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An Improvement To Photographers Choice?  
User currently offlineQ330 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1460 posts, RR: 21
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4429 times:

Hey all,

I've just had an idea for a possible improvement to the Photographers Choice feature. Looking back at previous discussions about the feature, one of the main concerns was that Photographers Choice more often than not ends up with high-hitting photos on top. It's obvious that a high-hitting photo is more likely to beat a less popular photo even if most photographers would consider the less popular one a better shot.

Maybe this can be avoided by ranking photos by number of Photographers Choice votes per view. There are some fantastic shots that don't make the top of last 24 hours. Going by average Photogs Choice votes would give the best of these unlucky ones a chance to get the front page exposure they deserve.

Another complaint that was brought up in past discussions was that Photographers Choice winners tend to stay in the top spot for as long as they are eligible (often almost a week). Using average votes should eliminate this problem since the huge volume of hits gained by being on the front page wouldn't necessarily secure so many more Photogs Choice votes that no other photo could overtake it.

What do you think?

-Q


Long live the A330!
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBY123A From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 23 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 4404 times:

I think we probably all agree that the system is somewhat flawed – unless it’s your own photo that gets to be number one!

What I would like to see is the top 10, 15 or 20 ‘Photographer’s Choices’ being rotated on the front page, as happens with the ‘Top-Rated Photos’. This could also be applied to the ‘Top of the Last 24 hours’, it would make for a more interesting front page and an increased coverage for the many well deserved photos that don’t quite make it to the number one spot.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

Quoting Q330 (Thread starter):
What do you think?

I'd say it's not broke, let's not try and fix it.

Quoting BY123A (Reply 1):
I think we probably all agree that the system is somewhat flawed

Evidently not "all"......... Wink


User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
I'd say it's not broke, let's not try and fix it.

I was flying the A300 for 6 years; we flew most of the times to the Canary Islands, where the weather doesn't change much, particularly in LPA, so the joke went that they published a METAR 1st of January and they'll use the same one until the end of the year.

Same applies to JeffM comments regarding suggested changes of the site.

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineQ330 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1460 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
I'd say it's not broke, let's not try and fix it.

It may not be broke, but it's certainly not as good as it could be (well said Javier). If you were to have a look through some of the previous discussions about this you'd see there are plenty of people who think there's room for improvement.

I've suggested this modification in particular because it should be very easy for Johan to implement but will have a significant impact on how Photographers Choice works. I think it could work even better than the front page time limits that some have suggested because even with time limits, the highest hitting photos (especially previous top-of-day shots) would still be the ones getting on the front page most often.

-Q



Long live the A330!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
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PHOTO SCREENER

I think we should have some sort of 'virtual trohpy room' for awards for things like top of last 24 hours, Photographers choice, top uploaders, things like that.

User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4295 times:
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Quoting Q330 (Thread starter):

Maybe this can be avoided by ranking photos by number of Photographers Choice votes per view. There are some fantastic shots that don't make the top of last 24 hours. Going by average Photogs Choice votes would give the best of these unlucky ones a chance to get the front page exposure they deserve.

I don't really understand what you mean, perhaps you could explain what exactly you mean by average.

I agree the photog choice tend to be up for a long time sometimes and are hard to overtake, and most of the time it's just the most popular that's not a cabin shot or window shot etc.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4295 times:
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Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
I think we should have some sort of 'virtual trohpy room' for awards for things like top of last 24 hours, Photographers choice, top uploaders, things like that.

I'm sure people will like that Smile

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 2):
I'd say it's not broke, let's not try and fix it.

No it's not broke because it never worked properly in the first place.
I still believe that "photographers choice" is not the Photographers choice but just another "Public choice" something we all ready have.
So Jeff I do agree with you there is nothing to fix, let's just change the name in Public or Viewers choice and we are done.

Of course A.net could keep the name as it is but change the system to a true Photographers Choice by only letting well established photographers choose.
In my view a more interesting system.

Willem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4265 times:
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Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
Of course A.net could keep the name as it is but change the system to a true Photographers Choice by only letting well established photographers choose.
In my view a more interesting system.

Just because someone has few pictures on here doesn't mean they are not established Wink

I have to disagree Willem, it's actually the photographers choosing here, so it's our own fault if we chose pictures we don't like, weird isn't it Wink

Perhaps a double or quadruple thumbnail would make things better.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

Don't know if it fits in with the conversation but, having been on the front page for over a week, having been put there by fellow photogs, was a really nice feeling! It kinda made it all worthwhile. If I never get it again I can at least say I've been there, for that reason I say leave it be, it seems OK to me. I can't remember exactly how many views/hits my shot had when it initially went on, but it wasn't anywhere near the 50k+ it finished on. I think it's a great feature on A.net, having won it makes it even better!
Spencer.
(Waiting for his trophy!)  goldmedal 



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11572 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

I think it's fine the way it is because in my opinion, it's a higher honor to get Photographers' Choice than Top of the Day. Your photo should be up longer if you get it. I'm also okay with it because it's the choice that the photographer contributors to this site have made.

Although, I would say that once your photo is selected as Photographers' Choice, the voting on it should end.

As for trophy room... of course I'm for it. But I think another good idea related to this one is to just put a little banner under the photo saying "This was Top of the Day on MM/DD/YYYY" or "This was Photographers' Choice the week of ..." etc.



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User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

Quoting Javibi (Reply 3):
Same applies to JeffM comments regarding suggested changes of the site.

Please forgive me for having an opinion, especially one you disagree with.... Yeah sure

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
No it's not broke because it never worked properly in the first place.

...In your opinion...... Please clarify that, unless of course you now are in complete control of the website.  Wink Which, we all know, isn't even close to being the case. So to boil it down, you get a vote, I get a vote. Simple. That is if there were ever going to be a vote, which in itself is highly unlikely.

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
So Jeff I do agree with you there is nothing to fix

Excellent.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I think it's fine the way it is

....ooooooooh be careful...... you don't want to be labled a 'disenter' like me. That will be an immediate revocation of your membership in the Mutual Admiration Society....


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

Quoting Timdegroot (Reply 9):
Just because someone has few pictures on here doesn't mean they are not established

Which is why I didn't comment on who is established and who isn't, that's not up to me.
But we do know that the majority of the votes right now are probably not anyway.

Quoting Timdegroot (Reply 9):
I have to disagree Willem

That's fine Tim, no problem.

Quoting Timdegroot (Reply 9):
it's actually the photographers choosing here

That's my point, we don't know who is voting or not.
Might be the local lunatic we just don't know.
We only know that it is open for everybody and since there are more "visitors" then "contributors" (I guess) we can only assume that the final outcome is not the photographers choice.

Quoting Timdegroot (Reply 9):
so it's our own fault if we chose pictures we don't like, weird isn't it

No it's not our fault and not weird at all.
The "normal" visitors out number the active contributors probably by a factor 1000 or so, it does not matter whether you and I vote for something special.

Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of the idea but I don't think the system is worth the title at this moment.
I just would like to see a true Photographers choice.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

I thought only photographers could vote, no?

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
So to boil it down, you get a vote, I get a vote. Simple.

For the simple minded yes true.
My suggestion is just that a vote for something called "Photographers choice" should come from Photographers only....... who ever they are.
If that filter is not build in the system then simply call it something else, simple isn't it.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
So Jeff I do agree with you there is nothing to fix

Excellent.

That's dirty play Jeff.
Usually done by tabloids only  Wink



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting Jan Mogren (Reply 14):
I thought only photographers could vote, no?

Yes and no, everybody with the significant number of 1 photos in the base can vote.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

You have a point.

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineFly747 From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1497 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 16):
Yes and no, everybody with the significant number of 1 photos in the base can vote.

What's the big deal anyways? I don't think it should matter how many photos you have on here. Some photogs upload quality, not quantity. I think it works out just fine.

Ivan


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11572 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 16):
Yes and no, everybody with the significant number of 1 photos in the base can vote.

Not everyone is all about getting a large number of photos in the db. There's a guy being touted in another thread (about the new hot-shots) that has 3 photos in the DB. They're all excellent. He should vote.

Even still, those that only have 1 photo on here (however many people that is) are still photographers. I doubt there are many people that just happened to have a picture of an airplane they shot with their Kodak Disc110 and were able to upload it to this site. Getting 1 photo uploaded to this site is probably indicative of having the skill required to call yourself a photographer.

[Edited 2006-10-23 21:45:59]


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User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Quoting Fly747 (Reply 18):
What's the big deal anyways?

What gave you the impression it's a big deal for me ?
It's not.
Somebody asked a question and I gave my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.
Thought that was the function of this forum.

Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
Not everyone is all about getting a large number of photos in the db.

I did not put down any criteria which should have been accomplished.

Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
There's a guy being touted in another thread (about the new hot-shots) that has 3 photos in the DB. They're all excellent. He should vote.

Why ?

Being a licensed engineer and mentor of new guys at my department I see many come and go.
Some of them very talented and some very good still they do not get a license before completing the whole training program(which normally takes between 3 and 5 years), that's life as we know it.
Like a student pilot does not get his license after 3 well performed flights.

Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
Even still, those that only have 1 photo on here (however many people that is) are still photographers.

I fail to see the relation between the two, sorry.

Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
Getting 1 photo uploaded to this site is probably indicative of having the skill required to call yourself a photographer.

Or was lucky for a change.
We just don't know.
Which was my point in the first place.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineFly747 From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1497 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 20):
What gave you the impression it's a big deal for me ?
It's not.
Somebody asked a question and I gave my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.
Thought that was the function of this forum.

Willem, it wasn't meant at you personally, but I don't see the difference between 1 or 100 photos. Photogs Choice is voted by the photographers, hence the name and you can only vote once so it's not even getting abused.

Ivan


User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
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I think the discussion should focus on what should be done with the votes not who should vote.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11572 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Hi Willem,

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 20):
Why ?

Because he's not just some yahoo. He is a photographer, and can spot a good photograph. He would know what's hard, and what's easy, and what's well done, etc. It's not analogous to learning to fly, or learning to be an engineer. There are many routes to becoming a photographer - getting a photo on A.net is fairly indicative that someone has taken one of those many routes.

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 20):
I fail to see the relation between the two, sorry.

Because chance snapshotters generally don't get photos accepted. And the lucky few are just that - few. Not enough to skew the results, and therefore, not enough to worry about to the point of changing the system to keep them out. As a computer engineer, I'm always careful with fixing bugs - you might introduce a new one.



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User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 20):
What gave you the impression it's a big deal for me ?

...hmmmm.....your incessant ranting about it? Just a guess.

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 20):
Like a student pilot does not get his license after 3 well performed flights

Oh brother......nice analogy.

Quoting Fly747 (Reply 21):
Photogs Choice is voted by the photographers, hence the name and you can only vote once so it's not even getting abused.

BINGO. Obviously not enough for some.


25 JRadier : This would be a very nice addition.
26 Q330 : Yes, lets please keep this on topic! I proposed a simple modification to the way Photographers Choice votes are counted that I believe would help giv
27 Aviopic : I didn't take it that way Ivan don't worry and even if it was it would not bother me anyway. We are just exchanging idea's each from our own viewpoin
28 JeffM : Everybody is new here once upon a time, whether or not they have been shooting for 30 years or 30 days. I value the opinion of new and old members, e
29 Eadster : Yeah strongly agree here. I've always thought it would be nice to have a "featured photographer", where we could feature some of their favourite shot
30 Post contains images Javibi : Oh, no, please, YOU forgive us lower beings for having opinions And BTW, I did not say I disagreed... j
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