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Take Pride In What You Do.. Damn It. Charge For It  
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

It has been mentioned quite a few times, but I thought I bring it up again.......

Dear Mr. Garcia,

As we already got many positive anwers from other people shooting
airplanes and ready to let use their nice photographs from airliners.net
for free - but with their appropriate reference of course - we don't
need to do any business with you. Anyway, thank you for your interest
and your time.

Regards,
Jorg Guesnet


.......... you don't get your groceries for free at your local grocery store, just because you spread the word and tell your friends how great it is to go shopping there.

Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingfreak From Germany, joined May 2005, 398 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5198 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
we already got many positive anwers from other people shooting
airplanes

Well, not from me as I don't give my pictures away for free (private use is another case of course). It is always the same: My camera, my lenses and the gas I burned driving to the airport weren't for free either, in what world do these people live?? I experienced it myself several times, people asking for free images... And when I told them that they have to pay I never heard back anything from them.

But everybody has to make his own decision, if somebody wants to give his pictures away for free, fine.

Florian


User currently offlineAnder From Spain, joined Jan 2005, 367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
As we already got many positive anwers from other people shooting
airplanes and ready to let use their nice photographs

Dunno, but I've heard (read) this so many times. Guess it makes no difference what country you live in or who you deal with, but it is always the same.

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

 checkmark 

Ander



Born to tri.
User currently offlineAcontador From Chile, joined Jul 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5158 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Same here  Sad !
Either they just use them without your consent, or they find plenty of people willing to give them for free.
What I found most amazing was the fact that I was contact by one the mayor jet engine producers for the use of one particular picture, but when I asked for a compensation they replied that a usually they would get them for free but if I insisted I would get a pen and a sticker!!!! Needless to say that eventually they went for the free ones...



Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
User currently offlineLHRSIMON From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 1343 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

100% agree.. This is the main reason why i have moved more and more away from aviation photography and into sport photography. I cannot think of any other subject matter where hundreds of photographers are willing to pay thousands for pro gear to then only give the photo's away for free....


Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

Unfortunately some people think that a photo credit is payment. This is exactly the reason I'm getting out of wedding photography - there are too many hobbyists out there that will give away a wedding shoot for a couple hundred bucks just to buy a new lens. They don't seem to get that every time they give it away, they take meals off a pro's kitchen table.

B


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5135 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

Discussed many, many a time but unless there is a law that says you cannot give images away for free there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Regards

Gary


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

Welcome to my respected user list!!


Glad someone here can say it. I have gotten 2 requests in the last month from Asiana and China Airlines and once they hear they have to shell out some of that money they make they never email back. I mean who are they to use someone's work for nothing? Do they carry cargo and not charge their customers? They are enabled by the fact that many here give it a way, and please don't give ,me this "do it for the hobby" stuff.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11378 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

You can't MAKE someone charge for their photos. Plain and simple.

Besides, what is the value of a photo? If it's rare, it probably has a lot of value. If it is artistic and unique, it has a lot of value. But don't expect to get payment for a side-on shot - there are just too many alternative photos out there that even via free market, with everyone charging, you would still only get pennies. Or am I wrong?



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinePrat From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

Damn rights. I agree with you 100%. If someone else wants to give their photos away for free that's fine, that's their right. But I won't. Everyone's always looking for something for nothing, and that will never change, but atleast make it more of a hassle for them!  Smile That said, I've still managed to make some decent photo sales and I've gained some very respectable contacts at companies which were more than happy to pay a nominal fee for a high quality photo. Some of which have even come back looking for more!


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Or am I wrong?

You're absolutely right, Damon. These threads are  old 

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

Face it, digital photography and the Internet have inflated the value of most photographs. If you're not an especially gifted or lucky photographer, yes, you're competing against 15-year-olds who take great pride in seeing their photo used for free, and who are you to tell them they shouldn't do that?

Personally, I certainly do charge for any remotely serious commercial usage of my photos. But - I don't know about yours - most requests I get are from amateur writers etc. who are devoting their free time to marginal, if not downright unprofitable projects. I have been on the other side of that and if I like them I'll sometimes let them use a photo for free, and again, nobody can tell me not to do that.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Ok, to make it a bit clearer.....the company / project I am talking about is funded by the EU (European Union)
Last time I checked they do have some money left on their bank account.

"newsletters are sent for free to aviation stakeholders"

The photo in question is not rare but an unusual photo which I have sold quite a few times in the past to various clients...and it did pay my trip to Dubai and a couple of other things besides that.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia



I remember the first time someone contacted me about using my photo (must have been around 1999). I was so psyched and if I remember well, I gave it out for a couple of bucks.......I had no idea, but you live and learn!


User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2071 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5010 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Take pride in what you do....charge for a usage!

Ever heard about Don Quichotte?
With all due respect Vasco, but the battle you're trying to fight here can't be won.
There are already millions of aviation photos on the net and thousands are being added daily, so if someone wants a photo for free he/she will get it.
If you want to sell photos, then make them special and irreplaceable so that possible customers will want YOUR photo and not just ANY photo.

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
there are just too many alternative photos out there that even via free market, with everyone charging, you would still only get pennies. Or am I wrong?

Pennies? You are wrong.

Signed,

Matt Wallman


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Thierry,

I don't want to fight a battle......it is almost lost anyway. All I wanted to do is make some people aware that they can actually make money with the hobby....!!!!!

Vasco


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11378 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 11):
The photo in question is not rare but an unusual photo which I have sold quite a few times in the past to various clients...and it did pay my trip to Dubai and a couple of other things besides that.



View Large View Medium

Photo © Vasco Garcia



I remember the first time someone contacted me about using my photo (must have been around 1999).

Well, Vasco, I think that photo IS very special, and I'm curious as to what photo those guys were able to get for free so as to not bother working with you. I don't mean to say that someone shouldn't charge for their photos, just that you can't make someone charge for them. That photo of yours is valuable. But many people see the price of a Cadillac and then make the choice to get a used Dodge instead.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 12):
If you want to sell photos, then make them special and irreplaceable so that possible customers will want YOUR photo and not just ANY photo.

I agree. The photos that I've sold all had something unusual about them, or something that ties the photo to the buyer.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 13):

Matt Wallman

Just curious, how does Mr. Wallman make money off of side-on shots?



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Just curious, how does Mr. Wallman make money off of side-on shots?

Easy,

he charges for his photos.

Signed,

Chad Thomas


User currently offlineBeechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 41
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
we don't
need to do any business with you.

WE don´t need to do business with THEM!

Maybe someone should create a blacklist of those requests....

Denis



That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
User currently offlineRelic From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Hi guys
Now i think i am going to annoy alot of people here,but only last week i was approached on behalf of a very large airline regarding a book publication asking to use one of my photos.The proceeds of this book will be going to charity.Im not sure how much,but im not worried about that,its for charity.I was asked if i would be willing to give my photo for free,which i agreed providing i was acknowledged as the author of this photo in the publication.This was agreed.
Any other time i would have charged,but to me this is a maybe a one off chance to have something i have shot in a worldwide publication.I am still quite new to serious aircraft photography,and my 50 odd pics wont set the world alight judging by some of the superb pics that i see on Anet everyday.
Cheers
Andy


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4907 times:

Each to their own. I've had flights and other stuff from airlines which I consider to be far more useful than actual cash for pictures. I'm not a professional, nor am I 13 with a cheap Digital camera, but my gear was bought because it's my hobby and not with a view that I must make money from the hobby in order to finance it.

I'd rather someone gave me credit in a picture and didn't pay than demand recompense and never see my pictures used. I've had plenty of business from doing this and I am comfortable with it. I have to say that people who think they should charge for every picture request are maybe in the wrong environment. This site, and others like it, are primarily hobbyist sites, despite the many obviously professional and semi-professional people also using them.

As I said, it's each to their own and if people want to make a profit from every picture thats fine. But please do not denigrate those of us who do it for a hobby and who are pleased to simply have exposure rather than mega-bucks.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently onlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Quoting Relic (Reply 20):
Now i think i am going to annoy alot of people here,but only last week i was approached on behalf of a very large airline regarding a book publication asking to use one of my photos.The proceeds of this book will be going to charity.Im not sure how much,but im not worried about that,its for charity.I was asked if i would be willing to give my photo for free,which i agreed providing i was acknowledged as the author of this photo in the publication.This was agreed.
Any other time i would have charged,but to me this is a maybe a one off chance to have something i have shot in a worldwide publication.

I too was approached by what may be the same author for permission to use a historic shot, i.e. one that was taken 20 or so years ago (so that rules out the kids with digital cameras!). The author's royalties will go to charity but I'm not sure that that makes the whole enterprise a non-profit one, as a major aviation publisher is involved and I doubt they operate as a charity.

I'm going to seek more information before deciding, as I always make a distinction between hobby-type endeavours which are a labour of love, and commercial undertakings. It is not a question of money as far as I am concerned but I have always been of the view that since commercial organisations are in business and charge for their products or services, they should be prepared to pay for something which has a value to them, be it the work of a professional or an amateur photographer.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12570 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 5):
This is exactly the reason I'm getting out of wedding photography - there are too many hobbyists out there that will give away a wedding shoot for a couple hundred bucks just to buy a new lens. They don't seem to get that every time they give it away, they take meals off a pro's kitchen table.

They would seem to be financing their hobby, and they may even buy food with the couple of hundred bucks.

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy. I can't see it as anything other than supply and demand. These days it's a lot easier for almost anyone to produce reasonable shots, so Mr & Mrs Notveryrich are going to go with the cheapest option for their wedding photos. What are they going to get from the pro for 5-10 times the cost?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):
I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy.

Don't be afraid and I don't need any. Like I said, I'm out of it - one wedding left in November and I'm done. My gear will still get put to use in other photography genres that I love such as aviation and wildlife.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):
What are they going to get from the pro for 5-10 times the cost?

Experience? Consistency? Backup? I'll PM a longer answer to you since this is an aviation forum...

B


User currently offlineAccidentally From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4813 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm too damn scared to even get that far in my photography "career". I sold my D30 a couple years back, and just the other day bought a 40D...I'm just not looking forward to the hassles of photographing at my new home here airport KIND, so I havent been out yet. I need to meet up with some local spotters - but I guess this all really belongs in another thread.


Cory Crabtree - crab453 - Indianapolis - 2R2 - 1966 PA-32-260
User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

Yea Boi.

The way I see it: if you charge and they say no, you've gained nothing, but you've also lost nothing; you give away your work for free, you've lost a photograph, and you've gained nothing. You really have nothing to lose by doing so.

-Mike


25 Post contains images Speedbird128 : Hi Jorg, I received a query from a manufacturer that was involved in the construction of some of the wing and engine components of the very aircraft
26 Ptrjong : That is what usually happens. Not very polite, but they were polite enough to contact you. The ones that steal your photo don't contact you. Peter
27 Post contains images JRadier : Which is compensation as well. So you are not one of those that destroys the market .
28 Post contains images Walter2222 : I was also contacted a couple of week ago. I gave a rough cost indication. Then no feedback for a couple of days. Then I wrote an e-mail asking feedb
29 Eksath : I agree with Vasco. The problem is compounded by the fact that there is no fee structure that is commonly known. Most of the people who give it away a
30 JRadier : I think the customer should not be named to protect both your own interests and those of the customer. I think something like this could work: [photo
31 Post contains links Eksath : Sounds good. I will start a thread to that effect. here you go: Take Pride In What You Do II ..Post Your Work (by Eksath Sep 9 2007 in Aviation Photo
32 AKE0404AR : Suresh, quite an interesting approach to finally wake them up.......great idea! Vasco
33 Post contains images Skidmarks : Damn!! And I was cultivating a little mustache and investing heavily in Brylcreem!! Andy
34 Ghost77 : Thank you for replying to my email. You are the only person out of around 60 photographers who has refused free use of a photo for the book aimed at r
35 Dazed767 : I'm in the middle of a request right now, it's going to be about 3,000 copies for a free publication. Not sure what to charge (and the photo is my SXM
36 StealthZ : But what constitutes a "free publication"? Just because it is given to the reader for free does not always mean that there is no profit motive somewh
37 Dazed767 : Some eco magazine. Print size would be 2x3.
38 Post contains links and images Mirrodie : They are cheapskates pure and simple. Sorry to hear it Nick. They have a hard enough time undertstanding ATC directions at JFK, maybe they just don't
39 ZuluLima : Don't forget people, that the watermark feature is there for a reason. I haven't been able to upload anything yet, but when I do there will be "airlin
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