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Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!  
User currently offlineAvro85 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 236 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

Hi all,

I have the following rejection which I don't really get..... And would like to have some advice from all the experienced people here

Some might remember from another topic, that a couple of days ago I got the following shot rejected for border (as ONLY rejection criteria I may add)

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ections/big/20060920_ET-AJS_02.jpg

After some quick and helpful advice I quickly saw my mistake, corrected it by doing a new edit of the original and re-submitted the picture.

I eventually came up with the following picture in the queue ( http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ections/big/20060925_ET-AJS_04.jpg ) which had no borders this time. Since the picture had been rejected for borders only I was pretty confident that it could get through since it was the only fault mentioned on the rejection mail.

Well, you might guess the surprise I had when I saw a couple of minutes ago that the shot had been rejected for Motiv this time....

The good news however was that I saw that I also got a personal message form the screener who rejected the picture. I thought that the screener might help me out but the personal message just said the following: "crop".

Now my questions:

- Does this mean that those kind of crops are not allowed anymore into the DB ?
- Why wasn't it rejected for motiv right away the first time if the motiv isn't allowed ? Or has the rule changed in 5 days ?
- Could the screener in question maybe elaborate on the word crop ? crop because it's not allowed or crop because it's not well done etc ......


I would be very happy if people could help me out here in order for me to know whether or not I have to forgot those crops in the future ? I'd like to save the picture if possible...

Many thanks for all the help as usual.
Cheers
Chris

PS: I don't want to sound rude in any way in my post and don't want to critisize the screening team who does an amazing job !! I just want an explanation since "crop" isn't suffisiant for me

EDIT: typo

[Edited 2006-09-25 18:31:19]

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

I think most photographers on this site would agree, that the single most frustrating thing about A.net is the way the rejections are handled.

You upload a photo, it gets rejected, you start again at the back of the queue. It takes weeks for a photo to get screened this way. The forum is full of threads where people ask "pre-screening advice" or "advice on a rejection".

The professional picture agencies and even the world's largest royalty-free image bank have a better solution to this problem:

Your photo is either "rejected outright" or "rejected with permission to re-upload".

If your photo is "rejected with permission to re-upload", but has minor faults that can be corrected, the rejection email specifies what needs to be corrected, and provides a link for the re-upload. Once the photo is re-uploaded, it is screened within 24 hours. These minor corrections do not need to be screened by more than one screener.

If the photo is not considered good enough for re-upload, the screeners do not give specific advice.

This saves the screeners time and minimizes the photographers frustrations.

Maybe it's time to adopt a similar system here? Everyone can handle rejections, but not the way the rejections are handled.

-Pepef-


User currently offlineGlobalpics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 216 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

I think the crop problem is the fact that the top of the radio pylon on the top of the fuselage is cropped and also the bottom of the nosewheel doors is cropped and not complete.To me this makes the motiv rejection spot on  Smile

User currently offlineVIAF From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 196 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Ok Globalpics

But why they don`t rejected the picture the first time with "Bad motiv" how

Avro85 said and not first with bad border !

This make not sense !


User currently offlineGarry From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 185 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Hi Chris - I think many people will share your frustration.

It is well documented in the forum that members have asked for all rejection reasons to be stated. This has two benefits. Firstly, it does not waste the screeners time in rejecting the same photo again and, secondly, it does not frustrate the photographer who thinks he/she has corrected matters only to find there is actually another reason.

I'm sure with hindsight you would have preferred the word 'motive' added to your first rejection rather than 'crop' added as a personal message to the second.

Just my thoughts

Garry



www.garryridsdale.com
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quoting VIAF (Reply 3):
But why they don`t rejected the picture the first time with "Bad motiv" how

It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".  Wink

Quoting Pepef (Reply 1):
Maybe it's time to adopt a similar system here?


 rotfl  Maybe when Johan gives control of his site to you, you can implement that?

It's not broke, don't try to fix it.


User currently offlinePepef From Finland, joined Oct 2002, 440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
Maybe when Johan gives control of his site to you, you can implement that?

Consider it done. Next I'll sign you on as Manager of Customer relations. No pay of course, but you get a free t-shirt with my picture on it.

-Pepef-


User currently offlineAvro85 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 236 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Thanks for the reactions so far. It's nice to see I'm not the only one having those frustrations from time to time  Wink

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out". Wink

Really ? Are you serious ? If that's true then something could be done to improve the screening performance even better. Ticking all the flaws instead of one doesn't take much more time does it ? But re submitting a picture in the queue will take away one precious slot for a picture with an obvious flaw !!!

Anyway, I forgot to say that the frustration was even bigger because I made a comment to the screener when I re submited the photo. I mentioned that it was rejected for border and that I corrected the flaws. Additionaly the picture went through the first screening which means that at least one screener didn't dislike the motiv that much  Wink

Chris


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".

That's the screeners' loss, because that means it's just more poor re-uploads they have to reject.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

Quoting Avro85 (Reply 7):
Really ? Are you serious ?

Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It's not broke, don't try to fix it.

It's broke.

Your comment here should be a clue...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?


User currently offlineEadster From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2216 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

Quoting Pepef (Reply 1):

Your photo is either "rejected outright" or "rejected with permission to re-upload".

Yeah and we could make suggestions till the Cows come home but we all know that nothing will change in regards to the rejection system.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".

Lately, I've agreed with everything you've said apart from this. So what does it mean when a screener adds a comment to a shot along the lines of "fix problem X and reupload please." It does happen as I've had a few comments like that in the past.

And for them not to include all rejection reasons is only wasting everyone's time. If they mention every rejection reason in the first place, then some folks may not upload it a second and third time.

Just my thoughts. I know screeners don't have to let us know all reasons but wouldn't it help us all?


User currently offlineEngineergreg From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

To be fair, there can be any number of reasons a particular photo has been rejected. Is it the responsibility of the screener to list each and every reason a photo was rejected? I would guess that in most cases one problem (such as bad cropping) can also lead to another problem, for example bad motive. Now before you ask the question "then why didn't they list both reasons in my rejection letter?" you may want to consider the fact that screeners have a lot of photos to screen and don't have the time to give absolute attention to each and every single photo.

I realize nobody enjoys having their photos rejected (and I have a 0% success rate) but there is a reason behind each rejection. The screeners have a very thankless job to perform and don't think for a minute they enjoy rejecting a photo which someone put a lot of work into to get it accepted.

Just my thoughts.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It's not broke, don't try to fix it.

It's broke.

Your comment here should be a clue...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?

No. I don't think it is.

Maybe the 1 strike concept is too difficult for some? As has been mentioned before, if you need help, ask for it here, not after the fact from the screeners, or do something like using a rejection checklist to check your image BEFORE uploading it. But remember that a good percentage of the folks offering such pearls of photographic corrective wisdom, get a ton of rejections themself.  Smile


User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 13):
No. I don't think it is.

Then why the 'endless posts' of this nature?

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's

It's not a.net, it's the rest of the world?


User currently offlineAvro85 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 236 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?

Yes from time to time I read some of those endless topics. However I'm not trying to change the fundamentals of Anet with my topic. All I wanted to hear is some constructive feedback. Is the motiv because the antenna is cropped away ? Is it motiv because the gear doors are not fully included ? Can it be fixed etc....

Up till now only one member explained me why he thinks it was rejected for motiv.

Then on a second note I also wanted to state the fact that I don't understand the rejection since it already went through screening without being rejected for motiv. That's all. I don't intent to change the screening process. And I certainly dont critisize the screeners who do an amazing job as I already mentioned.

I'm not going to debate on other matters.

I hope it's clear now Jeff  Wink

Best Regards
Chris


User currently offlineLasham From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3218 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting Avro85 (Reply 15):
the screeners who do an amazing job

Thanks!!



No sun no fun
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