Beechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 808 posts, RR: 52 Posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4033 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Hi all, time to bring back the Masterclass.
Instead of focusing on a specific items of the post processing, let´s have a look a the Process itself. Tell us which programs (maybe even your Hardware setup) you are using and share your workflows with us.
Both JPG and RAW workflows are welcome, also with explanations of he differences between the both.
Once again, consider this to be a learning environment and be nice to each other.
have fun,
Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
WakeTurbulence From United States, joined Apr 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 22 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4007 times:
I shoot JPEG with the 300D + Sigma 50-500, Canon 70-200 f/4L, Canon 18-55 kit, or Sigma 10-20mm. The workflow changes a little with each lens due to the lens quality, but overall it stays the same. I use Photoshop 6.0. My workflow goes as follows:
Rotate - With the grid on I will check any verticals for angle. If it is off I will rotate gradually until I get it level. I only rotate in one step though, as doing it in various steps introduces variables.
Crop - Either 3X2 or 4X3, depending on the shot. As a general rule I use the windows on the aircraft for vertical centering, but it can vary greatly by situation.
Resize - I resize in steps, which seems to help reduce some jagged edges. For a 3X2 crop I try to resize the width to 2400, 2100, 1800, 1500, 1200, and then either 1024X683 or 1125X750.
Dust Spots - I use the equalize function to search for spots. If I see any I will use the clone stamp tool to clone them out.
Saturation - I generally up saturation overall or by channels by 5-10 points.
Brightness/Contrast - Usually up both by 3-10 points.
Curves - If needed I will use it to add some fill flash on a dark shot.
Sharpen - First I create a duplicate layer (background copy). Then I will use the magic wand tool to mask off any areas I don't want to sharpen. Never sharpen any sky as it will lead to grain. Next I will use USM. My first pass is usually between 50-125%, 0.3, and 0. I will evaluate sharpness and add a second or third pass if needed. I then use the eraser tool at an opacity of about 5-10% to gently erase any jagged edges left from the sharpening. Once finished I will flatten the layer I created.
If I am satisfied with the edit, I will use the Save As function to save the picture, naming it with a unique file name. I save at level 12 unless it is over 1MB, then I will use 11.
It takes me between 2-10 minutes to edit a shot. Anything longer than 15-20 minutes and it probably will not be uploaded. After saving the file I will usually archive it for a day or two and keep checking it to make sure I did not miss anything. If I still like it I will upload it.
-Matt
JohnJ From United States, joined Jun 2000, 1287 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3971 times:
Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1): Crop - Either 3X2 or 4X3, depending on the shot. As a general rule I use the windows on the aircraft for vertical centering, but it can vary greatly by situation.
Resize - I resize in steps, which seems to help reduce some jagged edges. For a 3X2 crop I try to resize the width to 2400, 2100, 1800, 1500, 1200, and then either 1024X683 or 1125X750
Interesting - I normally just use the PS crop tool set to 1024x693. Is there really that much difference in cropping then resizing as a separate step?
If as I suspect the answer is yes, how is this accomplished? I have PS7 and the only way I can figure to do this is to mark off the area I want to crop with the marquee tool set to a specific aspect ratio, then select the Image --> Crop command. That seems to work fine, but it doesn't appear that you can move the "lassoed" area around once it's been marked, and there's no center point as with the crop tool. Is there a better way of doing this?
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 4128 posts, RR: 53 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3958 times:
My workflow is similar to Jeff's
Although I will often start with a RAW file.
My sharpen routine is either Jeff's Smart Sharpen Mask action( maybe Jeff will provide the link to that once again) or Fergul Mclean's Layer sharpen routine Click Here
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 3): If as I suspect the answer is yes, how is this accomplished?
JohnJ in PS7(and I beleive most other versions of PS, PS Elements and similar applications) select the crop tool and in the tool bar at the top of screen you will see boxes for Width, Height & Resolution. Enter the desired aspect ratio here. i.e. W3cm x H2cm or W4cm xH3cm etc (cm/inches does not matter). Leave the resolution blank. This gives you a crop box of the exact aspect ratio you are after, this can be moved around as you please, even rotated but IMHO leveling is best done before this step.
The result will have varying resolution depending on a/the size of your original and b/how much you crop.
It is unlikely that you will have A.net levels of quality if the image size(pixel width) at this stage is much less than double the final requirement i.e for a final 1024 px wide image you would like to have more than 2000 px at this stage.
From there do your curves adjustments, saturation etc then resize to your final requirement and sharpen.
There are proponents of doing an initial sharpening pass before resizing but that discussion could make the Civ/Av AvB wars look like polite conversation.
Cheers
Of course old planes are safe, how do you think they got to be old?
Brett From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3954 times:
Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1): It takes me between 2-10 minutes to edit a shot. Anything longer than 15-20 minutes and it probably will not be uploaded. After saving the file I will usually archive it for a day or two and keep checking it to make sure I did not miss anything. If I still like it I will upload it.
Quoting JeffM (Reply 2): If the image is exposed properly, the above steps take about 2 minutes, the majority of which is spent looking for dust.
Very interesting......at the moment while learning how to do things I can easily spend an hour or so on a pic and then come back to it again the following day and spend MORE time on it! Sheeesh!
NIKV69 From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8301 posts, RR: 56 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3868 times:
Well I am far from Masterclass but I keep it simple.
In raw I fool with the exposure and shadows then open in PS.
1.Level
2.Crop (I use Fergul's #)
3.Resize (Been doing good with 1200 lately)
4.Clean the dustspots
5.Little tweaking with levels
6.Brightness (Only if needed)
7.Little color enhancement
8.Sharpen
9. Upload to anet!
Dlednicer From United States, joined May 2005, 265 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3855 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
My workflow looks much like those already mentioned, but I do two additional things. Often, particularly for indoor photos in low light, I will first use Helicon Filter on the "Standard" setting to reduce noise:
In some cases, I will make the filtered image one layer in Photoshop and the unfiltered another layer. Then, by using the eraser on the filtered image, I select what of unfiltered image gets preserved. This is really handy for reducing the noise in pavement in long range shots and the noise in the sky for upwards shots:
The second technique is similar. I'll make copies of the image on multiple layers and use the eraser to break the image up into components. Then, I can work the curves on the different layers to get the image I'm after. In the image below, I had to lighten the black helicopter a lot to get some range on it. However, if I used the curves on the whole image, it bleached. If I remember right, the pavement and sky was a layer that had been filtered, the other helicopters were a layer and the subject helicopter was another layer.
In this image, the problem was I was shooting early in the morning, before the sun was really up. Everything in the foreground was a little dark, while the sky was a little too light. I made the sky a layer and everything else was another layer. By doing this, I was able to improve the levels in the each layer without killing everything in the other layer.
Bigbrokerbo From Germany, joined May 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
Hello,
first of all I'd like to say that think that I'm far away from reaching
the masterclass in photo editing. But I'm always trying to get better.
My Equipment is a 300D. Mostly i use the Canon 70-300 IS USM for aviation photography.
So here is my current workflow.
I shot in RAW. I use CaptureOne to edit the RAW files.
1. Adjusting the exposure with the automatic tool.
2. Adjusting the white balance with the automatic tool.
3. Sharpening a little bit (Standard look, about 50-90).
4. Converting to TIFF.
5. Open the image with Photoshop CS2
6. Leveling
7. Croping
8. Erasing the dustspots with a dublicate layer wich is equalized. Using the clone stamp tool.
9. Checking the histogram and adjusting the light levels.
10. Adjusting Brightness/Contrast (about 2-10 digits each)
11. Resizing to 1200*xxx or 1024*xxx
12. Sharpening using the USM tool.
13. Save as JPEG, highest quality (level 12)
14. Looking at the picture which is ready for upload. And when I'm satisfied with the result i upload it to a.net
Normally it takes me 5-10 minutes for each picture. Most time i spent for leveling and searching for dustspots.
The pictures i get rejected are mostly for quality or oversharpend reasons. So I have to improve this. What i've learned in the past is: If the weather is dull while shooting pictures all your editing skills with PS are useless. The pictures have a lack of quality which can't be repaired.
Bubbles From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 56 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3816 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
This is an interesting topic!
I am using very similar steps as Matt mentioned in Reply 1. But, I still have a question about multiple layers. What's the difference among 'Merge Down', 'Merge Visible' and 'Flatten Image'. Which option should I use if I want to have the best quality in the final JPG file. I am using Photoshop CS2 v9.0.2.
PUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4146 posts, RR: 63 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3811 times:
1.) Exposure correction if needed (RAW in Nikon Capture)
2.) Levels correction if needed (RAW in Nikon Capture)
3.) Save as jpeg and continue in Photoshop
4.) Adjust angle
5.) Crop
6.) Cloning out dust using layers
7.) resize
8.) Sharpen with USM (no fiddling around wtih layers)
Save with max qual as jpg.
EDDL From Germany, joined Dec 2002, 733 posts, RR: 30 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3793 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 11): 1.) Exposure correction if needed (RAW in Nikon Capture)
2.) Levels correction if needed (RAW in Nikon Capture)
3.) Save as jpeg and continue in Photoshop
4.) Adjust angle
5.) Crop
6.) Cloning out dust using layers
7.) resize
8.) Sharpen with USM (no fiddling around wtih layers)
Save with max qual as jpg.
Double compression? I hope you meant TIFF in point 3 ...
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 4128 posts, RR: 53 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
Quoting EDDL (Reply 12): Double compression? I hope you meant TIFF in point 3 ...
Remember Phil, the majority of photographers do this anyway by shooting jpg in camera.
I would put money on the fact that by exercising a little control over Nikon Capture, Peter is getting better quality JPG than most.
Cheers
Chris
Of course old planes are safe, how do you think they got to be old?
EDDL From Germany, joined Dec 2002, 733 posts, RR: 30 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3691 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14): Remember Phil, the majority of photographers do this anyway by shooting jpg in camera.
I would put money on the fact that by exercising a little control over Nikon Capture, Peter is getting better quality JPG than most.
This is true Chris, however we are in a masterclass here and unexperienced uploaders should learn how to do it. But this is not the way to maximize quality. Certain cameras (esp the Nikons ... ) tend to have more noise than others and JPEG double compression will make it much worse. With todays powerful computers in mind which handle large files easily I don't see a reason to go the RAW/NEF=>JPEG=>JPEG way.
Q330 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1460 posts, RR: 34 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3689 times:
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 3): it doesn't appear that you can move the "lassoed" area around once it's been marked, and there's no center point as with the crop tool. Is there a better way of doing this?
With the rectangular marquee tool still selected, just click and drag anywhere in the selected area. Be sure to actually move the selection, otherwise when you release the mouse button, the area will be deselected.
PUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4146 posts, RR: 63 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
Quoting EDDL (Reply 15): This is true Chris, however we are in a masterclass here and unexperienced uploaders should learn how to do it
Correct but they should not be mislead either.
I personally think its way over the acceptable limit whats required sometimes. For example :
left stabiliser shows a bit of jaggies or
first 2 letters of titles are jagged or
add 2 points of cyan and remove 2 point of magenta
IMHO way too much requirements for a hobbyist site.
Just my 2 cents.
I am not saying the other ways shown here are bad. They are certainly better than mine but as written above way above the requirements that should be set of a hobbyist site.
Peter
EDDL From Germany, joined Dec 2002, 733 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3674 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 17): I am not saying the other ways shown here are bad. They are certainly better than mine but as written above way above the requirements that should be set of a hobbyist site.
Well ... you are right but in terms of required image quality A.net is way above most professional websites / stock photo agencies. TIFF won't hurt here...
This is going off-topic so I am going to shut up now.
Linco22 From United Kingdom (Northern Ireland), joined Jun 2005, 1369 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3647 times:
My workflow is as follows:
Open
Level
Crop
Layer 1 lighting - adjust to suit, contrast S/H etc if needed and dust spots
Layer 2 colour - adjust if needed
Layer 3 sharpening - USM
Final check
Flatten image
Save as jpeg, either 1024 or 1200x
RAW is similar using RAWshooter essentials. Save as tiff then make the above changes and save as jpeg
Granite From United Kingdom (Scotland), joined May 1999, 5369 posts, RR: 77 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3644 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Hi all
Main rule for me is keep it simple.
I can see people using too may layers, masks, filtering etc. In digital images there is no need to mask the sky and reduce noise then selectively sharpen the image.
PUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4146 posts, RR: 63 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
Quoting Granite (Reply 21):
I can see people using too may layers, masks, filtering etc. In digital images there is no need to mask the sky and reduce noise then selectively sharpen the image.
JeffM From United States, joined May 2005, 3251 posts, RR: 58 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3630 times:
Quoting Granite (Reply 21): I can see people using too may layers, masks, filtering etc. In digital images there is no need to mask the sky and reduce noise then selectively sharpen the image.
Layers are easy, and layer masks easier still, and the most accurate way to apply ANY processsing to an image, but some people still just hit "sharpen" and smile. Right?
NIKV69 From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8301 posts, RR: 56 Reply 25, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3625 times:
Quoting JeffM (Reply 23): Layers are easy, and layer masks easier still, and the most accurate way to apply ANY processsing to an image, but some people still just hit "sharpen" and smile. Right?
That's what I do!
Seriously I have gotten better with layers but I have also found that if the original capture is good I get away with one app of USM. Depends on the photo.
It's Palinpalooza! Coming to your city soon!
26 AviatorG: My personal 11 step work flow (Not used for RAW) 1. Open photo, 2. Level, 2. Crop, 3. Dodge tool (adds metal finish e.g. leading edges, exhaust ports.
27 Aero145: Here is my current workflow: 1. Open in Photoshop CS2 Raw Converter 2. Expose up, if needed, and add contrast. 3. Sharpen, 5 4. Open in Photoshop 5. L
28 PUnmuth@VIE: I think there is something missing .
29 Aero145: This is a thread to learn! Pete, what's missing?
31 Aero145: Michael Bajcar taught me that, when sharpening using Smart Sharpen, use the setting "Remove Lens Blur", rather than "Remove Gaussian Blur" or "Remove
32 Soon7x7: Is it advisable to ALWAYS use a "sharpen tool"despite recording a clean image in raw or tiff? Does JPG conversion degredate the image that much?
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) tend to have more noise than others and JPEG double compression will make it much worse. With todays powerful computers in mind which handle large files easily I don't see a reason to go the RAW/NEF=>JPEG=>JPEG way.
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