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New Into DSLR's, What To Get?  
User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

Greetings, fellow photographers,

I've been looking into getting a DSLR for a while now and am going to treat myself to one for my 18th birthday. I've already decided to get a 30D body, now I'm just looking for lenses. After searching around the net for hours, I've come up with two different lineups. Since all of these lenses have been highly recommended, i would like to hear your opinions on them, and recommend me to one of the two. Here goes:

Lineup 1

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS or 24-105mm f/4L IS
EF 70-200mm f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS
EF 50mm f/1.4

This lineup covers most of my shooting situations. I would really like the 10-22mm since its the only way of getting true wide-angle on the APS-C sensor of the 30D. I can live with the price of the upcoming IS version of the 70-200 f/4 L as long as it gives me a good panning effect.

Lineup 2

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
EF 17-40mm f/4 L
EF 50mm f/1.4
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

This is a cheaper lineup, same notes as above.

Lineup 3

EF 17-40mm f/4 L
EF 50mm f/1.4
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

The cheapest lineup, but missing the critical wide angle.

This is to be an allround set with emphasis on spotting and landscape photography.

Any comments welcome,
Alex  bigthumbsup 

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5239 times:

Hello Alex.

The latest setup works fine, but the first one is very nice, as of the 10-22 and 24-105.

Regards,
Aero145


User currently offlineMygind66 From Spain, joined May 2004, 1058 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5234 times:

Hi Alex..

I see money is not a problem hopefully for you..
I'd rather prefer the 24-70/2.8 L plus the 100-400/L lens too if what you need is for aviation photography.

Cheers

Enrique


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4695 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5225 times:

Alex, what are you planning on doing with the 50mm 1.4? do you really need that 1.4, or the build quality? Otherwise you might think about the 1.8 II version, wich can be found new for under €100 here. It's sharp as *#$&, nice apeture (I use it for musical/play photography) and allthough from plastic pretty ok.

Great portrait lens.

Jurgen



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5225 times:

Thanks for your comments so far, some more notes here,

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 2):
I see money is not a problem hopefully for you..

Money isn't such a big issue, I've worked out the cost of each lineup as follows (including other accessories):

Lineup 1: 5000$
Lineup 2: 4400$
Lineup 3: 3700$

Ideally I'd like to keep the price below 4000$, max 4500$. I'm only interested in Lineup 1 if it's really worth its money.

I've considered the 100-400 L in combination with the 24-105 L, but its a little slow (i'd like at least f/4) and on the heavy side.

On a side note, I have read a lot of complaints of getting a bad copy of a lens, so I was wondering what the chances were of ending up with a bad copy, and what I can do about it since I am aiming for top quality pictures.

Again, more comments welcome, cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 3):
Alex, what are you planning on doing with the 50mm 1.4? do you really need that 1.4, or the build quality? Otherwise you might think about the 1.8 II version, wich can be found new for under €100 here. It's sharp as *#$&, nice apeture (I use it for musical/play photography) and allthough from plastic pretty ok.

Great portrait lens.

Yes, I've heard a lot about the 50mm f/1.8 lens, one of the best value for money lenses around. The reason I'm looking at the f/1.4 is low light airport night shots, and portrait photography. At first I had decided on the f/1.8, but I kept on reading recomendations for the f/1.4 model over the f/1.8, although the 1.4 is a little soft at 1.4. If I do run into money problems, I'll buy the 1.8.


User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2734 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting LHB727230Adv (Thread starter):
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

I didn't think there was a F/4 IS Version of the 70-200? Unless you mean the F/2.8 version?



Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 6):
I didn't think there was a F/4 IS Version of the 70-200?

Hehe Simon.  Smile

Just search for in google exactly this, with " ":

"Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM"

Will be possible to buy it in this month.

The changes are new 3rd Generation IS (3-4 stops), better IQ and weather sealing.

Regards,
Aero145


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Alex,

The 24-70mm F/2.8 L is a non Image Stabilized lens. I opted for the 24-105mm as it has the 3rd Generation IS and can easily handhold it at slow shutter speeds. Its great glass and highly recommended.

Practicing my prop blur skills on a decorative windmill in my grandmothers backyard this past summer (handheld):

http://www.jetwashimages.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_3293.jpg

Camera: Canon 20D
Lens: Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS
Shutter: 1/6 sec.
Aperture: F/22
ISO: 100
Focal Length: 32mm

Heres one more, handheld again:

http://www.jetwashimages.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_3490.jpg


Camera: Canon 20D
Lens: Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS
Shutter: 0.6 sec.
Aperture: F/18
ISO: 100
Focal Length: 24mm

[Edited 2006-10-07 19:19:00]

User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

I personally went through a DSLR dilemma today.....

I have a 350D and wanted a second body, so I looked at both the 30D and the brand-new 400D. At first, I thought the 30D would be by far the better choice, until I read some reviews of both cams compared side-by-side.

Although in theory the 400D is actually below the 30D (somewhere between the 350D and the 30D) it is, spec-wise, much more advanced. I'm not bothered about the new self-cleaning sensor but some of the other features make it more than a match for its bigger brother.

It uses exactly the same 9-point AF system, has 2.1 effective megapixels more and, best of all, is a hell of a lot less money. It is also less noisy than the 30D.

The reviews I've seen to date suggest that a lot of potential 30D buyers will convert to the 400D, and with good reason too. Don't forget that the most important bit of any setup is the lens and not the camera itself - it doesn't matter how good your camera is, it won't perform with crappy glass (or plastic, more to the point!).

You may choose not to heed my advice, but I'd go for the 400D and spend the money saved on some damn expensive lenses.

Anyone else agree?

Karl


User currently offlineMygind66 From Spain, joined May 2004, 1058 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

Chad..

Beautiful images, specially the second one. A monopod is a good tool to have anyway..

Cheers

Enrique


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 10):
Chad..
A monopod is a good tool to have anyway..

Hmmm, maybe Ill try that next time.  Wink


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
The 24-70mm F/2.8 L is a non Image Stabilized lens.

Sorry, typo. How is the 24-105 IS? I heard the image quality was a bit lower than the 24-70, but it has IS where the 24-70 doesn't.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
I'd go for the 400D and spend the money saved on some damn expensive lenses.

I know the 400D is a great camera, at an incredible value, but I'm looking at something of higher quality. A main issue for me was the small grip of the 400D, and the 30D has better manual controls, so I'm going to compromise slightly on the lenses.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5079 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
The reviews I've seen to date suggest that a lot of potential 30D buyers will convert to the 400D,

Once again, the 'mystery' reviews surface.....

Sure would love to read some of them.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
best of all, is a hell of a lot less money.

Just why exactly do you think that is?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
spec-wise, much more advanced.

Can you list them all out for us?


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

Quoting LHB727230Adv (Reply 12):
How is the 24-105 IS?



Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Its great glass and highly recommended.


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 14):
Quoting LHB727230Adv (Reply 12):
How is the 24-105 IS?

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Its great glass and highly recommended.

I was asking about image quality compared to the 24-70, since I don't know if I should go for (from what I read) higher image quality on the 24-70, or the IS on the 24-105.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

I like the quality produced by both lenses but opted for the IS in the 24-105mm. The focal length is great as well.

Here are samples taken with both lenses. The F-5 is 1600x.  Wink


Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images




Canon 24-70mm F/2.8 L

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
Anyone else agree?

No, absolutely do not agree.  Smile


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

Hey! Just noticed,....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images


That was my last squadron! Nice one Chad.


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 18):
Nice one Chad.

Thanks Jeff.


User currently offlineDC3 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 50 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4969 times:

Chad.

I notice that the three air-to-air shots are taken with the 24 - 70 and the others are taken with the 24 - 105. Any particular reason? I'm going through the same decision process at the moment and any input would be gratefully received. I have had two of the earlier versions of the 28 - 105 (non-L, non-IS) and have not been especially happy with either of them.

Thanks,

Chris


User currently offlineLHB727230Adv From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4960 times:

Thanks for all the comments so far. After reading some more reviews on the net, and all your replies, I haven't really been convinced that the 24-70 L or 24-105 L IS are good enough lenses for me to spend money on, so I will probably go for the 17-40 L and 50 f/1.4 combo with the 70-200 f/4 L IS (Lineup 3) as it is the cheapest and greatest value. Should I find that I am missing the 10-22 wide angle, I can always buy it and upgrade to lineup 2.

More comments welcome, cheers,
Alex  camera   bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Referring to a reply by JeffM, why the sarcasm? Reviews I have read and folks I've spoken to DO suggest that the introduction of the 400D will take sales away from the 30D. That's not my opinion particularly, I'm simply stating what I've read. I for one was going to buy a 30D but instead chose a 400D, simply because image quality is better, so that's testimony to my theory.

I'm well aware the 30D is, overall, a better camera (hence the price difference) but in many circumstances its results will be no better (perhaps in some cases they may be worse) than the 400D. My friend has a 30D but admits that the image quality of the 400D is slightly better, so there's no bias there.

And seeing as you've asked for a list of the 400D's advanced features (comparable directly with or better than the 30D), here we go:

10.1MP as opposed to 8.2MP (I suppose you're now going to tell me that 8.2 is better than 10.1, are you?)
9-point AF system, identical to the one used in the 30D
Self-cleaning sensor (two types of cleaning available)
2.5" LCD screen, I believe of equal or better resolution than the 30D
Auto LCD off sensor
Picture style

Not an advanced feature but the price is very good too.

Now here's the advantages of the 30D:

Sturdier alloy body (this helps bumps the price up)
5FPS as opposed to 3FPS
More advanced manual functions and pre-capture picture control

So looking at all this, in my opinion the 400D is overall a better camera, when cost is also taken into consideration. Oh, and by the way, if you bother to read my post carefully, you'll find that I NEVER ONCE said that the 30D is an inferior camera. Finally, I was just expressing my opinion, and I thought my input might help - at the end of the day, although the guy's got a lot to spend, he still has a maximum budget, and mine was but another (economic) suggestion. Nothing wrong with lowering the budget for the camera and increasing it for the lenses.

So next time you want to write something that slams my opinion and attempts to belittle me, you could at least read my posts a little more thoroughly so as not to cause offence.

Thank you.

Karl


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Quoting DC3 (Reply 20):
Chad.

I notice that the three air-to-air shots are taken with the 24 - 70 and the others are taken with the 24 - 105. Any particular reason?

I rented the 24-70mm F/2.8 L for the air-to-airs and shortly after that I ordered the 24-105mm F/4 L IS.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
Reviews I have read

Could you not just share them with us? Usually when people make statements like you have, they back them up.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
Now here's the advantages of the 30D:

Seems like you failed to mention a 'few':
Metering Characteristics: Multi-Segment,+ Spot
ISO Equivalencies the xti can't do: 125,160,250,320,500,640,1000,1600,3200
Number of Scene Modes: 9, (xti=6)
Maximum Shutter Speed: 1/8000 vs the xti 1/4000
30d has a DC input, xti doesn't
A top panel LCD
the XTi's viewfinder is smaller and more distant than cameras such as the 30D

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
So next time you want to write something that slams my opinion and attempts to belittle me, you could at least read my posts a little more thoroughly so as not to cause offence.

No thanks, I'll 'slam' as you say, as I see fit.  Wink


25 JakTrax : Well you may wish to continue your childish tirade but I personally have better things to do, like actually photograph some aeroplanes. Oh, and I thin
26 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : Hi Karl. I must have missed that as well. Magazine name please?
27 Mrk25 : In another post you said "I do own a higher end Canon than a 350D" yet here you are looking for a second body to go with your 350D??
28 Post contains images JeffM : So what is your "higher end" body? Magazines have websites. What Magazine was it then? Or did you just browse through it at the grocery store?
29 Post contains images LHB727230Adv : Lets not get off topic here, JakTrax and JeffM. I really appreciate the camera body input both of you are making, but as I said, I have already decide
30 DC3 : Thanks for getting back to me. Chris
31 JakTrax : OK, let's put in some input regarding lenses right now. I'm not willing to carry this stupid thread on the way it's going. I WAS looking for a second
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