SyHopeful From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 10 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2790 times:
This is for all you pros that frequent this board!
I've recently been contacted through a.net by a company that would like to license one of my pictures. I don't know what it will be used for/in, and I definitely don't know how much to ask for it.
I don't need nor want to make some huge profit, but I would like to request a copy of whatever they use it in (I'm assuming it's a publication of some sort) in addition to the licensing fee.
Also, what are the legalities of this? I'm not giving up my copyright by allowing them to use it, am I? Do I need to write up a contract and define usage and terms?
NicolasRubio From Argentina, joined Sep 2005, 581 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2787 times:
Ask them about what they want, if they want a copy for one specific use or the copyrights... No matter what you do and how much they pay you, never EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER in your life sell a copyright!!!
Cheers, Nicolas
Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
Scottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 14 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2767 times:
You need to get more information about what they're going to be using it for!!
Selling a one-time-use license doesn't give up your copyright. You're selling a license for them to use it... but before you request a price, you must know what they intend on using it for. Surprises me that they didn't state that in their initial contact with you...
Never say "never" (or "ever" in this case). Besides, that's a pretty arbitrary statement. You could sell exlusive use of the image for a term, usually 6 or 12 months. So you couldn't use or resell it during that time, but you retain copyright in the long term.
A common practice back in the film days was for photographers selling their works as "art" to sell a single image to a customer and include a scratched copy of the negative. That way the customer had proof that the photo would never be reproduced, and some works of art are worth far more money as one-offs than they are as posters.
Let's say you get a call from agency X. They want to blow your picture up and put it in an airport on a wall in the terminal as an ad for the airport. (This happened to a photog here a couple years back at EWR, I think). Anyway, you sell your copyright to the picture for $5,000.
You just made $5,000. Good job! BUT...
...Let's say someone from a big company sees the photo on the wall and wants to use it in a promo material. And then a Boeing exec sees it and wants to put it on a billboard outside of Renton...
...You can't sell it. You can't market it. Thus, you can't make any more money from it!
So, your $5,000 profit which sounded really, really good at first, now sucks, because you could have made $10,000 or more if you kept the copyright!
Of course, you could always write your contract to give someone unlimited use and all that jazz. Just make sure you are able to re-sell your pictures.
To the OP, why wouldn't you want to make a lot of money? Don't give your work away and don't lowball yourself. Just license your stuff so it makes money for you and keeps making money for you.
CalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2690 times:
Quoting Chrisair (Reply 6): So, your $5,000 profit which sounded really, really good at first, now sucks, because you could have made $10,000 or more if you kept the copyright!
We could list and argue hypothetical situations for the next 5 years. After all, if a well-to-do owner of a C-172 was enamoured with a generic shot of his plane on approach and offered a couple thousand dollars for it I'd sell with all rights it in a second.
It's not an arbitrary "do" or "don't" question. Every situation will be different - how much mass appeal does the image have? How much are they offering to pay versus how much could you potentially make off the image over 5 or 10 years?
Jorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3139 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2681 times:
You should also be aware by the rights the airline has. If it's their plane I think some won't allow you to sell a pic. I once contacted a German airline and asked them about this issue and they forbid to sell the image....but the company who wanted this pic was part of this airline and had already dealt out the usage of the pic.
CalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2673 times:
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 9): If it's their plane I think some won't allow you to sell a pic.
That may be the case in Germany, but in Canada/US copyright law, the determining factor is "what is the subject of the picture?" If the subject is that specific airline or their logo, then they could claim infringement if you sold the picture without their permission.
But if the logo is irrelevant (ie, if the same shot of another airline would look just as good) and if the photo was taken from public land, then you can sell the photo at your own discretion. The only way the airline would have recourse would be if you used the photo to discredit the airline.
This is why A.net doesn't allow up-close logo shots anymore.
INNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3760 posts, RR: 66 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2670 times:
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 9): If it's their plane I think some won't allow you to sell a pic. I once contacted a German airline and asked them about this issue and they forbid to sell the image
...they can't. Probably some office worker told you off because he didn't know better.
I was taking a couple of frames of a LH JU52 this summer when a sales person of LH approached me and said I can't take photos of their aircraft without permission....she took a hike after a friendly expressed "of course I can" though.
Jorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3139 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 10): That may be the case in Germany, but in Canada/US copyright law, the determining factor is "what is the subject of the picture?" If the subject is that specific airline or their logo, then they could claim infringement if you sold the picture without their permission.
Does it apply when I photograph an American (not AA) plane in or even when I sell the overseas.
Quoting INNflight (Reply 11): I was taking a couple of frames of a LH JU52 this summer when a sales person of LH approached me and said I can't take photos of their aircraft without permission....she took a hike after a friendly expressed "of course I can" though. Wink
I know that nobody can forbid you to photog a plane when you don't touch any law or do it from forbidden positions. But I thought they can forbid you to sell the pic. Looked-up the same in many German photog forums but results said both.
Airpixphoto From United States of America, joined May 2001, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
This is a real sticky wicket. I sell photo business cards and some airlines have threatened to sue me. My lawyer says they're wrong, but their pockets are deeper than mine so that means they win. If I get a warning from any airline, I cease immediately. Fortunately this has only happened three times.
Just like the OJ Simpson Murders...the deepest pockets win!
Brettdespain From United States of America, joined May 2005, 178 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2571 times:
A couple of thoughts here:
1. Yes, you do need to know how they are going to use your photo.
2. If your photo will be printed, you need to know how many will be printed or what the circulation of the publication will be.
3. There are several books and some software programs that will help you determine current photo usage quotes. Try a google search.
4. Do write a formal usage agreement spelling out what the photo is, how they may use it and for how long in exchange for blank amount of money.
5. If the company baulks at your fee, ask them what they think is appropriate. Maybe you can compromise. But it they "low ball" you, walk away from the deal.
I have rejected many "low ball" offers only to have sold the image many times later at much higher rates. So, if the image is very good and you can adequately promote it, it's going to sell.
CalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2553 times:
Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 12): Does it apply when I photograph an American (not AA) plane in or even when I sell the overseas.
I wouldn't know where to start with that question Georg. Every country's copyright law is different, and commerce laws may also be different. Typically the law applies in the jurisdiction where the transaction takes place, but now even Canada has created laws that apply to Canadians' activities outside the country. You'd have to check on the specific country involved.
AviatorG From St. Lucia, joined Apr 2005, 232 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2539 times:
Very interesting thread!
Quoting Chrisair (Reply 6): ...Let's say someone from a big company sees the photo on the wall and wants to use it in a promo material. And then a Boeing exec sees it and wants to put it on a billboard outside of Renton...
...You can't sell it. You can't market it. Thus, you can't make any more money from it!
I'm just curious to know. How about if I were to edit an original shot of mine. (Different edit to a shot previously uploaded to,& currently on A.net) Would I then be able to re-sell that (new edit) to Boeing for e.g.? Or would the similarities be to close between the photos for this to be legal? (although not identical). I assume there would have to be a great deal of limitations in the contract. Thx in advance
INNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3760 posts, RR: 66 Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
Quoting AviatorG (Reply 16): I'm just curious to know. How about if I were to edit an original shot of mine. (Different edit to a shot previously uploaded to,& currently on A.net) Would I then be able to re-sell that (new edit) to Boeing for e.g.? Or would the similarities be to close between the photos for this to be legal? (although not identical). I assume there would have to be a great deal of limitations in the contract. Thx in advance
Usually if you sell copyright, you sell it of this very specific file, so any kind of edit would not be possible after that. If you've another photo 0,2 seconds after that, no problem of course
Chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1456 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2511 times:
Quoting AviatorG (Reply 16): Or would the similarities be to close between the photos for this to be legal?
Of course, this depends on how you word your contract.
Speaking in generalities here, I wouldn't think it would be allowed. And if you were to have an image shot milliseconds later, you could run in to trouble.
Though, you won't sell your copyright to any files, so this won't be a problem.
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