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New Contrast Limits?  
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

I've got a lot of contrast rejections lately.

Here are some of them:

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...=20060913_TF-BTH-0306-09092006.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...=20060913_TF-FTU-0026-30082006.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...F-CSF-9608-15082006-sRGB-White.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...Y-RCB-9599-15082006-sRGB-White.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...=20060907_TF-HHG-0058-02092006.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...=20060826_TF-BCW-9672-15082006.jpg

....

Ooops, and also a dark rejection:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r.../20060813_TF-ISA-7057-07082006.jpg

...

Are any of these salvagable? Did I just make contrast in PS too little or too much, or are the photos just bad?

Thanks very much,
David - Aero145

[Edited 2006-09-14 11:39:46]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

Hi David, well they are all dark and lacking in contrast. They should not be too hard to fix. Check your histogram first and you will see that there is a gap on the right. Correct your levels to bring the gram over to the right edge, this will lighten the image. Then add contrast either by making your curve 'S' shaped or by using the contrast control.
Here is a version of one of your images, the dark bars are your original


Hope this helps .. Jid



G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1879 times:
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There is a tool in photoshop called "levels". I suggest you take a look at it, it will solve these problems Wink

Tim



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User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Quoting Jid (Reply 1):
Hi David, well they are all dark and lacking in contrast. They should not be too hard to fix. Check your histogram first and you will see that there is a gap on the right. Correct your levels to bring the gram over to the right edge, this will lighten the image. Then add contrast either by making your curve 'S' shaped or by using the contrast control.
Here is a version of one of your images, the dark bars are your original

Thanks for this, Jid. I'll try to fix the photos by using your and

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 2):
There is a tool in photoshop called "levels". I suggest you take a look at it, it will solve these problems

Tim's methods.

Regards,
David


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

Quoting Jid (Reply 1):
Then add contrast either by making your curve 'S' shaped or by using the contrast control

I strongly recommend to learn how to use the curves correctly as the brightness / contrast tool takes away a lot of data from the file.

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 3):
Tim's methods.

Yes... he's right!?



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Quoting INNflight (Reply 4):
I strongly recommend to learn how to use the curves correctly as the brightness / contrast tool takes away a lot of data from the file.

Roger. I use the Brightness / Contrast tool very little.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 4):
Yes... he's right!?

Uhh??


User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Here comes a new edit of TF-BTH. Any better?

Big version: Width: 1200 Height: 800 File size: 877kb


And TF-FTU and TF-ISA, what do I have to do with them to get them better (maybe ISA isn't salvagable, then just FTU)?

Regards,
David


User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Still a bit dark for me David,

Move the right arrow on your level control until it just touches the edge of the graph, then move the center slider left a touch. Then add contrast, idealy with the curve control ('S' shaped curve).

Jid



G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1813 times:

Better, Jid?

Big version: Width: 1200 Height: 800 File size: 913kb


User currently offlineChris78cpr From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1804 times:

Learn the levels and curves tools and you should be able to fix most exposure programs.

However when lightening so much you may find higher noise levels in your image.

If all your images need this much correction look at your exposure in camera as it seems like you are underexposing your shots.

Chris



5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 9):
Learn the levels and curves tools and you should be able to fix most exposure programs.

I'll try my best.

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 9):
However when lightening so much you may find higher noise levels in your image.

I know that.  Sad

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 9):
If all your images need this much correction look at your exposure in camera as it seems like you are underexposing your shots.

I always underexpose because I don't feel good when underexposing in Photoshop. I usually do 2 steps down, should I maybe put only 1?


User currently offlineChris78cpr From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1787 times:

2 stops!!!!!!!

When im shooting, unless it's a really sunny day i usually overexpose by a third or leave it standard.

I now shoot RAW which is perfect for akward exposure days.

I would NEVER underexpose more than 1/3 - 2/3 of a stop when shooting aviation!

Chris



5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1787 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 10):
I always underexpose because I don't feel good when underexposing in Photoshop.

But you overexpose in Photoshop as shown by these recent examples. Fail to understand why you would underexpose in-camera, only to overexpose again in PS...

Tim



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User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 10):
I always underexpose because I don't feel good when underexposing in Photoshop. I usually do 2 steps down, should I maybe put only 1?

I would try to nail it straight away. various factors will have to be considered. Shooting an all white fuselage on a very sunny day will take a little care to get right. Take some readings around you, see what you will need to set. It is very important for me to do that.

Regards
Colin  Smile


User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Well it is still a little dark for my liking but others may disagree. I would agree with young Chris that you should try and get your exposure right straight out of the camera, the less processing you can do to an image the better.

Jid



G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 11):
I now shoot RAW which is perfect for akward exposure days.

You NOW shoot RAW? You've been shooting 2 years with the 1D Mark II on JPEG always?  Wow!

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 12):
But you overexpose in Photoshop as shown by these recent examples. Fail to understand why you would underexpose in-camera, only to overexpose again in PS...

Please check the newest photo of TF-TAL, taken by Gisli Bergur Sigurdsson. I edited that shot for him, he took it in RAW, so I could manage to save it, but it was so very much over-exposed on my screen (0-+ exposure from the camera).

Quoting Linco22 (Reply 13):
Shooting an all white fuselage on a very sunny day will take a little care to get right.

Hmm. When I take photos of an all white fuselage on a sunny day, I usually expose down by 2-3 stops...  confused 

Quoting Jid (Reply 14):
Well it is still a little dark for my liking but others may disagree.

Yeh, I disagree.  stirthepot 

Quoting Jid (Reply 14):
I would agree with young Chris that you should try and get your exposure right straight out of the camera, the less processing you can do to an image the better.

I'll keep that in mind. Little sun these days, very disturbing.


User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1772 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 15):
Please check the newest photo of TF-TAL, taken by Gisli Bergur Sigurdsson. I edited that shot for him, he took it in RAW, so I could manage to save it, but it was so very much over-exposed on my screen (0-+ exposure from the camera).

But that's not the case with your photos. Various experienced photographer are telling you to get the exposure right in-camera. if you don't want to listen, fine.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 16):
Various experienced photographer are telling you to get the exposure right in-camera. if you don't want to listen, fine.

I didn't say I didn't want to listen, but in my case, maybe my 20D isn't at all in order. I don't know, I don't know how to check.


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 15):
2-3 stops...

Are you really talking full stops here or are you talking about stpes. What ever this is on Canon. On my camera this would be a 2/3 of a full stop which sounds a little bit better. But 2 - 3 full stops doesn't sound good



-
User currently offlineThowman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

Take heed of the wise words of JeffM

Get an incident meter!! Big grin

Jeff, your my technical photography role-model and photoshop guru... lol  Wink

Andy


User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1765 times:
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By bracketing. Take some shots and compare them.

Sorry if I have to laugh David, but again you have problems with photos, and again you assume your equipment is at fault Smile

Tim



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User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 18):
Are you really talking full stops here or are you talking about stpes. What ever this is on Canon. On my camera this would be a 2/3 of a full stop which sounds a little bit better. But 2 - 3 full stops doesn't sound good

Ooopsy! I of course ment steps, not stops.

Sorrry!!

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 20):
By bracketing. Take some shots and compare them.

Roger!

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 20):
Sorry if I have to laugh David, but again you have problems with photos, and again you assume your equipment is at fault

Laugh as you wish, I couldn't care less.


User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1758 times:

The 20D generally underexposes, just as the 10D generally overexposes. Underexposing 2-3 stops on a sunny day would lead to incredibly dark photos.
Can you post an untreated JPG perhaps + exif (only resized, no manipulation done in the RAW converter or anything)?

Ed


User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 22):
Can you post an untreated JPG perhaps + exif (only resized, no manipulation done in the RAW converter or anything)?

Yes, Ed.

I will: Convert from RAW, resize to 800 pixels wide.

Two shots.

Regards,
David


User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...F-ARC-Tiger-0344-09092006-sRGB.jpg

Now it's getting strange.

Where are those whites that the rejection message was talking about?

If I put more contrast, it will be rejected for contrast...

Where are the edges of acceptable contrast?

[Edited 2006-09-14 18:26:59]

25 Post contains links Aero145 : Here comes a contrast edit of the Tiger. Any better? Too much contrast? Still too little contrast? http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/7...rctiger03440
26 Post contains links and images Aviopic : Ok..... lets try to improve things with one of your images. In the upper right corner you will find the histogram. Ideally it should start in the left
27 Chris78cpr : Yes, i NOW shoot Raw. Just because i own a 1dmkii does not mean i have to shoot RAW. Most of the stuff i shoot is documentary and journalism and spor
28 Post contains images Aero145 : Congrats! Gotcha! I was just using the newest methods people were telling me to use in this chat. They happened to work VERY well! Look: Willem. Than
29 Lasham : Hi David Go and buy a film camera put some slide film in it a take some shots. You will soon find out what under & over exp is! You will also find tha
30 Aero145 : In a drawer behind me, rests a Canon EOS 500N film camera, without any film. There are two slides that have to be processed, one Kodachrome, one Elit
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