTomTurner From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 247 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

It was only about a year or so ago some boaters came up on the bank of the bay at JFK and walked alongside the runway for some time until they were noticed.
(or was it that they were never noticed until they sought assistance getting out of the airport? can't remember).

Anyway, Cargo still largely unscreened?... illegal aliens employed at airports commonplace.... etc. etc..

Of course, its all relative... airports can't be fortresses.

T


User currently offlineJoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 811 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Interesting thread.

Did you know here in Melbourne, Australia, if you want to take photos of trains you are supposed to apply for a permit. It lasts for a month but does not cost anything.

However this has no legal basis.


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