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Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography  
User currently offlineChris78cpr From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2820 posts, RR: 50
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 2715 times:

Well thats the question....

I was sat with my tutor today who was looking at my images i have taken for my uni project and he criticised me for not using a lot of good images that i have left in the original folder. My reason to him for not using them was that they were not really sharp when viewed at 100% on screen. He told me i was being a t**t for thinking like that and that content matters in a photo and not it's perfection sharpness wise. While it can't be OOF it can be a little soft if the content there is very special.

This got me thinking. I have declined to edit plenty of shots from my photo shoots as they are not 100% pin sharp. But in reality i am only going to use them at 8"x12"at the most and they would work perfect for that use?

When i look for shots for anet they have to be pin sharp or i wont edit them. Without realizing this has spilled over into my other work and it has had a negative affect.

Am i alone in doing this? Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Chris

P.S. This is not criticising the website in any way, im just curious.


5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 2712 times:

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Am i alone in doing this? Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Chris, yes, it happen also to me, when I find myself looking at a picture of a great photog saying : "maaan, that's soft, that's blurry".
Honestly I think that photography is an art, an expressive art, and being that, has no rules at all. A.net rules are another story, nothing that has to do with real photograhy as an art. I see A.net rules just as a *FILTER* and so must be considered. Creativity is endless and without rules.

Ciao

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:39:01]

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:40:06]

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:40:25]


Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 2700 times:

I keep my "real" photography totally separate from my "Anet" photography. I do not allow cross-infection.

The standards for acceptance here go against generally-accepted artistic and technical standards for photography. Obvious examples are the Anet rules for centering and cropping.

But then, the owner of this site is not a photographer ....



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months ago) and read 2686 times:

My entry in the world of photography started with planes. Before shooting aircraft I snapped away with a small point and shoot on holidays, but nothing worth mentioning. So from day one I have been obsessed with sharpness, only to be exaggerated when someone gave me an Ansel Adams book.

But when I was photographer at a wedding last year, I realised that perfect sharpness is sometimes an unattainable goal and while trying to reach that goal you miss out on a lot of great photographs. Most people don't even see the things that you think are flaws. So at some point you have to flick the switch and tell yourself: "This is not an airplane, some people do not want to see the pimples on their noses, blurry is your friend!"

Aviation and landscapes: To me sharpness is very important, blurry pictures get deleted.
People and other stuff: Whatever works, anything goes.

E


User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3208 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

I try to keep them seperate, but often find myself commenting on the sharpness and other stuff. All depends on your intentions for the shot I guess.


Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

YES! But its not the sharpness ..... , I am totally fine with not so sharp images in general. E.g. - shooting my daughter with 1/10s while she rides her bike ...... - That shot doesnt have to be A.net sharp.

Its basically the planning and the whole surounding which changed ....... - I do think a lot more before shooting general ...

Is it better now? I dont know .... , I dont want to overemphasize the whole A.net thing on my normal shooting style ..

Quoting IL76 (Reply 3):
Aviation and landscapes: To me sharpness is very important, blurry pictures get deleted.
People and other stuff: Whatever works, anything goes.

 checkmark 

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 682 File size: 175kb


Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):

Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

No, but it drives my wife mad when I try to level and centre them!  Wink



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineAcontador From Chile, joined Jul 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2619 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):
Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

You hit it Robin, that's it man!

My current wallpaper... sly 

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 513kb



Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
User currently offlineGhostbase From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Very much so. I used to be a 'spotter' photographer for many years and my attitude was that it was better to have a crappy shot of something rare rather than no shot at all. When I started uploading here just over three years ago the early rejections made me think hard about the standard of my photography, also the perhaps more important processsing part of the hobby when scanning 20 year old films and slides. The positive result has been that my processing skills are good and when I take photos of aircraft now I take into consideration whether they will be 'hobby' shots or submitted to A.Net; my standards are much higher for that and that has given me much personal fulfilment.

On the negative side I am finding that the A.Net standards tend to be getting still higher and the equipment needed to take those great photos is slowly becoming beyond my reach and, sometimes, I just feel like I cannot be bothered any more. I also recently hit a 98% acceptance rate and now I am reluctant to submit photos in case I get a rejection!

To be quite honest A.Net has also had another negative effect. I have never pretended to be a great photographer however I have managed to achieve a few of the 'milestones' here like 1000 shots in the db, average 1000 views per photo, even a top photo of 24 hours (now that was a thrill!). However, as much as I try to ignore them, the numerous "So and so achieves 100 photos" posts followed by dozens of posters all saying well done mate, fantastic photos, youre the best really burns me up. They just confirm that A.Net is the same as real life where self-publicists and egotists happily grab all the attention and kudos but the majority of contributing photographers, people who are perhaps of a more modest nature, just get on with quietly adding long-term value to the database but get little recognition. I really would like to see these 'Well Done Mate' posts stopped 'cos they are pretty demotivating and sadly that has spilled over into my personal photography  Sad

Oh well, I'll just get back on with my middle-age crisis...

 ghost 



"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Nope. I dont shoot for a.net. I shoot for enjoyment and to create images I and hopefully others will like. Any person who isnt happy with their work because "it wont get in the DB" is off their rocker.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineLIPH From Italy, joined May 2004, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):
Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

Yes Robin,
there is : shooting pictures to girls and models !!  rotfl 

Ciao



Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

I have found that airliners.net raised my abilities. I learned a lot here about editing that I might not have figured out on my own. Even with all the books I read, a.net made the academic stuff practical. However, I still shoot very different styles for other uses such as weddings, corporate work, etc.

Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 8):
However, as much as I try to ignore them, the numerous "So and so achieves 100 photos" posts followed by dozens of posters all saying well done mate, fantastic photos, youre the best really burns me up.

Can't agree with that one. If some folks on here have friends, supporters or admirers willing to plug them for significant achievements, be happy for them. 100 photo's doesn't light my fire, but I'd still rather see "Picklehead hits 100 photo's" than "Please prescreen these 600 photos for me." If we don't like the thread, we don't have to open it. My last employer ran into this problem with birthday parties - the people who were forgotten on their b'day complained, so they had a rule that we couldn't celebrate birthdays. That is demotivating.

B


User currently offlineDlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 544 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I have found that a.net in general has improved my photography quite a bit. The standards have forced me to start thinking a lot more about the details of a shot as a I take it. I am much more conscious of the lighting and composition. I've also started carrying a tripod so that I don't have to gamble in low lighting situations. Pictures now are not "view them a couple of times and throw them in the slide box". Having an outlet has also boosted my enthusiasm for shooting pictures.

Interestingly, I have found that it has bled over to my wife, who doesn't shoot airplane pictures, but does shoot a lot of pictures on our travels. I have passed on my lessons and now she is much more aware of the details of a shot. On our last trip to Asia, we shot about 40Gb of pictures and I found that it was hard to sort this down to a show of less than 500 pictures, as they were all so good. She tends to see shots that I miss, particularly of people.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Yes and no, bottom line is what you want to do with the images at the end of the day.

A.net is certainly one of the best places on the internet where you can display your shots. Ain't it a bad shot, just because it did not made it into the database. Hell no, art directors and editors have a total different approach. I would even say, shots which got kicked back as a motiv rejection at a.net have a very good chance to be a "high seller".

VG.


User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2745 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
I keep my "real" photography totally separate from my "Anet" photography. I do not allow cross-infection.

The standards for acceptance here go against generally-accepted artistic and technical standards for photography. Obvious examples are the Anet rules for centering and cropping.

But then, the owner of this site is not a photographer ....

A very insightfull commentary on A.net photography and the sad state of photography that A.net now propagates.

It's all about the "rules" and not about the true photographic "feel" of whether an image is good or not. Cropping, level, centering and motive are all areas that have approached the stupidity point here on A.net.

But frankly, as long as my name is spelt correctly on the cheque from my clients, I really no longer care if A.net accepts the images or not.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 8):

Got in one Ghostie. Proper "spotter" pics to illustrate the stuff you've seen and put a tick in the book for are priceless and usually blurred, cluttered, off-centre and askew. But Airliners.net and other sites have certainly improved my style and content. However, it is too easy to fall into the "must be sharp and centred" point of view and away from the "shit, I must have a pic of that whatever happens" one.

I have also found that digital photography has improved my overall capability as well. I used to have to put up with slightly tilted horizons, not quite everything in shot, blown-out pictures. Now I can tweak them a little to remove some of the ambiguities.

Overall I have improved I hope, but I still have the old spotter feeling that any shot is worth it if it's the only one you get. I just won't show you lot thats all! Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineKukkudrill From Malta, joined Dec 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

A.net has taught me a lot about the technical side of photography and practically all I know about photo editing. I'm glad for it, even though I agree with those who say that the artistic side to photography matters more. It's interesting to look at photos in aviation magazines with an a.net perspective. Clearly editors are a lot less particular than a.net ...


Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2444 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

approached the stupidity point here on A.net.

Followed only by your constant rantings, I'm sure.

The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

That being said, there are thousands of shots here that, by definition, could get a bad crop or bad motiv rejection, but clearly the photog knew what they were trying to achieve, and the picture(s) was accepted on its merit.

If you want to cut off a winglet because you needed 24mm but you only had 28mm, that is your business, but those type of shots no longer make the grade here.

And it makes me wonder why people will take a long time to color correct a photo but won't take the few seconds it takes to make sure it is level. Most cameras have a grid in the viewfinder, it isn't rocket science Big grin


User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2745 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
And it makes me wonder why people will take a long time to color correct a photo but won't take the few seconds it takes to make sure it is level. Most cameras have a grid in the viewfinder, it isn't rocket science

I defy any photographer to look at the grid on a camera's viewfinder and tell whether a shot is within the 1/2 degree of level that is often argued about here. Hell, we've even seen threads where they argue about 1/10th of a degree. And you are trying to tell us that you can tell THAT from a camera grid screen. Oh give me a break!!!!


User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 18):
Oh give me a break!!!!

While I agree that on-camera grids wouldn't be entirely effective for the increments you mentioned (I've never even seen one on an SLR), you have to admit that the grid in Photoshop kind of nulls all excuses about leveling. As I'm sure you know, it's just as fast and just as easy.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 14):
But frankly, as long as my name is spelt correctly on the cheque from my clients, I really no longer care if A.net accepts the images or not.

Not exactly my words, but it comes close. Still Royal's statement makes sense too.......

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

Nevertheless, I'd love to dig out some shots from long time contributors, who actually know very well what they are doing, but still do get those "silly" motiv rejections. (IMO these shots are a loss for a.net and if accepted could make the site even more popular)

Anyway...don't want to go into details. This has been discussed over and over.

VG.


User currently offlineKukkudrill From Malta, joined Dec 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

That being said, there are thousands of shots here that, by definition, could get a bad crop or bad motiv rejection, but clearly the photog knew what they were trying to achieve, and the picture(s) was accepted on its merit.

I have to say my experience bears this out. I have had shots accepted in which I deliberately framed the subject off centre for various reasons - including one recent shot which made top of the day here, whereas on another site it got rejected for bad composition and too much dead space.

Granted, there was a time here at a.net when photos cropped to 4:3 were rejected as bad motive for the sole reason that the screener felt they should be 3:2. But thankfully it seems that sanity has prevailed.



Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
User currently offlineWallace From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Airliners.net may be THE paragon of on-line aviation photo databases but its is not a paragon of photography in general.

In short, submitting photographs to a.net does affect my personal photography. I was slated quite rightly by a judge in a Camera Club photo competition when I submitted a close cropped and centred picture processed for a.net. I should have known that composition is everything in a photograph and it is not even paid lip service here.



"..... for beauty is written on the eye of the screener."
User currently onlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4698 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):

The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

I agree partitially on this (recently got one accepted that falls outside the a.net cropping criteria), tho I think there is still room for improvement



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

while we're at it, could you please get rid of that noa_level thingy his Royalness?
Would love to upload this chunk of fat  Smile


Big version: Width: 600 Height: 400 File size: 224kb
fattie



Jet Visuals
25 INNflight : oh wait... add colour and motiv to the list
26 Post contains images JRadier : how about underexposed?
27 Eadster : That "chunk of fat" would not look as great leveled, correct colour etc etc... Nice shot indeed...!!
28 StealthZ : Been thinking about this topic for a day or two. As many of you know my photographic background predates my A.net photography by a substantial amount.
29 Clickhappy : I actually like that A380 shot. Pretty freaking sweet.
30 Post contains images Clickhappy : composition is everything in a photograph and it is not even paid lip service here Everyone knows the screeners at airliners.net only accept photograp
31 StealthZ : Whilst I know Royal was not directly quoting my post I am happy to reword it... Should now read....When I first came here I was quite shocked by the
32 Post contains images Clickhappy : So you think static airframe shots should follow rules of third? Or maybe a candid shot of a winglet? I think many of the shots here follow good rules
33 Shep : Centered and tight is acceptable... Sharp with good color is also acceptable - within reason... True artistic photos are accepted - as shown in reply
34 StealthZ : It seems my comments about learniing and accepting the A.net criteria have been taken somewhat personally(and incorrectly) by Royal. That was not the
35 Eadster : It certainly does. That's been the case since I've been a member... I've always been given the impression that "Anet knows best so don't question it"
36 MidEx216 : While I agree that statement is quite strong, and I in fact am a fan of all of those pictures you posted as examples, I do believe that sometimes, ar
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