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I Am So Pissed Off Right Now...  
User currently offlineChristianbothe From Germany, joined Jan 2000, 124 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

This is a story about copyright violation. Here goes:

On October 4th a Tu-154 of Sibir, RA-85693, of which I happen to have uploaded a picture to the airliners.net database some time ago, crashes into the Black Sea.
On Sunday I get an email from a friend with congratulations for my succes, to have the Bild newspaper print my picture on the front page. (The Bild, for those who do not know, is by far the biggest German daily newspaper; I don't know how many millions of copies they sell every day.) He asks me how much they had paid me. I was quite surprised and had to answer that actually they did not pay me anything, and they did not ask me if they could use it, too.
So I went to get the Friday's newspaper (not too easy on a Sunday evening), and finally found one in a trash can at a bus stop. It turned out to really be my picture. Later that day I visited the newspaper's homepage, and there they used the picture as well. I wrote an email to them, asking them where they got that picture from. No reply. Today, I just sent off a second email confronting them with the suspicion that they used my picture without my permission.

If you like to compare and judge for yourself, this is the original photo:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Christian Bothe

and here is the page of their archive with their picture of the aircraft:

It isn't about money. I got a request from a small Ukrainian newspaper about the same picture, and I allowed them to use it, since I know the independent media in Ukraine are not having an easy time now, and if I can support them, I will. What really makes me angry is the total lack of respect for other people's work.

I'm really curious how this is going to develop. I am... well, the title of this post says it all.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy christian

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineAer Lingus From Ireland, joined May 2000, 1595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Sue them, and i'm not joking. This is copyright infringement, a serious offence for any company to be involved in. Approach them with a lwayer and i'm sure that would scare them enough to come to some sort of out-of-court settlement.

Good luck Christian in whatever action you decide to take and please keep us up-to-date on what becomes of this incident


User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

If it truly is your shot, I would suggest sending them an invoice first before going the lawyer route. Send it along with tons of documentation, directly to their accounts/billing department. Of course, if that doesn't work then you'll have to work much harder. Good Luck!


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

I would also claim money from them, otherwise media will look at airliners.net as a free image library and that would cause the proffesional photographers alot of damage.



User currently offlineCliffie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

If its not about money. take it easy and smile. Hey.. which of us made it to a front page? Millions of Germans (and not only they) like to read what they believe is true. The "Bild" prints yesterday (eve) what we've gotta think today (morning) in the "All are shocked about" form. W/out asking any of course.

What kind of probity to you expect from such papers?


User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

It's a constant problem. Sometimes publications need urgent photos for their articles, urgent for these people is a question of hours. So they come here, save the image they want and publish it, not caring about the photographer.

What can we do? This is really disrespectful.


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

I would love to have my photo on the frontpage, but I would appreciate if they asked first!



User currently offlineAerodrome From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 33 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

It is obviously your picture Chistian, they used a digital extension but the source is yours. I would recommend to set a term to pay a appropriate price. If they don't react ask a lawyer what to do.

Good luck!

User currently offlineNscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Is it not possible that since you allowed the Ukrainian newspaper to use it, other papers throughout the world can use it via a service if the paper is part of say AP or Reuters? Maybe I'm wrong; that is a question for Mark or Thomas. My understanding was that if the newspaper is part of one of those, any other member newspaper can use that photograph.


User currently offlineTomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

They have stolen your property. It doesn't matter if you choose to give the image to a Ukrainian newspaper without charge, as that is your business. I would do exactly what Mikephotos suggested, invoice them. I would make the amount you request from them
no less than $500.00 USD equivalent, and advise them if they do not pay right away you will be seeking legal assistance to sue them, in which case you will charge no less than $1000.00 USD equivalent PLUS legal fees.


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Send them a heavy invoice. It is of course going to cost them a LOT more when they used it without asking!!! And do not smile about having it on the front page. A newspaper knows *very well* that they can't behave like that!
Don't let them get away with it!!

AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineSharpnfuzzy From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Did they provide a source of the graphic at all?... Because if they said that their source is the Ukranian paper then I think that what Nscaler said applies. I know that papers credit lots of pictures to Reuters and then on the Reuters site is the actual credit to the photographer.

User currently offlineKingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Could I suggest calling the picture editor at the paper first? Talk to him/her explain the situation and ask for twice their standard rate for non-approved usage. I'm sure he won't care about paying you since it's not his money.

In my experience, picture editors tend to be very bad at answering e-mails but much better on the telephone.

If you still don't get any joy then advise you will be sending an invoice and then get a lawyer on it.

Most of the time, these things can be sorted out just by a phone call.


Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineSonic99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

There's a caption at the bottom of the page that reads:

dpa, CNN


User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

If in fact you can show that this is your photo it is protected by copyright. Do not give that right away! Copyright laws exist to protect writers, artists, photgraphers, etc...You can bet that if you used one of the stories from that paper and did not give credit and get permission to run it, plus made money from it they would be all over you.

It is NOT about money, it is about protecting your property, which at some point could turn into money. Talk to the paper, but be ready to confront them with a lawyer. Good luck.

User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

DPA: http://www.dpa.de.. appears to be a news agency...

User currently offlineSkyliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 205 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

By all means, send them a bill. If they got it from an agency, then they can try collecting from the agency. It looks like others may have used it, as well. The Bild would not hesitate to enforce its copyright; you need to do so with yours, also.

User currently offlineSharpnfuzzy From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 2026 times:

This might help you to track your picture:
My guess is that it went to the Ukranian paper, then to the EPA, then to the DPA, and then to the German paper. From the looks of it the newspaper itselft did everything legally it bought the graphic form the DPA and credited it.

"dpa is a member of the epa European Pressphoto Agency and has full access to the European and international sources of this organization which is maintained by 14 national European picture agency members"

User currently offlineChristianbothe From Germany, joined Jan 2000, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Thank you all...
The "copyright CNN/dpa", as I read it, is for the pictures below the aircraft picture, CNN for the left one, and dpa for the graphic with the map showing the flight route.
No response so far. Man, this used to be just some guys having nothing better to do than standing at the airport fence all day, and now...

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy christian

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