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Submission Standards Too High?  
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

I've been an avid subscriber to A.net for a couple of years now but had not, until recently, checked out the aviation photography forum. What surprised me is the fact that photos that probably look good to most aviation nuts like myself can be and are rejected. While I can appreciate a desire for high quality photos when they're available, I have to wonder if the submission standards are perhaps a little too high for some, discouraging enthusiastic airplane photographers from making any submissions at all. This site is, after all, for airplane nuts in general. Do you have to be a near professional photographer to submit photos and have them accepted?


Dare to dream; dream big!
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

In my opinion, the acceptance standards, although high, are acceptable and within reach of any good amateur photographer. It is not that hard to get shots accepted here.

The only thing I would question is the ever-narrowing line between "soft" and "oversharpened".

[Edited 2007-02-05 11:39:04]


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Do you have to be a near professional photographer to submit photos and have them accepted?

I wouldn't say that. I think very few of us are "professional" photog. If for "professional" photog you mean someone being paid for taking aircraft pics.
What I would consider maybe is the increasing number of pics that can be taken only by people working in the aviation field, most of the times in restricted areas : pilots, mechanics etc. So maybe with time, shooting interesting pics will be much more difficult. But this is another story....

Ciao



Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
It is not that hard to get shots accepted here.

I can't say I agree with this. I think that without the proper gear it is very hard to get pictures accepted. I'm not saying this is wrong or that I would change things, but it is hard to get pictures accepted. The real problem really is that it gets harder and harder each day, and if the standards keep up rising, there will be a point where only pros will have a chance. I hope I'm wrong though  Wink

regards  Smile



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
there will be a point where only pros will have a chance

We are a long way from that.

It's not rocket science, just photography. It's not that hard.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
without the proper gear it is very hard to get pictures accepted

A point-and-shoot camera is good enough for acceptable shots of parked aircraft in good light. For aircraft in flight, a basic DSLR (entry-level Nikon or Canon) with a decent zoom lens is good enough.

Great gear does not make great photographers. Otherwise, everyone who could afford a Hasselblad with a digital back would be a great photographer.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
there will be a point where only pros will have a chance. I hope I'm wrong though

I hope you're wrong too, but personally cannot understand the real meaning of the term "professional". Professional can mean a lot of things : I've seen woderful, high definition shots, made with a 300D, which actually is not a top level camera. Nor I think that real professional photogs agrees with all A.net rules in terms of acceptance...
In my opinion it is not about the devices, it's about knowledge (know your camera, know the post-processing workflow, know A.net rules), patience, creativity, and more and more will be about chances : not all of us have a gate access or the chance to shoot a 747 flying below, from the cockpit of a plane. So with time, I believe that all the shots we make will become to be a bit boring I think. A new step will be needed in terms of motive and subject, and only a few will really succeed in shooting top-rated pics.
Just my  twocents 

Ciao



Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

Quoting LIPH (Reply 5):
it is not about the devices, it's about knowledge (know your camera, know the post-processing workflow, know A.net rules), patience, creativity, and more and more will be about chances

Absolutely right!



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
but it is hard to get pictures accepted. The real problem really is that it gets harder and harder each day, and if the standards keep up rising, there will be a point where only pros will have a chance. I hope I'm wrong though

...that's BS. It doesn't get harder everyday, and if you have even the slightest clue of what you are doing behind the lens and can follow some simple guidelines you can get pictures accepted.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Submission Standards Too High?

No.

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

I think the standards are a combination of the hobby standard and the available technology. Airline slides have always been held to high standards. As better scanning technology, more megapixels, and post processing continues to increase, the digital aviation photography will approach the standards for airline slide photography.

The traditional airline slide was a full frame side view in good sunlight with the registration visible on Kodachrome film. Anet has expanded to many more artistic images of contrails, sunrise/sunset, and scenic views-much more than a visual registration database. It is one of the few human endeavors I have seen that is constantly looking for ways to improve. It is not a rapid transformation but it is surefooted with input sought through the forums.

The site does offer at least three ways for photographers to achieve acceptable quality, this forum, the FAQ, and photographer contact on each of the images.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
although high, are acceptable and within reach of any good amateur photographer

 checkmark 


My first ever pic on the homepage today!  bigthumbsup 


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Meadows



 praise   praise 


User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2877 times:

Well made Ian,
come here in Italy and I'll offer you a glass of Prosecco...!!  Wink

Ciao



Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting F4wso (Reply 9):
It is one of the few human endeavors I have seen that is constantly looking for ways to improve.

Oh please. You must be joking!



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineAirMalta From Malta, joined Mar 2006, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

Quoting Rotate (Reply 8):
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Submission Standards Too High?



Quoting Rotate (Reply 8):
No.

why no?

Malcolm


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting AirMalta (Reply 13):
Quoting Rotate (Reply 8):
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Submission Standards Too High?



Quoting Rotate (Reply 8):
No.

why no?

Cause every day hundreds of pics enter the DB, so the bar is not too high. Even Newcomers enter the DB. Also I rather like to see topnotch quality pics than soso quality pics.
If you follow all the hints given in here about after workflows it is possibel. The problem is that a lot of people try to get pics into the DB, where they did something wrong while taking the shot. Also people think if the have top notch cams this guarantes to enter the DB - which is just plain wrong. You should know a bit about taking photos ...

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineLinco22 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1380 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

This is always going to be a topic raised on this forum. Its a simple answer. This is an avaition database. The photographes submitted must be of a high standard, identified by the folks who run the site. If you work towards those quidelines you're on the right track. The best gear isn't needed. The best weather isn't always required (Believe me, I'm from Ireland) but what you need to do is develop your photography skills. With more experience you'll understand why this site has standards.

Regards
Colin


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
A point-and-shoot camera is good enough for acceptable shots of parked aircraft in good light

True, but then you have to make sure there are not too many pics of that aircraft, and other things. Let's say that with the same skill level, a better camera gives you more chances.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 7):
.that's BS. It doesn't get harder everyday, and if you have even the slightest clue of what you are doing behind the lens and can follow some simple guidelines you can get pictures accepted.

No, it's not BS. At worst, it is my opinion.
It does get harder every day because the standards rise. Check out some accepted pictures from a few years ago and you know they don't stand a chance today. Maybe "harder" is not the right word, possibly "challenging" would be better?
IMO its not that simple. Following the guidelines does not assure acceptance.

I'm not criticizing the way the site works at all, I'm just saying its not that easy as some of you say it is. And I'm fine with it, as long as it does not become impossible.

regards  Smile



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 16):
True, but then you have to make sure there are not too many pics of that aircraft, and other things. Let's say that with the same skill level, a better camera gives you more chances.

Totally disagree - I would say the more skill you have, the better your photo's will be. I know lots of people with expensive gear who can't take a decent picture. Not everyone has the money for expensive equipment, but anyone regardless of gear or money can practice and improve their skills.

To answer the original question, no, the standards are not too high here. There are tons of free websites out there that will take any old aviation photo. If someone can't get a shot on A.net there are still lots of places to post a photo.

B


User currently offlineWalter2222 From Belgium, joined Sep 2005, 1302 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2725 times:

Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 17):
To answer the original question, no, the standards are not too high here. There are tons of free websites out there that will take any old aviation photo. If someone can't get a shot on A.net there are still lots of places to post a photo.

 checkmark   checkmark 

And most people forget that the original hobby is "shooting pictures"... It is nice, of course, to present and share the end result(s) onto this site, but nothing can beat the moments in open air, rain, cold, sun, with the magic sound of jet noise, and the smell...  Smile ... and being amongst other aviation nuts!

Best regards,

Walter



canon 340d ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l is usm - ...
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Do you have to be a near professional photographer to submit photos and have them accepted?

No. You have to be good at editing. A friend of mine, who I taught from scratch, has quite a good acceptance rate here. He's still really only a beginner in photography but doesn't seem to struggle getting his pics in the database...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 7):
if you have even the slightest clue of what you are doing behind the lens

...Which is why I don't agree with this statement. Knowing what to do with the camera is one thing, but I believe almost ALL shots here are edited in some way. As for me, my editing skills are about as good as a camel's security in a snowstorm! For me, the art is in the actual capture, not in the post-shot editing. See how hard it is to perfectly centre a landing airliner, fill the frame with it and get the colour/contrast exactly right without Photoshop to bail you out. It's more difficult than you think! This ISN'T knocking anyone who likes to edit extensively by the way - each to their own.

It goes back to a thread a few months back about beginners and veterans, digital and slide photographers, etc. I'm sure most of you will remember it (very entertaining and highly heated thread!). There was an argument about novice photographers taking mediocre shots, editing them to hell and coming up with decent images. There were also arguments between fans of digital and the old generation of slide shooters. Anyone interested should try a search for it - I think it was titled "The new professional photographers" or something along those lines.

Cheers,

Karl


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

If a.net does not accept your pictures....oh well! A picture slightly out of focus, grainy is not a bad picture, it just does not have its place on a.net

On the other hand, shots who will never make it to a.net could possibly grace the cover of magazines around the world.

Art Directors, Senior Editors etc.....will love the shot, for a.net it is too far in the distance, NOA motiv, grainy or whatever!

Look at Mark Garfinkels work. He is a pro, he has an eye, he might not be the ultimate PS guru (sorry for that Mark) but most of this pictures are absolutey awesome. He struggels to get stuff on here too.

I am in that boat too, I have had my fair share of rejections and my acceptance ratio is not the best. From time to time a shot gets thru.

Vasco G.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

One thing I might add.

I have been around since 1999. Sure standards have risen and this is good. Just imagine a.net would still accept some stuff they have accepted back in the old days.

If you wanna play in the majors, you have to be better than others.

Standards high???? Who is setting that standard!

Us, all the contributing photographers........

Vasco G.


User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2672 times:

Let me add also another issue to this discussion : one point is to add into A.net database some of your aircraft pics. Another story is to add to A.net great shots. There is a loooot of difference between these two things. And believe me, there's no need to go to SXM to shoot a top of the day. It's all in your brain. Think first, then shoot.

Ciao

[Edited 2007-02-05 22:14:12]


Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2648 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
No. You have to be good at editing.

Sounds like the "chicken or the egg" dilemma! But I disagree - if you can't capture a decent image then you don't need any editing skills. Capture a good image and you should need nothing other than a quick sharpen and resize. If someone consistently has to do more editing than that, then they should work on their photography skills so they can spend time shooting instead of sitting in front of the computer.

B


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2645 times:

Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 17):
but anyone regardless of gear or money can practice and improve their skills.

...but there is a limit with the use of those skills. If your camera is crap there is so much you can do with it. And it does not end there, you also need a good monitor  Wink

Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 17):
There are tons of free websites out there that will take any old aviation photo. If someone can't get a shot on A.net there are still lots of places to post a photo.

Agree 100%, that's why IMO although I think the standrads are high, it should be kept this way.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
A friend of mine, who I taught from scratch, has quite a good acceptance rate here.

I could use your help too  Wink



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
25 Viv : Make up your mind .....
26 JakTrax : Agree 101%! Sorry if it sounded like a contradiction. In my opinion, getting shots on here is 30% actual capture skill, 70% what you do to it afterwa
27 JakTrax : Does make me think though, are many of us spending too much time sitting at our computers and too little time actually getting out there and shooting?
28 Linco22 : Alot of people get their kicks out of that. For me, with aviation being something i've always loved, I do get excited knowing I have some keepers fro
29 Post contains images JeffM : .....if you say so...... Personally, it sounds like you've had a run of rejections??????????
30 Post contains images EZEIZA : hell yes!  but as i said, I think the standards should be high, It'll only make me improve, I never argued that (although I would like the quality r
31 Post contains links and images Javibi : Although it is a struggle for me to get a photo accepted here, judging by some examples I see in this DB I must agree with those who think it is not t
32 Post contains images IL76 : J, I can give you a few more examples, but as crew I'm not allowed. E
33 Post contains images AirMalta : MALC
34 Post contains images Codeshare : The standars are fine (maybe just too high at times). Some things will slip through. Either upload here, or go elswhere KS/codeshare
35 AKE0404AR : J, This is a good one. Thanks for sharing. You made my day!!!!! Vasco
36 EBJ1248650 : Kind of "an airplane nut loves most any airplane picture, but an aviation photographer --- beginner or professional --- loves the pictures best that
37 AndyHunt : Much like a company cannot set a price for a product or service, as it is determined by the market......market forces, standards at a.net are also som
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