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Aviation Photography Forum Should Be Re-named....  
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Posted (6 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

By the amount of threads about screening, rejections, rejection help, pre-screening
why is it not called "The Pre, after, rejection screening help forum......"

VG.

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 5735 times:



Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):

Why make it so specific like that when it could just be called aviation photography like it is, then everything to do with aviation photography will be suited here.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineDerekF From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 12 hours ago) and read 5722 times:



Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
By the amount of threads about screening, rejections, rejection help, pre-screening
why is it not called "The Pre, after, rejection screening help forum......"

That's what it's for isn't it?

This is from the photo upload page:-

"Ask your fellow photographers for advice and constructive criticism in our photography forum. "

I've found the advice on here very helpful. Is their a problem with helping people out?



Whatever.......
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Here is a quick rundown of the last 2 weeks:

Rougly about 20 posts about pre-screening alone:

For a newbie who has zero pictures on here, I kind of understand this, but for a more or less"established" photographer to ask for pre-screening for standard shots, by now you should have an idea what a.net wants and what goes down the drain......

Quoting DerekF (Reply 2):
"Ask your fellow photographers for advice and constructive criticism in our photography forum. "

I second that and this is part of the forum, but lately it got a little out of hand.
This is just my personal opinion. I have always voiced my opinion over the years. Some people agree with me, some don't........

Vasco G.


User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 5669 times:
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Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 3):
I second that and this is part of the forum, but lately it got a little out of hand.
This is just my personal opinion. I have always voiced my opinion over the years. Some people agree with me, some don't........

Vasco,

Recently all photographers got acces to this forum. So the increased number of prescreening threads is a result of that.
I welcome them all, it helps them develop their skills and it helps the queue by making sure they put the best images in there.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 5641 times:



Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 3):
but lately it got a little out of hand.

that's an understatement...

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 4):
it helps them develop their skills and it helps the queue by making sure they put the best images in there.

..wouldn't it do the same thing with it's very own forum? Taking a close look, some appear to just be lazy.


User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 5628 times:

Why are there so many pre-screening posts? One reason is because the uploaders are afraid of rejections, and are taking things too seriously, especially the acceptance ratio, for instance. The rules are set and well written (hmmmm...) and I guess some people don't read them and proceed directly to the upload page and then the whole thing ('my photo was rejected, help me with the photo' etc.) starts.

KS/codeshare



How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2072 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 5595 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT



Quoting Codeshare (Reply 6):
The rules are set and well written (hmmmm...) and I guess some people don't read them and proceed directly to the upload page and then the whole thing ('my photo was rejected, help me with the photo' etc.) starts.

Of course, there's still the Illustrated guide which however most newer contributors don't know as there's no official link. So here's the unofficial one: http://www.planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm  Wink

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 5570 times:



Quoting Codeshare (Reply 6):
uploaders are afraid of rejections, and are taking things too seriously, especially the acceptance ratio,

Bingo!!!

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 7):
So here's the unofficial one: http://www.planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm

I like it a lot, would that be something to be incorporated into the upload page (still needs some work, but it is a very good start)

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 4):
Recently all photographers got acces to this forum. So the increased number of prescreening threads is a result of that.

ok.

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 4):
I welcome them all

I do too

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 4):
it helps them develop their skills and it helps the queue by making sure they put the best images in there.

As far as I see it, most of the questions are basic photography and editing stuff.
Why not take the "MasterClass thing" a step further. Show sample images (unedited - edited with the exact steps call it A.net Tutorial) so newbies and oldies can have a look at them and can learn from there!

I do too struggle a lot of times and a.net has made me a better PS guy over the years, so I am pretty certain, if implemented, I'd check it out too.

I am sure everyone could benefit from it!

Vasco


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3767 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

I guess it's been said often enough, but to bring it up again......Imho the masterclass threads should be STICKIES in the photography forum......so newcomers can be directed to these at the very first point....

Florian



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 8):
Why not take the "MasterClass thing" a step further. Show sample images (unedited - edited with the exact steps call it A.net Tutorial)

I have/had made a document a while ago and Tim made one on slide scanning, but back in the Johan days, that never made it on-line. Perhaps with the new management we can get that ball rolling again.

Ed

[Edited 2008-01-06 10:36:17]

User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 5557 times:
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Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
I guess it's been said often enough, but to bring it up again......Imho the masterclass threads should be STICKIES in the photography forum......so newcomers can be directed to these at the very first point....

We should have a masterclass section soon. We have something else planned that may greatly help people starting out here!

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

...and perhaps Thierry's guide should be more a.net official, it is in a way, what I mean is more 'exposed' to the public. I would add to it by putting in comments from the screeners themselves. For example concerning quality rejections - what are the most common mistakes and how to 'locate' them. Motiv is a totally different book  devil 

KS/codeshare



How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Codeshare (Reply 6):
Why are there so many pre-screening posts? One reason is because the uploaders are afraid of rejections, and are taking things too seriously, especially the acceptance ratio, for instance. The rules are set and well written (hmmmm...) and I guess some people don't read them and proceed directly to the upload page and then the whole thing ('my photo was rejected, help me with the photo' etc.) starts.

Or some of us are looking for help to a problem that has developed. I have been guilty of posting a prescreening thread or two lately, but that's because seemingly out of nowhere I started developing problems that I never really had before. Even those of us that think we know the rules/standards and cruise along just fine for a while find a bump in the road and need a place to ask for input to help get it straightened out. You do things long enough and often enough, sometimes you start developing bad habits and it takes some outside eyes to pick up on the problem.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBaldurSveins From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

I am one of the so called "oldies" that have been around for a long time. I have myself been "guilty" of asking for help on prescreening. I am 64 years old and my eyesight was never too good and has not improved and this makes me vary of missing things like spots, borders, softness and others. Therefore it is invaluable for me to be able to ask the good friends on here for a little help.
I have uploaded photos that to my sight have been ok ( and of course a few that never should have been uploaded in the condition they were) and in most cases I should have asked for opinions. I have in many cases looked at some of my rejections and struggled to find the faults, like small dustspots and others.
I would not object to having a special forum for these prescreening posts, but see no pressing reason for splitting up this forum.
Just my little bit.

Baldur Sveinsson


User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 5460 times:
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Quoting BaldurSveins (Reply 14):
I have myself been "guilty" of asking for help on prescreening.

No need to feel guilty baldur! Better to ask for help than to get rejection for things you miss yourself.

Don't think it's a good idea to split the forum, there aren't that many posts as it is (compared to the bigger forums).

The main reason why we gave every photog a forum account was so they could come here and be assisted by the vast body of knowledge on this forum. As screeners we'd like to help everyone out personally but there really is not enough time. On the forum there's always someone willing to help.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

Quoting BaldurSveins (Reply 14):
I have myself been "guilty" of asking for help

There is no real need to feel "guilty" just because someone has asked the community for help.

I do it too, once in a blue moon, but what kind of annoys me is the following question:

Is this good enough, will it make it, etc....you get the idea.

If you have a guideline, tutorial or whatever you want to call it, to refer to and compare your image, you get a pretty good idea what a.net is looking for. It can save a lot of time, since right now you might answer the same question over and over again.

There are some out here, like Jeff mentioned, who are just lazy.....

It all may sound kind of negative, but I want to turn it into a positive thread, come up with suggestions how we can help and maybe make the site ever better....

I call this constructive critisism


Vasco

[Edited 2008-01-06 13:52:47]

[Edited 2008-01-06 13:54:26]

User currently offlineTweetDriver From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

Well this kind of goes in the same direction I was asking about the other day...

I will refrain from uploading in the future, since it seems to be to much of a niusance.

Regards, Henk


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 5414 times:



Quoting TweetDriver (Reply 17):
Well this kind of goes in the same direction I was asking about the other day...

No it does not!

Quoting TweetDriver (Reply 17):
I will refrain from uploading in the future, since it seems to be to much of a niusance.

If a simple conversation keeps you away from uploading, I feel sorry for you!


User currently offlineTweetDriver From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

No this and some other simple conversations where people are telling others tthey have no clue about photography and cause they are new should wait at least about 5 years before beeing taken seriously.
At least that is the feeling I get from some people telling others about things.

So why should I upload, if I have no clue anyways and do not feel wellcome?

[Edited 2008-01-06 14:26:52]

User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 5392 times:



Quoting TweetDriver (Reply 19):

So why should I upload, if I have no clue anyways and do not feel wellcome?

If I hadn't looked at your profile I would say you are 14 or 15. Why the attitude?
This is not personal, just relax and take it easy.

Quoting TweetDriver (Reply 19):
where people are telling others they have no clue about photography

I got news for you, just browse thru the forum and you will see lot's of threads that will tell you that some actually don't even know what the f-stop means or just lacking basic photography skills. Is it bad no, we all have started somewhere!

One more thing, photography is one thing, editing is another and a whole different ballgame!

Vasco


User currently offlineCalgaryBill From Canada, joined May 2006, 686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 5367 times:



Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 20):
One more thing, photography is one thing, editing is another and a whole different ballgame!

I agree with Vasco. This isn't negative at all, it's just that pre-screening for A.net is taking up half or more of the thread these days. Just before posting this response I counted 14 out of the top 25 threads are pre-screening or rejection topics.

Absolutely, people should have a place to ask for pre-screening, to rant about their (most certainly unwarranted) rejections, and ask for critiques. But those of us who want to talk about lenses, good places to shoot, the hottest new camera, the never ending Nikon vs Canon wars, etc, should not have to wade through tons of the other threads. That single subject alone is taking up more than enough space to warrant its own forum.

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 15):
Don't think it's a good idea to split the forum, there aren't that many posts as it is (compared to the bigger forums).

First off Tim, thank you for spending so much time on the forums trying to help out! There may not be that many posts in total, but critique threads alone are taking over the forum and making it difficult to get to non-critiquing related discussions.

Quoting TweetDriver (Reply 19):
So why should I upload, if I have no clue anyways and do not feel wellcome?

As mentioned in your other thread, it was about people slagging other photographers, not about newbies being unwelcome. Everyone is welcome to post pictures and ask for help, but I thought that was cleared up in your thread.

B


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5269 times:



Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 21):
I agree with Vasco. This isn't negative at all, it's just that pre-screening for A.net is taking up half or more of the thread these days. Just before posting this response I counted 14 out of the top 25 threads are pre-screening or rejection topics.

Good to know that I am not the only one who has noticed it.....thanks for participating Bill.

Vasco


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5251 times:
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I get this feeling that some of the more seasoned/experienced photographers find such threads to be an annoyance. So, tell me...if we put pre-screening threads in a special place out of the way of those who cannot be bothered by such threads, then where will the requested help and pre-screening come from? I suspect a forum for pre-screening would not only have very little activity, but what little activity it would see would be thread starting without a whole lot of replying/help.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBoeingfreak From Germany, joined May 2005, 398 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

I have noticed that increase of prescreening-threads as well and while I have nothing against newbies asking for rejection help or prescreening, I'm against more experienced photographers (couple of hundered shots online already) that start a new thread for every side-on shot in sunny conditions and ask "Will it get accepted?". Currently there is at least one "more experienced"photographer that has started plenty of these threads and I'm not sure if you have the same person in mind as the one I have Vasco, but I'm getting annoyed by his threads as well.

But, IMO you should have contacted the posters of the threads that annoy you via personal message instead of starting a thread making those feel bad that have asked for help in the past weeks.

Florian


25 Post contains images INNflight : /long thread on I don't think this thread exists because Vasco is annoyed by postings done by users who seek constructive help here at all. He's never
26 Whisperjet : Hi, on the one hand you say that many people just do not read FAQs and all these things and on the other hand you're suggesting a page with examples o
27 JeffM : Bingo....If you don't read the rules, what makes you think they will go look at the "special page"... Yup.
28 TimdeGroot : A page with examples would be good, but yes there will always be people who won't bother to read any of the help sections. That's why we have A330s u
29 INNflight : A valid point, however I was referring to the endless FAQ before the upload page, which would take you half an hour to read through (probably more) f
30 Boeingfreak : Exactly, but that could be avoided with an error message: "Sorry, your picture is too large, please resize it." (something like that...) instead of t
31 Post contains images Psych : I didn't write it Flo - honest . I look forward to that, Tim, and other developments. I would also love to see Thierry's work (fine tuned if necessar
32 AKE0404AR : A few things have bothered me in the past few weeks. The issue you are referring to may have been the trigger to finally put it into words. It just g
33 DerekF : You might care if you could only upload 2 or 5 photos at a time though. If that was true then those with "x" photos would have 100% acceptance. Does
34 AKE0404AR : I said: you should have, this is not a guarantee No, not really, since I am uploading 2-5 shots at a time anyway The system is fine as it is, but a l
35 DerekF : Exactly , which is why sometimes people ask for advice. I'm still not sure I understand the problem with that. Personally I don't use the forum for p
36 Post contains images Lennymuir : Derek, can't you see what Vasco is saying? Vasco >> Aviation photography (taking pictures of aeroplanes) and digital editing to get pictures accepted
37 JakTrax : I see a lot of valid points on both sides here, however this is my take: I have been uploading to this site since February last year (2007) so I guess
38 JakTrax : Something I forgot to mention........ The photography forum is for just that, and although threads asking for advice fall into that category, to be ho
39 DerekF : Clearly not! I thought the original thread was started about about ALL rejection, pre-screening posts. Never mind eh? I admire the new photogs for ev
40 IL76 : Starting out here is like starting at a new job. Slowly work your way in. Don't start out by immediately asking a thousand things, but read all docume
41 JakTrax : Derek, this is certainly not about new photographers being unwelcome - I am still pretty new myself but I always feel welcome here, and always get goo
42 Post contains images AKE0404AR :
43 Silver1SWA : Well, as someone with 148 photos in the DB (realistically 85 or so since everything else was accepted in 1999), I guess that makes me guilty and I can
44 AKE0404AR : even after almost 8 years of uploading, I have these problems......
45 Post contains links Jorge1812 : In my eyes it's no problem to ask some people here for pre-screening, but why upload pics and show them here to get some help while "real screeners" l
46 Dvincent : I have to agree this has gotten out of hand a bit lately. I rarely post in here about rejections or prescreens (I had two all of last month) and I hav
47 JakTrax : Indeed. If the only avenue left is to ask fellow photog's then that's absolutely fine, as I and many others have said. This is sensible use of the fo
48 Post contains images RCoulter : To be honest the one thing I like about the "other site" is they have a dedicated post for pre-screening. If A.net had something like that it may help
49 JakTrax : Same with everyone but I think the point here is that the most capable person of creating that chance is yourself. It's your photo and it's your edit
50 Post contains images USAir_757 : Funny I came over this thread right as I was thinking the exact same thing Vasco. It seems that since film has for the most part been retired around t
51 StealthZ : Unique to the photo forum as well, it neither retains the number of threads that more popular threads such as Civ Av, and not the longevity of Mil/Av
52 AKE0404AR : By the amount of threads about screening, rejections, rejection help, pre-screening why is it not called "The Pre, after, rejection screening help for
53 TimdeGroot : Hi vasco Have to agree some people are not really getting it. We'll try to lay down some more rules. Tim
54 Maiznblu_757 : No more rules, Timmy, I think there are enough.
55 Lennymuir : Yup, no more rules please... The problem is in the rejection e-mails. They advise to come here for help. Perhaps it's time to re-direct the 'helpline'
56 TimdeGroot : I'm not saying people can't come here and ask for help about rejections. But have to agree with vasco that the pre-screening threads are getting out o
57 ThierryD : Chad and Gerry are right, we don't need more rules. We only need to apply the existing ones consistently and for the rest help uploading people on an
58 Post contains images TimdeGroot : Because we're working on our own guide. See, we do listen So don't accuse me of being anti-change before you know the facts Thierry. Also I was talki
59 StealthZ : That's fine but Thierry has put a lot of work into his IGRR , work that I feel was done with the best interests of the site in mind. What is with thi
60 TimdeGroot : For the same reason we do not let everyone screen pictures. Not meaning to deny thierry's effort but the screeners are most familiar with the rules an
61 Jorge1812 : With the many pre-screen threads everyone is able to "screen" pics at the moment. Long time ago I stopped reading and posting in CivAv forum because
62 JakTrax : It seems to me to be denying Thierry's work a little - I'm sure you could work with him here. If the whole 'illustrated guide to rejection reasons' is
63 ThierryD : Not meaning to be disrespectful Tim but HOW could I have known; I've asked for screener's support since the guide went online and apart from some hel
64 Sulman : I respect that English is not your first language, so I may have misunderstood, but to me that reads like a slap to the face.
65 Post contains images TimdeGroot : Maybe because you left the out Thierry I asked for your input privately, I don't want your effort to be for nothing and I'm happy to accept your sugg
66 AKE0404AR : Tim, let me ask you this.....what is the big secret behind "the screeners IGRR" Wouldn't it make sense to share it at a stage where some changes / fee
67 Javibi : Even if I am guilty of asking advice about some of my rejections from time to time, I do vote for a separate forum, as the number of such threads in
68 TimdeGroot : No Big secret but it's still in an early phase so time for feedback will come later Tim
69 AKE0404AR : Everyone is guilty including me, but from are exactly the two or three important words here....!!! V.
70 Post contains images JakTrax :
71 AKE0404AR : any date yet?
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