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HDR Images (with Visible Movement) Allowed?  
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

Mainly directed at the screening team:

In case you are familiar with HDR images, is it within the rules to upload them (especially with visible movement), or will they get an editing (or whatever) rejection?

Example photo (won't upload it, it just illustrates the topic perfectly):

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 425 File size: 149kb
HDR sample photo


Thanks i. a.

Flo


Jet Visuals
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2035 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Cue several 'what is HDR' posts....

I think it's okay, I'd like to see some in the DB, just out of curiosity more than anything else.


James



It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Hmm... I don't know exactly what you mean by HDR. Do you mean multiple exposure?
Looks cool...


Somebody once did a shot like this with an airplane and I don't think it was accepted here. I've never seen something like it in the Q in my days of screening though. Not sure about the rules, perhaps a headscreener can comment.

Eduard

[Edited 2006-07-03 10:47:54]

User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

There was one on myaviation with a GA pulling a tight turn while landing on an airfield ... - I am pretty sure HDRs are not accepted by A.net.

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineChrisH From Sweden, joined Jul 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5078 times:

HDR explanation: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/hdr.shtml


what seems to be the officer, problem?
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Hmm... Interesting information there. Opens up some cool possebilities for my holiday snaps.  Smile
E


User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Thanks for the response.

Quoting IL76 (Reply 2):
Do you mean multiple exposure?

Indeed, multiple exposures look great Eduard. To clarify what I mean, I don't want to shoot a series of photos and then merge them (like the boarder posted above) of an aircraft, but rather HDR in the way of merging several photos with the same scene (the overview was taken with a tripod) but different exposures.

This way you get all parts of the image with correct exposure. No blown highlights, no 'black' shadows.

Basically the luminous landscape tutorial explains the process in detail.

Thanks. F.



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5068 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Looks kinda spooky; like ghosts moving around on the apron.  ghost  ghost 
But I'd guess this is already too much 'editing' for A.net.

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 7):
But I'd guess this is already too much 'editing' for A.net.

That's what I was assuming too, so I asked for clarification.
Wouldn't bother me too much though, HDR is stunning for non-av....  Smile



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 8):
HDR is stunning for non-av....

Yes! After (quickly) reading the luminous landscape tutorial I'm sure to bring my tripod to New Zealand in october!  hyper 


User currently offlineEDDL From Germany, joined Dec 2002, 738 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

As long as this effect is not exaggerated and not obviously visible (no movements at all), I don't see a problem with HDR images.  wave 

Phil / EDDL


User currently offlineJhribar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

HDR is stunning for aviation as well.
When you shoot RAW you can process the RAW file various times. Each time optimizing a different section in the picture. This is not realy high dynamic range but it for sure extends the dynamic range without loosing that much of quality.

The overlay is similar to working with layer masks.
This feature comes in quite handy for high contrast exposure situations.

rgds,

Jeroen


User currently offlineTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Merging several photos into one sounds like cheating to me. And I also don't see the point of uploading photos like the first one posted.

Thomas

[Edited 2006-07-03 13:38:56]

User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/

Can I send in digitally enhanced/composite photos?
No, Airliners.net does not accept photos that have been altered in any way.



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

Quoting TS (Reply 12):
I also don't see the point of uploading photos like the first one posted.

from reply 0:

Quoting INNflight (Thread starter):
Example photo (won't upload it, it just illustrates the topic perfectly):

 Yeah sure



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineChrisH From Sweden, joined Jul 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

The D2x for instance can bracket 9 shots, the pictures would then all be taken within seconds. Great for night photography. I've tried a few cityscape shots in HDR and it takes some work but does look great, it looks like what the eye actually sees.


what seems to be the officer, problem?
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 15):
The D2x for instance can bracket 9 shots, the pictures would then all be taken within seconds.

As can the 20D, and I'm sure most DSLRS as well. However:

Quoting TS (Reply 12):
Merging several photos into one sounds like cheating to me.

 checkmark 

It's a form of cheating that is specifically not allowed here, as mentioned in the upload FAQ posted above.

If you can't get the correct exposure within the constraints of a single shot, then it's time to pack up the gear and move on...



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 16):
If you can't get the correct exposure within the constraints of a single shot

Dumb statement, very very dumb.

It's not a matter of getting the right exposure, it's about achieving the result your eye actually sees. The "correct" exposure doesn't do that, especially in high contrast situations.



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 17):
It's not a matter of getting the right exposure, it's about achieving the result your eye actually sees. The "correct" exposure doesn't do that, especially in high contrast situations.

I understand that from a purely-photographic standpoint. If you're going to be entering such a shot in a photography contest, magazine, book, etc. (which isn't about how the shot was taken, but of the finished product), then more power to you.   

But you weren't asking whether or not it would simply make for a decent-looking, "here's what I saw with my own eyes, so this is how the picture is supposed to look" shot, you were asking whether or not this type of manipulation is allowed here...Which, again, it isn't:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/

Can I send in digitally enhanced/composite photos?
No, Airliners.net does not accept photos that have been altered in any way.


(Edited all the "he"s for "you"s, as I didn't notice at first that you had started the thread)

[Edited 2006-07-03 14:55:41]


"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 18):
Which, again, it isn't:

already said in reply 8:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 8):

Wouldn't bother me too much though, HDR is stunning for non-av....



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 18):
If he's going to be entering such a shot in a photography contest, magazine, book, etc.

I bet you've already seen hundreds of HDR photos in magazines or contests and didn't notice as thousands of professionals use this technique. it's not a matter of delivering the result in one shot, it's a matter of having the best photo in the end.

Have fun point-and-shooting  Smile



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 19):
I bet you've already seen hundreds of HDR photos in magazines or contests and didn't notice as thousands of professionals use this technique. it's not a matter of delivering the result in one shot, it's a matter of having the best photo in the end.

Didn't even read my reply:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 18):
I understand that from a purely-photographic standpoint. If you're going to be entering such a shot in a photography contest, magazine, book, etc. (which isn't about how the shot was taken, but of the finished product), then more power to you.



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineChrisH From Sweden, joined Jul 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 18):
Can I send in digitally enhanced/composite photos?
No, Airliners.net does not accept photos that have been altered in any way.

All photos on this site are inherently digitally enhanced already. So it's not a clear cut definition anyway. A HDR shot is by no means a composite, in the sense of taking 2 different pictures and doing a cut'n'paste job. It's the exact same image taken with a bigger latitude. If there was a sensor that could handle 20 stops of information, then it would be legit. Right now this is the only way to do it, I think it should also be legit. It's not a fraudulent manipulation in any sense, it's actually quite the opposite.



what seems to be the officer, problem?
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 21):
It's not a fraudulent manipulation in any sense, it's actually quite the opposite.

It is fraudulent manipulation, and it is a cut & paste job from two different pictures (albeit the same exact scene). Just because you can't physically see the lines for where the different exposure layers meet, this doesn't mean it's any more acceptable.

When you take one photograph, and layer it with other photographs, it no longer remains a photograph in the sense of the word, but becomes a composition.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 19):
Have fun point-and-shooting

Have fun cheating the system  Wink



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 65
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4904 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hate to deliver bad news again, but HDR images are not allowed on here.

Will have a go at them myself though, and upload them somewhere else Smile

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineSinkrate From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

While HDR's are not acceptable here, they are a great way to make the image look like what your eye really saw. I've used it quite a few times and the results arent great, im still testing it out, and i've seen some awesome images merged using HDR. I might try a couple aviation photos of static aircraft on the ramp using one RAW file and making a few diffrent exposures. I wont try to upload here.

Michael


25 Post contains images EDDL : The best HDR images are the ones where you can't see the technique that has been used to deliver the result. When it's professionally done, no one wi
26 Post contains links D L X : Clearly, that rule cannot be read too literally. If you do not digitally manipulate your shot, it will NOT be accepted here. (Nikon D200 and Canon D1
27 StealthZ : OK you anti-manipulation "purists" merging several images is out by your rules, how about the multiprocessing of a single RAW image and layering and m
28 TimdeGroot : If done well this is allowed as far as I know. This will lead to an editing rejection if not done properly though, something we see more and more. Ti
29 ChrisH : No, the word would be composite. All photographs are compositions. No, nothings been cut out, nothings been pasted in. Two exposures of the same scen
30 TS : Yes, I am a purist, & all I do with my photos is levels, resizing, sharpening & maybe resizing. Nothing else. I'm not against this technique per se,
31 IngemarE : ...as there are jobs where your job would be in jeopardy if you didn't! You're not altering the picture "per se", but rather getting the most out of
32 JeffM : I would bet a lot of money on that. HDR methodology is nothing new, the same techniques (though applied in a different manner) have been used in film
33 Post contains images KFLLCFII : It's silly to infer that my point attempts to hold all forms of manipulation in contempt; You and I both know this is about what forms of manipulatio
34 ChrisH : Incorrect. Exposing the panel correctly and then taking a ramp shot from a different airport and pasting into the window. That is a cut&paste job. Pe
35 Jhribar : absolutely right..... I was wondering about using layer masks on for example curves as well. Isn't locally applying a (multiple) curve to a picture t
36 JeffM : Absolutely. I do it all the time, and will continue to. The layer mask works for almost any type correction you need to apply. Bingo. Couldn't say it
37 JumboJim747 : I think using the same file in your quote and using a completely different picture file to merge with another file but same scene as in this discussi
38 Post contains images KFLLCFII : Absolutely. And for the umpteenth time, this discussion (and my reply you quoted) isn't about what is or is not considered an acceptable practice thr
39 StealthZ : KFLLCFII, This may seem a digression but I am just trying to get a feel for motivation here. If you used a film camera and loaded it with B&W film and
40 Philhyde : It is ludicrous to call this fraud, especially within the context of this question and A.net. It is not being presented as "what can I get away with"
41 Post contains links DLKAPA : I've been starting to dabble with HDRI recently, It's quite fun. Here's some examples: http://rockymountainavphotos.com/sir...e.com/imagehtmls/makeout
42 D L X : I didn't make that inference. I said that that rule cannot be read so hard and fast. Since clearly you have to "break" that rule to get a shot accept
43 KFLLCFII : You're trying to get a feel for motivation. Alright then, let me repeat myself for the umpteenth + 1 time: This discussion (and my motivation) isn't
44 StealthZ : OK, maybe I was not clear. Within the context of A.net which of those B&W techniques do you find acceptable or not? Is it just me, I do not consider
45 KFLLCFII : You're not "breaking" that rule to get a shot accepted if you're not exceeding the context of the terms used therein. Let's take a look at it again:
46 StealthZ : OK, You seem pretty keen to make those distinctions earlier in th trhead but no longer prepared to. Fine
47 D L X : whatever. Some people think using a DSLR is cheating. Some people think not developing your own film is cheating.
48 Post contains links and images ThierryD : Speaking of compositions I just found a nice example here on A.net from the good old times View Large View MediumPhoto © George Polfliet Thierry
49 Kukkudrill : To give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question, my understanding is yes a.net allows this. But going further, e.g. adding a sepia tin
50 ChrisH : I believe I've seen some nice sepia pics in the DB recently?
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