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Photographers Rating Sytem - Skewed Results  
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

I feel that the rating system and photo hit counters suffer from a critical flaw. Unlike the screening process, which is completely anonomous, photo rating and hits are skewed by the ability for the "voters" to see who the photo was taken by. This leads to biased results. I beleive that all photos should be added to the database anonomously for...let's say the first 24 hours. This would allow people to view & vote based purely on what they see, without being influenced by the name attached to the photo.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWakeTurbulence From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

I don't know about other people, but when I see a good photo I click on it. I could care less who the photographer is. The only thing I do care about regarding names is keeping up to date on what friends have had photos recently added.
-Matt



Jetwash Images - Feel the Heat!!!
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1):
when I see a good photo I click on it.

True, however I'm sure that "certain" photographers have a following that fuels their hits and ratings with biased results.


User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 2):
True, however I'm sure that "certain" photographers have a following that fuels their hits and ratings with biased results.

Its not bias that someone gets more hits than others, if a photog has a following, don't you think there is a reason for that?

Personally I could not give a hoot about my hits or ratings but I know that my children and family in the US like to keep track on what I have on the database. Is that bias?



G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5686 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2645 times:
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Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Thread starter):
Unlike the screening process, which is completely anonomous,

No it isn't, the screeners know whose photos they are screening. We rely on the screeners to be impartial and until there is evidence to the contrary that is an assumption we must make, But Anonymous, No.

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 2):
True, however I'm sure that "certain" photographers have a following that fuels their hits and ratings with biased results.

I am sure this is true... but does it matter, what is the big deal with the photographer rating system anyway?
Those that have such a "following" have it for good reason and that is the quality of their work over a significant period of time.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Thread starter):
I feel that the rating system and photo hit counters suffer from a critical flaw. Unlike the screening process, which is completely anonomous, photo rating and hits are skewed by the ability for the "voters" to see who the photo was taken by. This leads to biased results

Not so.

The screening process is not completely 'anonomous" (or even anonymous!).

The fact that a photographer has a following does not introduce bias - it just means he gets more hits. Popularity is not the same as bias.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2627 times:
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Quoting StealthZ (Reply 4):
Those that have such a "following" have it for good reason and that is the quality of their work over a significant period of time.

You have a good point here Chris. I would be thrilled to think that anyone was looking for a photo because I had taken it. I shall dream on  wink .

I would argue that hit counts and photo ratings are a rather minor - maybe even trivial - aspect of the photography here. Much more important is that people have photos that meet the acceptance criteria and are thus showcased here. If you can achieve that you should have your name under the photo - together with the copyright bar. Having photos displayed anonymously - for however short a time period - would seem to make a nonsense of the attempts to protect the photographers' ownership of his/her material.

Cheers.

Paul


User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 4):
but does it matter, what is the big deal with the photographer rating system anyway?

It's not a big deal...but it would be nice to see one of my photos on the front page sometime. When you have the boost of a following it makes it much easier to attain the high number of hits/ratings that will get you a front page shot. If shots were introduced anonomously, people would be forced to view the large version of photos based purely on what they see. They would be unable to search for new photos based on the photographers name (for the first 24 hours).

Quoting Viv (Reply 5):
The fact that a photographer has a following does not introduce bias

I disagree. If a photographer has a following, he will tend to get a certain number of hits from people who search out his/her photos by photographer name. This will account for a portion of his hits. If a person has a great photo, they *may* still be hobbled by not having a recognized name. Certain names pop up in "photographers choice" and "top of 24 hours" relatively often. A little too often to suggest a completely unbiased system IMO.

Quoting Viv (Reply 5):
Popularity is not the same as bias.

Obviously. However, being "popular" can produce a biased hit counting result when the photographers name is linked to the photo.

[Edited 2006-08-01 09:41:55]

User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5686 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 2589 times:
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Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 7):
but it would be nice to see one of my photos on the front page sometime.

And it can be, you just have to take one worthy of the status, there are many photogs here that would make no claim to being "name" photographers that have had the pic of the day.. many more that have made it to the "front page"
Is this really why you do this?
Perhaps you need to read Phil's article-
An Anet/photography Article Worth Reading. (by Mirrodie Aug 1 2006 in Aviation Photography)



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 7):
When you have the boost of a following it makes it much easier to attain the high number of hits/ratings that will get you a front page shot.

You basically say too few people check your latest uploads on a regular basis and because of that you get less hits...? If this is THAT urgent to you, sign up on forums or blogs and plug your pictures there to get a couple of clicks. Somehow desperate though.

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 7):
If a photographer has a following, he will tend to get a certain number of hits from people who search out his/her photos by photographer name. This will account for a portion of his hits.

I'm pretty sure any photographer who gets his photos checked regularly deserves that.

Everybody here starts as a no-name... get out and make yourself famous!

Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
If this is THAT urgent to you

No, it's really not, you have misunderstood the point of the topic. The point is that the results of the different polling and voting systems on this website are skewed by the fact that the photographers name is known. If someone has linked this photographer and checks their new stuff regularly, they automatically have a leg up on everyone else in terms of making it to "the top". It just would be nice to see the rating system with a little more anonymity to give lesser-known photographers a chance at some bigger exposure.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
I'm pretty sure any photographer who gets his photos checked regularly deserves that.

I'm not saying that they don't deserve that. I just don't think that this should factor in to the result of the rating and hit-counting systems.

Again, my point is that the system for collecting data on photograph views as well as the system for "rating" photos is skewed IMO. I am no the first person to say this...it has been mentioned in another thread(s).


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 7):
It's not a big deal...but it would be nice to see one of my photos on the front page sometime.

My very first uploaded picture was the top of the day. I'm just saying this because at the time, the photographer community had no idea who I was. It was the top of the day because it was interesting, and not many days have interesting, out-of-the-ordinary shots. So, shoot something cool, and you'll be rewarded.

In any event, I strongly doubt that making the shots anonymous for 24 hours would have even the slightest effect on hits during that period. I don't go on this site and look for Sam Chui pictures usually - I just go look at whatever is there.



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User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2477 times:
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I don't really think this is true, although it might seem so. The household names usually upload good shots. That is why they get hits, not because they have a famous name.

A photographer who gets his first picture accepted can easily make it to #1 if it's a nice shot.

The photo rating system was skewed in the past because some people found out how to vote on their own photos. This has now been dealt with hopefully so you'll see a little more variety in the names that show up there in the future.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 7):
it would be nice to see one of my photos on the front page sometime.

Then take one worthy of getting there, and quit whinning about why you think other people get their's on the front page and you don't.

Simple


User currently offlineJAT74L From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 618 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 13):
Then take one worthy of getting there, and quit whinning about why you think other people get their's on the front page and you don't.

Simple

And there speaketh the Jeffster!

I'm an a.net nobody and have had two or three on the front page. Dry your eyes and keep trying!

Regards

John



I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 13):
and quit whinning

Oh boy, Here we go...Jeff M to the rescue again.

Thanks for yet another inflammatory useless comment. However, I won't take it personally like others have. I recognize the difference between those who have something useful to say, and those who just like to stir the pot. I supervise 12 mechanics who have made an art out of this.  Wink

Edit:

It doesn't suprise me how so many here would misconstrue this thread as some sort of complaint or rant about why a picture of mine hasn't made it to the front page.  Yeah sure

Beleive me, I have *much* bigger fish to fry. I was just trying to make a point that the "system" suffers from a flaw.

[Edited 2006-08-02 00:54:45]

User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2350 times:
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I agree 100% with Jeff. You imply you can't get a #1 photo because your name isn't well known, which is complete bullshit!

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 16):
You imply you can't get a #1 photo because your name isn't well known

Did I imply that? Don't think so. I beleive I only said that it may help.

P.S. Why does the crew get away with using offensive language?

[Edited 2006-08-02 01:15:54]

User currently offlineWakeTurbulence From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

Because you can use it when it is appropriate (such as calling your statement "bullshit"). There was a long thread about it in site related.
-Matt



Jetwash Images - Feel the Heat!!!
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 15):
Thanks for yet another inflammatory useless comment.

And you calling my opinion useless is different how?

[Edited 2006-08-02 01:56:37]

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 19):
So why can't I call your entire post 'Useless'?

I would rather call it Bullshit.  Wink


User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 17):
P.S. Why does the crew get away with using offensive language?



Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 18):
Because you can use it when it is appropriate

And that makes it less offensive how?
 Confused

Quoting JeffM (Reply 19):

And you calling my opinion useless is different how?

Your opinion *is* useless because it only serves the purpose of being inflammitory, not to mention your continual blatant disregard of forum rules. You really seem to "get off" on being obtuse. Why is it that some are instantly punished for stepping even slightly over forum rules, but *some* seem to be able to get away with just about anything...with no consequence. What a joke.  laughing 


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 13):
Then take one worthy of getting there, and quit whinning about why you think other people get their's on the front page and you don't.

Simple



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 16):
I agree 100% with Jeff. You imply you can't get a #1 photo because your name isn't well known, which is complete bullshit!

Tim



Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 18):
Because you can use it when it is appropriate (such as calling your statement "bullshit"). There was a long thread about it in site related.
-Matt



Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 20):
I would rather call it Bullshit.

We just call it like we see it, thats all.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 21):
Why is it that some are instantly punished for stepping even slightly over forum rules, but *some* seem to be able to get away with just about anything...with no consequence.

I think it's because we've had a few "Top of the Day" front page photos.  rotfl 
When you quit feeling sorry for yourself and can deal with the reality that people just might disagree with you, and that your opinion may not be right, or popular, you'll be much better off and less bitter.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 22):
We just call it like we see it, thats all.

 bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 12):
The photo rating system was skewed in the past because some people found out how to vote on their own photos.

I would ban those people for a whole month or so !!! They must be really poor souls ...

Robin



ABC
25 Post contains images Flyfisher1976 : And again...
26 OD720 : To keep things simple, take it as brand names. Probably Sony sells more TV sets than some other brand based on its reputation and merits over the year
27 Gary2880 : This is quite true. i must admit i always look out for and view Mr Chads awesome uploads, in turn mediocre photos from places like, i don't know, say
28 Flyfisher1976 : I see your point...nothing is really "wrong" with it...my only question was how this affects the results of polling for things like photographers cho
29 JeffM : Pretty much as we do for places like Aberdeen. LOL.... Opinion, I'll give it when I want to. Sorry if you can't get over that. Good luck in your ques
30 Viv : This is VERY good advice. Much better than crying in the corner. Some of the statements made in this thread certainly fit the definition of "male bov
31 Post contains images Gary2880 : The royal we now is it Jeff? I'm mortally wounded from such a seething comeback
32 JeffM : LOL...as I was with your weak comment about my photos. But that's o.k., I understand your frustration. I do however agree that Denver is a boring pla
33 Post contains images Flyfisher1976 : Hardly...Does it give you satisfaction to think that you may have ruffled someones feathers? As I stated previously, I have pretty thick skin having
34 Post contains images JeffM : Your right, most of the PS actions I've made available for people here have not exceeded 500 downloads except for 2. I should probably just quit post
35 TimdeGroot : I'm pretty sure there are worse things on the web for kids to find than some 'profanity' at A.net. Tim
36 WakeTurbulence : "If you are under the age of 18, then you need parental permission in order to become a member. Please note that this website is not primarily intende
37 Maiznblu_757 : Joseph, You are really looking silly here. Time to move on I think.
38 Flyfisher1976 : Umm, not "looking" like anything...really could give a crap less what anybody "thinks" about *me* here. A shame that this thread has been so twisted
39 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : You couldnt find anything else but that? Bottom line, its called having fun, something you seem to have lost somewhere along the lines or knew little
40 Post contains images Flyfisher1976 : Hardly...My statement was clear: As was my response to this: What I would like to have seen in this thread is more well thought out and intuitive cou
41 Post contains images JeffM : I'd like to be 6' 5"....but that's not happening. Get over it. You whine worse then my neighbor's 4 year old. This entire post of your's is proof of
43 Post contains images Flyfisher1976 : Neither Do I...You have the right to express an opinion. My issue is with the ugly manner in which you so often choose to do so. It's totally unessac
44 Viv : Reputation may skew the results slightly, but I believe to a fairly insignificant degree. By and large, the best way to reach the front page is by upl
45 Post contains images Flyfisher1976 : True!
46 VirginFlyer : Our rules do allow a limited amount of swearing, provided it is within reason and is not used as part of an insult to another user. They also advise
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