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One More Time On Air To Air.  
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

Hey guys, I had made a thread a while back about shooting air to air between two Cubs. Well, finally, we have the shoot set up tomorrow morning, weather permitting. There is a chance it will be bumpy so I am worried a little about shutter speed/prop blur. I shoot most of my ground prop shots at 1/125th for good blur. I am hoping to shoot at 1/250th since I am planning on using my 70-200 2.8 IS lens so I can cover the focal length rule. I am just wondering if anyone has some example of 1/250th prop blur. Here are the shots of the 2 aircraft I will be shooting tomorrow. These are at 1/125th.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fiveholer/sets/72157594255084539/

Thanks,
Danny


Bring back Bethune!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFly747 From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1497 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Hi Danny,

this is shot @ 1/250th. I actually prefer 1/250th for prop blur, any lower and you kind of "lose" the prop. That's just my preference of course.

Ivan



Contrails Aviation Photography
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Looks good to me. I like the closeness of that shot too. I just hope its not too bumpy tomorrow!

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineKukkudrill From Malta, joined Dec 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

All on 1/250:


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Photo © Charles Polidano
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Photo © Charles Polidano



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Photo © Charles Polidano
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Photo © Charles Polidano




Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Quoting Fiveholer (Thread starter):
I am just wondering if anyone has some example of 1/250th prop blur

Check my photos Danny, they are all 1/250 or slower.
My advice is to take a couple first at 1/500 or so just to get a feel for it and if you screw up later on at least you have some material left.

My expirience with "IS" inside an aircraft isn't great and I don't use it anymore.
I would not use the 70-200 anyway as it is way to big and you can't keep it steady in the wind, use something like a 28-70 instead.( don't be surprised about the tremendoes wind force at 100kts, in the props draft you are probably looking at 250km/h wind speed)
As long as you keep the cam exactly level it is fine but as soon as you tilt it a bit it starts to freak out.
I always like to do a roll over and shoot the subject from the top downwards which with "IS" on just leaves you with a blurry something.

This is taken from a Piper Cub.

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Photo © Willem Honders


Which is not the best platform due to the wing support right in the middle(if you are sitting in the back)
It looks something like this:



So it leaves you with only a few options, a little forward or aft shooting.
A few more tips:
- Make sure you are wearing something very warm, with the lower and top door open it will be freezing cold in the back of the Cub(you are catching all the wind).
During the Glider shoot I was freezing my ass off at 6000ft dressed in shorts and t-shirt only even though it was 40+ Celcius down below.
- Tape your sunhood with sticky tape to the lens so you won't lose it or leave it home.
- Not much space in the Cub so leave your bag down below and take your cam with lens of your choice only.

Good luck,
Willem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Wow, good advice and examples guys! I am afraid of the cold. Low of 38F tonight and we are planning on going up around 830-9am, so its gonna be cold! I have no choice but to use the 70-200 or 100-400. The 17-40 won't be enough! I will be shooting from the rear seat of a Cub. Not a true Cub, but a dead on copy of a Super Cub called a Top Cub. Made by Cubcrafters out of Yakima, WA. Pretty unique opportunity for me. The Cub I will be in was the 2nd one of it's kind built and it has been featured in AOPA magazine and it is on the Cubcrafter's site. I will be shooting it and also the 13th of its kind built. Flown by the friend of the owner of the first Cub. I guess I will just see how things go and take lots and get some keepers. Being my first try at air to air. I will heed the advice of taping the hood on! I didn't even think about that. Thanks again guys! Here are the 2 aircraft I will be shooting...we plan to do some shots over the lake that the private strip resides on!


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Photo © Danny Fritsche - Airplanespotters



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Photo © Danny Fritsche - Airplanespotters



Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

Make sure the plane you shoot flies with as high RPM as possible, so you can get a decent prop blur with faster shutter speeds  Smile

Other than that, have fun!



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Man, well, it was tough for my first time. First, I had to shoot through the glass, it was too cold this morning. Second, it was bumpy when it came time to shoot the 2nd plane. I am struggling with color while looking at these. How is the color on this? I know its not the best angle, but I wanna just make sure the color isn't messed up.

http://www.airliners.net/uf/350/1161378279wba6xM.jpg

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 4):
would not use the 70-200 anyway as it isrnwayrnto big and you can't keep it steady in the wind, use somethingrnlike arn28-70 instead.( don't be surprised about the tremendoes wind force at 100kts, in the props draft you are probably looking at 250km/h wind speed)

Not necessarily true...I was shooting air to ground shots back in June with no door and even though the 70-200 did act like a big sail,shots around 200mm are still possible with pin sharp results. I had lot's of keepers!


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Photo © Vasco Garcia



Vasco G.

p.s. We had about 90F on the ground and I have to admit, I was not as high (probably around 2500ft) and it was quite comfy


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 7):
I know its not the best angle, but I wanna just make sure the color isn't messed up.

Color looks a bit muted to me. Still, a nice shot just the same. Did you manage to get any with the pilot in view? If you had been equal to or lower in altitude, you would have been able to get the pilot in view as well. (you probably already know that.....  Wink)

I would add a little 'digital velvia' to it on a mask layer, coloring only what you think needs to stand out a bit.

How did you meter this?


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

I do have a couple with the pilot in view. As far as metering, I bit the bullet and just shot tv mode 1/250th. I was doing all I could to get comfy with shooting in such tight quarters. It was definately a learning experience for me. They were happy with the LCD previews and want to set up another date to shoot when its warmer and we have some nice clouds for backgrounds.

http://www.airliners.net/uf/350/1161379946pq9fth.jpg

This one is a bit soft. These are just rough, quick edits to see if they are gonna work or not.

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 7):
First, I had to shoot through the glass, it was too cold this morning.

Oh you wimp................ Big grin

Doesn't look to bad though, congratulations.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 10):
As far as metering, I bit the bullet and just shot tv mode 1/250th. I was doing all I could to get comfy with shooting in such tight quarters.

TV isn't a metering mode, goofball!  Wink You must still be frozen!.... I was refering to center weighted, spot, evaluative, matrix etc. I forgot to tell you that unless you were going to be getting lots of sky in the frame, matrix or center weighted would have been a good choice as the ground acts like a big grey card.

What ever you used, it looks good! I wanna see more.


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
TV isn't a metering mode, goofball! Wink

Well, blah! Big grin I would have to check the exif! If it would have been up to me, I would have had the door open. Its the 60+ year old owner that made the decision.  Wink Never the less, there will be more opportunities. They want to try again after a cold front with nice, crisp skies. It was kind of hazy yesterday morning. Also, one of the pilots holds a pretty high place with Cessna and it sounds like some Citation flights might be in my future!

If you want to see some more, check them out here. I am still picking and choosing. Screeners, would it be a party foul if I uloaded like 2 air to airs of each plus a ground shot? I have some I like but don't want to hurt myself with the double rule!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fiveholer/sets/72157594337257428/

I still have lots to look through.

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineDC3 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 50 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Hello Danny.

I just had a look at your link and I think you should be happy with your first attempt at air-to-air. I paticularly liked the ones from slightly above, such as IMG 9427 and 9713. Good-looking aeroplanes, too.

I wonder if the slightly muted colours that others have commented on are partially caused by the glass you were shooting through? It's inevitably going to degrade the images to some extent.

Anyway, it would be good to hear what you finally decided to use lens-wise and whether you were happy with your choice.

Cheers,

Chris


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3964 times:

They look "pretty good" to me especially considering you took them through perspex, although perhaps I shouldn't comment as I am a pilot and not really a photographer.

User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Hi Danny,

I like these three a lot, think they would do well online here but then again I'm probably not the best person to ask for centering advice.







Cheers,
Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

nice work choc! when you're online next give me a look at the set please?!


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

Thank guys! It was really a great time. From the response of the pilots after seeing some preliminary shots. We will go up again in the future. Great guys they are! I ended up shooting with the 70-200 2.8L IS. There was NO way I could have gotten anything with anything shorter. We flew quite tight on the first flight but were further apart on the 2nd due to it getting bumpy. There is no way I could have used my 100-400 either. At least not with the door closed, VERY tight quarters. I also think a reason for not having as many keepers of the blue/white aircraft was due to the reason of him being on the right side flying back to base. I found it much harder shooting to my right than to the left. I guess it was all arm position while holding the lens. Flo, that first shot is the owner's son and my dad watching the first cub arrive at the strip after a 30 minute flight from Tulsa. He did some low passes before holding while we got up in the air to meet. The 2nd, I have uploaded a similar shot, taken just a bit earlier than that one. That shot is plane owner and owner's house that he is building at his 60 acre property which also includes his strip and hangar. Awesome place. He wanted a shot like that. 3rd one is on climbout from the strip heading up the river to another strip where we landed, ate breakfast and switched planes. Overall, an awesome day and a neat experience.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 17):
nice work choc! when you're online next give me a look at the set please?!

Open your eyes you sock, there is a link above to the set! Big grin  Wink

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
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