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Motive/Centre Advice  
User currently offlineRanger703 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 157 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

Hi all,

I'm not too sure how to centre these shots of the Reds and whether I should include the smoke or not.

I would appreciate some pointers and any advice on how best to edit/process them to enable acceptance.

Regards

Andy


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/amwaluk/FC11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/amwaluk/FT5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/amwaluk/FT6.jpg

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpruit From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

Hi,

Great pics, showing the Reds at their best!

I think that you could crop closer to the Aircraft without losing the smoke!

I'm concerned by how dark they appear tho, but i'd know more if I wasn't stuck at the office on these terrible flatpanels!

Hope this helps a little!

Spru!



E=Mc2
User currently offlineLanas From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 978 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Hi Andy

On your first edit I believe you should center the aircraft only, not minding about the smoke. I´d put the action a little bit higher and more to the left of the frame.
The second shot has more symmetry, so it looks more appealing if you leave the smoke. What I´d do is crop out the dead space on the right and put everything a little higher in the frame.
The third shot is pretty disordered, which might take away some of the attraction of the image.

Try to brighten them up a little, and if you want, post them in the correct size so you can get some feedback in quality (they all look a bit blurry, though).

Cheers Big grin
Lanas.-



"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

All have blur and exposure issues, motive and distance on 1 + 3. Quality is low on all three.

User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 3):
All have blur and exposure issues, motive and distance on 1 + 3. Quality is low on all three.

Jeff - the shots he plugged here are all 800 pixels wide, so they are obviously NOT the final edits, he was asking about centering. Exposure issues can be fixed, and the quality is not accurately represented by these glorified thumbnails.

Andy - I think the smoke adds to the shot. Cropping it out would be taking something away from the photo, and I wouldn't do it unless the quality of the cropped shot is astounding.

Great pics, hope to see them in the database!!

Drew  wave 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineDiezel From Netherlands, joined Oct 2002, 646 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Your second shot would not be half as good if you left the smoke out. For me that would be a valid reason to include the smoke or forget about uploading to a.net. Just leave a note for the screener explaining why you cropped or centered the picture like that.

Roel.



Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 4):
Jeff - the shots he plugged here are all 800 pixels wide, so they are obviously NOT the final edits,

I can read..............

I don't think they will make it even after manipulation... errr.... processing.


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1849 times:

Quoting JeffM (Reply 6):
I can read..............

Ok

Quoting JeffM (Reply 6):
I don't think they will make it even after manipulation... errr.... processing.

You'd be surprised what gets into the database even after manipulation... errr.... processing.



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 7):
You'd be surprised what gets into the database...

Amazed is more like it....


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 4):
Jeff - the shots he plugged here are all 800 pixels wide, so they are obviously NOT the final edits,



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 7):
You'd be surprised....

Ummm, right. The final edits would probably be a bit larger than 800 pIxels... make a low quality photo larger and see what happens. Try it once, you'd be surprised to know that quality gets worse.


Ranger,

the first one seems to be the better quality photo of the 3 that you posted. Good attempts. I hope to see the Red Arrows perform in the future.

[Edited 2007-07-07 20:56:12]

User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 9):
make a low quality photo larger and see what happens

OK - explaining this stuff is getting exasperating, but I'll take a shot at it.

You are right, Chad, if the ORIGINAL photo is what is plugged above, and he tries to make it larger to get it accepted on airliners.net, then the quality will go down.

But if you think about it.... 600x800 is 0.5 megapixels. Unless he's using an old Nokia phone to shoot these pics (which could explain JeffM's eagle-eyed analysis of the quality and exposure issue), the original MUST be much larger.

That would lead (almost) anyone to believe that the ORIGINAL file would be reworked - NOT the aforementioned 600x800 sample.

You may want to send Andy an e-mail reminding him to work from the original file - not the 600x800 version... but I'm thinking he probably already knows that.

Did you even read the topic of this thread??? It wasn't "Is the quality good enough on these photos?" it was "Motive/Centre Advice". He's asking about the centering of the aircraft and the smoke - not whether you think the quality of his 800 wide shot is good enough for a.net.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 9):
Try it once, you'd be surprised to know that quality gets worse.

I do actually know a thing or two about post-processing - as you may recall I helped you learn how to do it a couple years ago, and now your shots are approaching 5 million hits. Give me a litte credit, Chad.



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 10):
Did you even read the topic of this thread???

Sure did guy. I was actually agreeing and expanding on what Jeff said Ill be more clear next time.

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 10):
as you may recall I helped you learn how to do it a couple years ago, and now your shots are approaching 5 million hits.

Yep, I remember. That was a nice workflow. However, I was getting photos accepted long before that (had about 25 uploaded back in 1999 but had them removed for reasons that are neither here nor there). Please remember that aviation photography didn't start when the Digital Rebel came out.  Wink

Thanks for giving me the pointers though. When I hit 10 million you will be on the top of my list of people to thank. Will that make you happy?

[Edited 2007-07-09 05:59:43]

User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 11):
Yep, I remember. That was a nice workflow. However, I was getting photos accepted long before that (had about 25 uploaded back in 1999 but had them removed for reasons that are neither here nor there).

I wasn't suggesting that I taught you how to process. We helped each other out way back in '04 I think it was. I learned just as much from you as you did from me. We both cut our teeth on the Digital Rebel - which was a damn fine cam at the time. My point was just that I know that making small photos into big photos is rarely a good idea!

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 11):
Thanks for giving me the pointers though. When I hit 10 million you will be on the top of my list of people to thank. Will that make you happy?

Don't need any thanks - just need to keep friends here on this site that will not zing me every time I try to help someone out.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 11):
Sure did guy. I was actually agreeing and expanding on what Jeff said Ill be more clear next time.

It's all good, no hard feelings.  bigthumbsup 

Now - what do you think of the centering of his shot? Include the smoke? Or crop it close (if quality allows)?

Drew  wave 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 12):
Now - what do you think of the centering of his shot? Include the smoke? Or crop it close (if quality allows)?

I like the first one best. It has the best quality. That said, the dead space on top kills it as it is now. If there was a way to crop it and keep the smoke, thats the way he should go IMHO.


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